From DEs to LEDs

[nfhiggs]

A few percent more than 3000k, which is least efficient of all the whites, except 2700k if u can find them. The higher the CCT, the more lumens output.

Lumens is not the same as photon count (uMols or PPF). Lumens value is heavily biased toward green light. A light can have a higher lumen value but lower photon count if it has a lot of green in it. Plants use photons not lumens. You simply cannot really compare the lumen values of different CCT spectrums.

 

[wietefras]

Regardless of what the "experts" theorize, the so-called inefficient HPS spectrum has been the standard grow spectrum for decades is because it works. We should stop trying to dictate what nature needs and start understanding why it works and accept reality.

Well that is EXACTLY what I said and indeed what researchers have been investigating. They conclude that "quality of spectrum" has little to no impact. Not theorizing like you do though, but cold hard facts.

BTW your whole rant about high CRI is nothing but baseless assumptions. Already discredited by actual research done. It's really funny how people can preach that we shouldn't assume which spectrum is more efficient and then in one breath go on to pretend one spectrum is more efficient than others. Practice what you preach.

 

[hybridway2]

Well that is EXACTLY what I said and indeed what researchers have been investigating. They conclude that "quality of spectrum" has little to no impact. Not theorizing like you do though, but cold hard facts.

BTW your whole rant about high CRI is nothing but baseless assumptions. Already discredited by actual research done. It's really funny how people can preach that we shouldn't assume which spectrum is more efficient and then in one breath go on to pretend one spectrum is more efficient than others. Practice what you preach.

If one spectrum grows/flowers better then the other then indeed it is more efficient at what it's job is no matter the data #'s & theories.
Funny how you just spun his words around to be something he didn't say w/ such authority. lol! And that's exactly why no true info can be passed around here & why people don't trust forum info.

 

[hybridway2]

A few percent more than 3000k, which is least efficient of all the whites, except 2700k if u can find them. The higher the CCT, the more lumens output. The enhanced white is basically a blurple-white hybrid spectrum that is more efficient than blurple in ppfd/w and overall growth results if tuned properly with the correct wavelengths. To achieve the same ppfd with the blurple, it would take more wattage. Red also sheds it's intensity much quicker than the blue/green in whites as distance increase, resulting in more larf towards the bottom and less overall yield. Efficiency should be measured by results or net yield and quality, not academic comparisons that do not take other factors into consideration. Net photons hitting the canopy is what grows plants. Efficiency is to deliver as much photons to the canopy at the least amount of wattage as possible and net yield/w.

This is why LED still have a black-eye to many. The majority of LED companies lie due to ignorance or inferior products unfortunately. It produces a lot less photons and intensity watt for watt. Photon for photon it might be more efficient than HPS, but not an enhanced white spectrum since it also hits the par peaks(blue/red) like blurple, but has the penetrative advantage of green. Green at high intensity can pretty much replace reds proven by the "inefficient" HPS spectrum.



Regardless of what the "experts" theorize, the so-called inefficient HPS spectrum has been the standard grow spectrum for decades is because it works. We should stop trying to dictate what nature needs and start understanding why it works and accept reality.



Yelp, imagine if it was any of resident RIU grow experts figured this out instead of Amare. It would be embraced and glorified instead of ignorant hatred and prejudice. These idiots just don't get it unless it's convenient.




Precisely... Most prefer to rely on hypothetical BS to sound knowledgeable vs. investing the time and resource to test their theories. Actually, our girls prefer more blues that will increase resin production and shorten flowering time.

And you, see what I have to deal w/ when you pop up telling truths n shit. Then your gone, back to growing mad bomb w/ your Amares n I'm here listening to guys like that spin everything around so they can look like they saved the day.
Since "14" baby, we know the truth.

 

[wietefras]

If one spectrum grows/flowers better then the other then indeed it is more efficient at what it's job is no matter the data #'s & theories.

Thing is, there is no reliable evidence that any spectrum really is "the best". At best there is some anecdotal evidence showing one spectrum is slightly better than one or more others and then there is other anecdotal evidence showing completely different results.

I'm here listening to guys like that spin everything around so they can look like they saved the day.
Since "14" baby, we know the truth.

You sure sound like someone who spins everything around so you can pretend you saved the day ...

 

[monkeychief]

Lumens is not the same as photon count (uMols or PPF). Lumens value is heavily biased toward green light. A light can have a higher lumen value but lower photon count if it has a lot of green in it. Plants use photons not lumens. You simply cannot really compare the lumen values of different CCT spectrums.

Si, but it gives you an idea of the light's efficiency and output. As previously stated, green at high intensity can replace red. A fact proven by the "inefficient" HPS, according to the "experts", test and research often referred to as facts. If you can accept the HPS is effective at growing cannabis, then you have to try to understand and accept on how and why it works.

Well that is EXACTLY what I said and indeed what researchers have been investigating. They conclude that "quality of spectrum" has little to no impact. Not theorizing like you do though, but cold hard facts.

BTW your whole rant about high CRI is nothing but baseless assumptions. Already discredited by actual research done. It's really funny how people can preach that we shouldn't assume which spectrum is more efficient and then in one breath go on to pretend one spectrum is more efficient than others. Practice what you preach.

Well that is EXACTLY what I said and indeed what researchers have been investigating. They conclude that "quality of spectrum" has little to no impact. Not theorizing like you do though, but cold hard facts.

You actually believe this nonsense? Hope others do not based their lighting purchase decisions on these misguided facts . If the "quality of spectrum" has little or no impact then why did the original "efficient" dual 440/630nm or 470/660nm blurple spectrum failed so miserably hence why they started adding whites to fill in the spectrum? Also, if this is true, why did you mentioned previously that the HPS spectrum was "inefficient"? Again, you're basing your assumptions on misinterpreted and generic "research"as "facts".

I only speak what I have personally experience testing most of these theories, because I got was tired of being disappointed by believing these test and research you referred to as facts. It's obvious some of us unfortunately rely on other's "research and tests" rather than investing the resource and time confirming these so-called "facts". Was the testing you referred to were exclusively on our girls? If not, then I highly recommend you do a side by side with blurple, enhance white and HPS personally and draw your own conclusion on which is the best and most efficient growing tweed. Even Fluence switched from blurple to enhanced white. Don't always believe and base your conclusions on what you read without testing it yourself. The world is not flat just because others say it is. Good luck, no point in carrying this conversation any further since you already know the "facts".

 

[nfhiggs]

Si, but it gives you an idea of the light's efficiency and output.

No, it REALLY DOESN'T. Not with different CCT's. If you want to compare different luminaires of similar CCT spectrums, then its a useful yardstick. But because of the strong green bias of Lumen measurement, "a little (green light) goes a long way", and pushes the lumen value much higher than it pushes the PPF or PAR value. So a higher CCT luminaire may look more efficient in terms of lumens per watt, but may actually have a lower photon count in uMols/s.

If you want to compare luminaire efficiency with an accuracy of better than 10%, you have to compare uMol/s output, not lumens.

 

[hybridway2]

Thing is, there is no reliable evidence that any spectrum really is "the best". At best there is some anecdotal evidence showing one spectrum is slightly better than one or more others and then there is other anecdotal evidence showing completely different results.

You sure sound like someone who spins everything around so you can pretend you saved the day ...

There's certainly plenty of threads on various forum w/ side by sides showing one spectrum outperforming another by a considerable amount.

 

[wietefras]

The world is not flat just because others say it is. Good luck, no point in carrying this conversation any further since you already know the "facts".

It's hilarious how you, yet again, do the exact thing which you accuse me of. You provide no facts other than your opinion.

There's certainly plenty of threads on various forum w/ side by sides showing one spectrum outperforming another by a considerable amount.

Yes and then others showing the opposite. A hobby grower doing a side-by side is anecdotal anyway. There are way to many variables involved.

Is it possible that you get brain damage from using Amare fixtures or something? You two seem to have the same screw loose.

So I'll just put you guys on ignore. No sense wasting my time on a couple of corporate shills.

 

[OLD MOTHER SATIVA]

are you adding a few 100 ppms of calcium and magnesium to the fert mix..?

thats all i needed to not have the uglies appear

that and correct ph..anything between a bit below 5.5 and 6 ..i go for 5.6

its the cal/mag

i use dry mixable calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate

try 200 ppms and 100 ppms respectively then work down

 

[monkeychief]

No, it REALLY DOESN'T. Not with different CCT's. If you want to compare different luminaires of similar CCT spectrum then its a useful yardstick. But because of the strong green bias of Lumen measurement, "a little (green light) goes a long way", and pushes the lumen value much higher than it pushes the PPF or PAR value. So a higher CCT luminaire may look more efficient in terms of lumens per watt, but may actually have a lower photon count in uMols/s.

If you want to compare luminaire efficiency with an accuracy of better than 10%, you have to compare uMol/s output, not lumens.

Again, I agree with what you're saying, but I was referring to a white spectrum at high intensity that green plays a major role in the spectrum efficiency and overall results. This is why HID also refers to lumens. Was not referring to comparison. I think we beat this one up pretty bad already. It's time to let it die in peace. Cheers!

 

[greengrassgrower1]

I like your style! are there drainage holes in the bottom of the buckets? how much runoff? where does it go?

Not a lot.. It just floods the floor and drys out in between waterings..

 

[greengrassgrower1]

ive been running into issues like no other this round in coco. still chugging along but they are not looking the greatest at the moment. i saw your recipe for your jacks and its pretty close to what i am running. if your nutes are like mine they stay stable as hell once mixed? what are you keeping your ph at? i think i had mine too low at the beginning and the cal/mag were just out of reach and they started looking shitty. at first i thought it was a burn so i flushed. bad move lol. they got insanely worse very quickly. now ive been foliar feeding cal edta and epsom to try and bring them back. seems to be working slowly i just dont know if im doing something else wrong too or if theyre getting better and its just too hard to tell with the old damaged growth

Damn DH sorry to hear your still having issues.. Are you still doing PPK? My nutes do stay stable as hell, and i like my PH 6.0 to 6.2..

I spent 4hrs yesterday cleaning up and removing branches as my girls fucking exploded.. I vegged and extra week to make up for the 4 plants i removed in the beginning. Bad idea, live and learn.. More pics coming.

 

[Ryante55]

Damn DH sorry to hear your still having issues.. Are you still doing PPK? My nutes do stay stable as hell, and i like my PH 6.0 to 6.2..

I spent 4hrs yesterday cleaning up and removing branches as my girls fucking exploded.. I vegged and extra week to make up for the 4 plants i removed in the beginning. Bad idea, live and learn.. More pics coming.

I did the same shit went from 12 to 9 plants was still a little too much with the 16 day veg. Now I'm moving to 6 per 4x4 I was going to give it an extra week veg but after hearing this they are just getting the 2 weeks. I love jacks nutes all the organic growers I know always comment on how good my nug tastes compared to their organic nug.

 

[DesertHydro]

Damn DH sorry to hear your still having issues.. Are you still doing PPK? My nutes do stay stable as hell, and i like my PH 6.0 to 6.2..

I spent 4hrs yesterday cleaning up and removing branches as my girls fucking exploded.. I vegged and extra week to make up for the 4 plants i removed in the beginning. Bad idea, live and learn.. More pics coming.

im getting back on track finally! its been bad luck after bad luck lately. tried out some coco trying to see if simplifying was the answer but i got a bad batch of coco that was salty as hell and caused lockout. took me a while to figure out what the hell was going on. first is lightened the feed and they got worse so i stepped the food up. still got worse. someone told me to check the runoff and it was sky high. been flushing every few days pretty heavy and they have absolutely done a 180. new healthy green growth on all plants. went through and defoliated and removed all the damaged stuff i could get to yesterday. today im gonna go through and lollipop. these are getting flowered in about a week. ive been too ashamed to post pics until they recovered lol. it got bad there for a while and i was questioning all my life choices lol. at least this happened in veg and not flower! from now on i am logging my ph/ppm in and out on a weekly basis to look for trends.

 

[DesertHydro]

oh and that ppk run was a flop because i overwatered from the get go right after transplant causing issues. got it figured out. that room is gonna EXPLODE here in a few weeks. got clones started for the next run. should have started them a month ago but trying to stick to the numbers

 

[ANC]

are you adding a few 100 ppms of calcium and magnesium to the fert mix..?

thats all i needed to not have the uglies appear

that and correct ph..anything between a bit below 5.5 and 6 ..i go for 5.6

its the cal/mag

i use dry mixable calcium nitrate and magnesium nitrate

try 200 ppms and 100 ppms respectively then work down

I had to back off from 200 to about 80. the plants still look a tiny bit shy on Mg but no more calcium problems.

 

[Ryante55]

im getting back on track finally! its been bad luck after bad luck lately. tried out some coco trying to see if simplifying was the answer but i got a bad batch of coco that was salty as hell and caused lockout. took me a while to figure out what the hell was going on. first is lightened the feed and they got worse so i stepped the food up. still got worse. someone told me to check the runoff and it was sky high. been flushing every few days pretty heavy and they have absolutely done a 180. new healthy green growth on all plants. went through and defoliated and removed all the damaged stuff i could get to yesterday. today im gonna go through and lollipop. these are getting flowered in about a week. ive been too ashamed to post pics until they recovered lol. it got bad there for a while and i was questioning all my life choices lol. at least this happened in veg and not flower! from now on i am logging my ph/ppm in and out on a weekly basis to look for trends.

Jacks is the simplest I dip my clones in full strength jacks 321 it doesn't burn them and the same ratio gets you to the end of flower.

 

[greengrassgrower1]

Dilly Dilly,

Day 13

Quick pics of the room.. Things are going as planned.. lol 1st time running this strain its Buff #2 she was created and found by Okie and Bean.. i have 10 of them. I Love them Boys always making new heat!. I also ended up with a Pieface and Ultavoilance.. They are huge so each of them got a corner spot.. A lot of folks say u get purple stems when u using LEDs?? Not for me..

 

[calitrees916]

Bean back in the house!!! Lol
How are the babes doing over there?? Look good from the pics. I still trying to fill these nets so I can flip. It's coming real soon tho