kristoffolese
Well-Known Member
Yah- in fact, even those that I gave 2 weeks veg time to were much reduced, quality-wise. Gas is right- wait at least until you see female “pre-flowers” in veg before flipping to 12/12.
Swami Seeds
- Thread starter Ace Yonder
- Start date
kristoffolese
Well-Known Member
Ugh... honestly man, its a pretty drama filled story... short version, I got fu#*ing robbed by my own blood, out of a 14 week “speed in weed-form” pheno that was/is my absolute FAV pheno of all 3 gardens.
Basics- Ran 3 garden, 3 dif ways. They LOOOVED the greenhouse with the sunlight/artificial lighting mix & coots mix soil. Grow 2 was mainl hydro, the third was an apt grow inside of 2 tents. Flowered from seed due to height fears... but yah, dont go 12/12 from seed w/the NL5haze, imo. Or even 2 weeks veg.
Anyway, to be more specific, I/we painstakingly take 1-2 cuts off of EVERY plant before flippin’ the switch, with the obvious exception being the tent runs, flowered from seed. The plan was to re-veg any keepers, but it turned out not to be an issue. Anyway, once you have your keeper(s) selected, chuck or give away all the other clones who’s momma didnt make the cut. I use a simple numbering/labeling system to keep em all straight. Its kind of a bitch, but once you have your keeper selected, u just need to bush out the keeper clone(s) a bit, then start clipping your clones Then youre golden
kristoffolese
Well-Known Member
If that was too confusing- The clone(s) I take off of a keeper before flipping to 12/12, become the “momma” for future generations. I just take cuttings off of EVERYTHING I send into flower, because I dont KNOW what will be a keeper or not, until I can see em flower, and finish out.Ugh... honestly man, its a pretty drama filled story... short version, I got fu#*ing robbed by my own blood, out of a 14 week “speed in weed-form” pheno that was/is my absolute FAV pheno of all 3 gardens.
Basics- Ran 3 garden, 3 dif ways. They LOOOVED the greenhouse with the sunlight/artificial lighting mix & coots mix soil. Grow 2 was mainl hydro, the third was an apt grow inside of 2 tents. Flowered from seed due to height fears... but yah, dont go 12/12 from seed w/the NL5haze, imo. Or even 2 weeks veg.
Anyway, to be more specific, I/we painstakingly take 1-2 cuts off of EVERY plant before flippin’ the switch, with the obvious exception being the tent runs, flowered from seed. The plan was to re-veg any keepers, but it turned out not to be an issue. Anyway, once you have your keeper(s) selected, chuck or give away all the other clones who’s momma didnt make the cut. I use a simple numbering/labeling system to keep em all straight. Its kind of a bitch, but once you have your keeper selected, u just need to bush out the keeper clone(s) a bit, then start clipping your clones Then youre golden
kona gold
Well-Known Member
Thanks for sharing your experience and what you have learned. Always appreciated.Ugh... honestly man, its a pretty drama filled story... short version, I got fu#*ing robbed by my own blood, out of a 14 week “speed in weed-form” pheno that was/is my absolute FAV pheno of all 3 gardens.
Basics- Ran 3 garden, 3 dif ways. They LOOOVED the greenhouse with the sunlight/artificial lighting mix & coots mix soil. Grow 2 was mainl hydro, the third was an apt grow inside of 2 tents. Flowered from seed due to height fears... but yah, dont go 12/12 from seed w/the NL5haze, imo. Or even 2 weeks veg.
Anyway, to be more specific, I/we painstakingly take 1-2 cuts off of EVERY plant before flippin’ the switch, with the obvious exception being the tent runs, flowered from seed. The plan was to re-veg any keepers, but it turned out not to be an issue. Anyway, once you have your keeper(s) selected, chuck or give away all the other clones who’s momma didnt make the cut. I use a simple numbering/labeling system to keep em all straight. Its kind of a bitch, but once you have your keeper selected, u just need to bush out the keeper clone(s) a bit, then start clipping your clones Then youre golden
I did sex them first. They were a little under a foot when sexed. But it was just a sample run, and needed a good male for another project.
But they don't stretch much at that size. Could definitely see the Northern lights in crystal production and depth of green the plants exhibit. Nice bright green buds.
The potency is in there, strong and long, and all over. Bordering on the edge sometimes!
So I am satisfied with the high, just need a stronger flavor.
But that's where I get to have my influence on these genetics in future generations.
Pikespeakbud
Active Member
Nugs1
Well-Known Member
I'm doing a run of Nigerian Sunshine, The yogi and V Shiva. only a couple of each.
The seeds popped at a 80% rate. I normally have a better pop rate but I'm not complaining, I think thats still good.
Each strain is strong, but there were a few different pheno's that showed. The Yogi had 1 out of 6 that had some mutated leaf structures that came out about 3-4th node but then cleared up after that, the Shiva seemed to be a little indica leaning short and bushy. 1 of the shiva 5 had leaves that weren't really growing in correctly. Not mutated just much shorted than the other side, but otherwise healthy. The N Sunshine seems to all be healthy/stable, had one (now know it was a male) that was stronger looking and taller than the rest, he was also a little more sensitive to the nutrient levels than the others.
Overall the veg stage was exactly 4 weeks from seed and they grew well, they are finishing 2 week of flower now some are showing sex quicker than others.
When rubbing the stems-
The Yogi has a fuelly diesel smell
Nigerian Sunshine has a real skunky smell to it
The V shiva has a super fruity smell, reminds me of the old fruit stripe gum
I know this may not be the place for all this info but its not a full grow journal type entry. Just haven't seen much about about these strains so I wanted to put it out there.
Edit for delivery time- Got it on the east coast in about 5 days, go here quicker than I expected.
The seeds popped at a 80% rate. I normally have a better pop rate but I'm not complaining, I think thats still good.
Each strain is strong, but there were a few different pheno's that showed. The Yogi had 1 out of 6 that had some mutated leaf structures that came out about 3-4th node but then cleared up after that, the Shiva seemed to be a little indica leaning short and bushy. 1 of the shiva 5 had leaves that weren't really growing in correctly. Not mutated just much shorted than the other side, but otherwise healthy. The N Sunshine seems to all be healthy/stable, had one (now know it was a male) that was stronger looking and taller than the rest, he was also a little more sensitive to the nutrient levels than the others.
Overall the veg stage was exactly 4 weeks from seed and they grew well, they are finishing 2 week of flower now some are showing sex quicker than others.
When rubbing the stems-
The Yogi has a fuelly diesel smell
Nigerian Sunshine has a real skunky smell to it
The V shiva has a super fruity smell, reminds me of the old fruit stripe gum
I know this may not be the place for all this info but its not a full grow journal type entry. Just haven't seen much about about these strains so I wanted to put it out there.
Edit for delivery time- Got it on the east coast in about 5 days, go here quicker than I expected.
jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
I hope mine comes in a week, the old lady is out of town and she gets back in around 10 days, she'll kick my ass if she sees I've ordered more seeds!
InfiniteDreams
Active Member
Is Nigerian Sunshine back in stock?
It's on my wishlist along with the Spring RKS release (hope that's still happening).
It's on my wishlist along with the Spring RKS release (hope that's still happening).
Nugs1
Well-Known Member
Dunno, I got mine just before Christmas. Try shooting the guy an email and asking.
jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
This is the list as of Feb, 13
Here is the active list.
NEW***
Limited availability on these following 4 types:
The One x Pakistani/Chocolate Thai $200
The One/Panama x Pakistani/Chocolate Thai $250
The One x Tribal African (Pweto village x Transkie) $300
Tribal African x Punto Rojo $100
Recent additions:
The One x Punto Rojo $100
Mazar-I-Shariff x Punto Rojo $100
(Blue Orca x The Black/NL5haze) x Punto Rojo aka 'Bliss' $100
Blue Orca x Punto Rojo $100
Purple Zebra x Punto Rojo $100
Blue Orca x 85 Humboldt Roadkill Skunk/Uruapan $100
The One x 85 Humboldt RKS/Uruapan $100
Cherry Bomb 79 Muai x 85RKS/Uruapan 100
Purple Zebra x 85RKS/ Uruapan$100
Mazar/Guerrero x 85RKS/Uruapan $100
Nigerian Sunshine x Punto Rojo $80
More....
Blue Orca Haze 100
Blue Orca Haze x (Vietnam Black x The One/Panama) 100
Blue Orca Haze x (Neville's Haze/Malawi x a5haze/Thai) 100
Blue Orca x (The Black x 91 NL#5/Neville's Haze) aka 'Bliss' 100
Blue Orca x (Vietnam Black x The One/Panama) 100
Mr. GreenGenes Cherry Bomb 1979 Maui Wowie IBL 80
(Kali Mist x Burmese/Cherry Bomb) x Mazar-I-Shariff/Guerrero aka 'V Shiva' 80
Mazar-I-Shariff x Pakistan Chitral Kush 80
Mazar-I-Shariff x Punto Rojo 100
Mazar-I-Shariff x Guerrero 80
Mazar-I-Shariff x Nl5haze F2 $100
NL#5 x Haze F5 100
Nigerian Blue Haze (Nigerian Blue x NL5haze 80
Nigerian Sunshine x (Nigerian Sunshine x Blue Mystic/PPP) 80
The One x Pakistan Chitral Kush 100
The One x (The Black x 91 NL#5/ Haze) aka 'Yogi' 100
The One x Punto Rojo 100
Velvet Rush X NL#5/Neville's Haze 100
Vietnam Black x The One/Panama 100
Zazen x (Velvet Rush x NL#5/Haze) aka 'Guru' 100
jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
THT
Well-Known Member
True story. Things happen - just happy I got them and gas was very responsive via email with an arrival date.
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
I think they are a small operation, and sometimes things get backlogged.
1 time he went out of town, and another person was supposed to send out orders, but wasn't the best at doing it. It took 9 days that time, but I could care less. As long as I get them, and don't get ripped off ect, I'm fine with a little wait. GAS aint gonna rip anyone off. While not 100% positive, I think he send out orders on Mondays. So if he gets the order Tuesday, theres 6 days wait before theyre sent, add 3-4 more days to get the package, and you have 9 - 10 days.
1 time he went out of town, and another person was supposed to send out orders, but wasn't the best at doing it. It took 9 days that time, but I could care less. As long as I get them, and don't get ripped off ect, I'm fine with a little wait. GAS aint gonna rip anyone off. While not 100% positive, I think he send out orders on Mondays. So if he gets the order Tuesday, theres 6 days wait before theyre sent, add 3-4 more days to get the package, and you have 9 - 10 days.
kristoffolese
Well-Known Member
Something I DO want to say, though, so there are no disappointments or unreasonable expectations... the 91’ NL5 x Nevilles Haze f-5’s ABSOLUTELY contain some real deal, high powered genes & traits. I PROMISE you. But... this is not for the novice, first time grower who just wants to grow some decent herb & stop paying exorbitant prices for their medicine.
In my mind, this strain is for the BREEDER. It has some very, very desirable traits, some of which are nearly gone from the modern, wide-spread genome. The trend is to select for ONE thing (a certain taste, or smell or yield), to the detriment of several others. Im sure most/all of the older members especially, can verify that there are a LOT of strains that just dont seem to be as good as they used to... or at least most versions of certain strains arent as good as they used to be. Strawberry Cough - FIRE when i first came across it... still good herb now, but I just cant seem to find the POTENT version of it, I was originally introduced to. I can say the same about GDP, MANY hazes/haze crosses (Super silver, Nevilles, Mullumbimby Madness, etc), a ton of dif OG phenos... it sucks.
I ABSOLUTELY bow to the growing expertise of most seed banks & breeders. But Im sorry... Breeding 2 plants, just because the prospective mom, “plant X” is badass & has this, that & the other thing, does NOT mean it will be a good cross to a given stud male. The average grower basically just guesses, and often only uses subjective data (smells/tastes like “x”, looks like “x”, feels like “x”, etc) without knowing what genes are involved in the creation of which traits. A breeder KNOWS, %-wise, what they are likely to get from a pairing, before even doing it. A cartain momma plant may have EVERYTHING youre looking for. But if the male u breed her to carries opposing double dominant traits, in one or more areas, you could very well be breeding the line into the ground, eliminating the specialness of the momma female, through successive generations of breeding. The problem, aside from lack of education, is that most genetics are shrouded in all sorts of mystery. And growers often do not keep proper records, or the critical information needed to determine the dominance or recessiveness of given traits, as figured by expressions of successive generations. Most so called “breeders” are just throwing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. “This momma is DANK! This male smells AWESOME! Lets breed em & make our own strain!” Now there IS value in these types of totally random, subjective breedings. Shoot, Kyle Kushman said that was exactly how the Strawberry Cough was created... just luck, an accident. But to PERPETUATE a highly desirable strain, keeping the quality equally good or better with each successive generation... THAT is the mark of a good breeder. Also much respect for those like Ken Estes, who INTENTIONALLY bred a strain into a corner, because he was a good enuf breeder, that the traits he was losing each gen, were undesirables. The result, was a highly stable Granddaddy Purple. But now that the strain is out of Estes’ hands? Seeing a TON of diluted, lower quality GDP. Still good, but just not the same.
My point, is that the ‘91 Nl5haze, allows us to go back to BEFORE a shit-ton of the goodness was bred out of it. But to me- the excitement comes in knowing the value of these NL5 Haze keepers as breeding stock. Keep that in mind, and you’ll never be disappointed
jonsnow399
Well-Known Member
So to summarize, you're saying its killer weed, you just gotta sort thru it?Something I DO want to say, though, so there are no disappointments or unreasonable expectations... the 91’ NL5 x Nevilles Haze f-5’s ABSOLUTELY contain some real deal, high powered genes & traits. I PROMISE you. But... this is not for the novice, first time grower who just wants to grow some decent herb & stop paying exorbitant prices for their medicine.
In my mind, this strain is for the BREEDER. It has some very, very desirable traits, some of which are nearly gone from the modern, wide-spread genome. The trend is to select for ONE thing (a certain taste, or smell or yield), to the detriment of several others. Im sure most/all of the older members especially, can verify that there are a LOT of strains that just dont seem to be as good as they used to... or at least most versions of certain strains arent as good as they used to be. Strawberry Cough - FIRE when i first came across it... still good herb now, but I just cant seem to find the POTENT version of it, I was originally introduced to. I can say the same about GDP, MANY hazes/haze crosses (Super silver, Nevilles, Mullumbimby Madness, etc), a ton of dif OG phenos... it sucks.
I ABSOLUTELY bow to the growing expertise of most seed banks & breeders. But Im sorry... Breeding 2 plants, just because the prospective mom, “plant X” is badass & has this, that & the other thing, does NOT mean it will be a good cross to a given stud male. The average grower basically just guesses, and often only uses subjective data (smells/tastes like “x”, looks like “x”, feels like “x”, etc) without knowing what genes are involved in the creation of which traits. A breeder KNOWS, %-wise, what they are likely to get from a pairing, before even doing it. A cartain momma plant may have EVERYTHING youre looking for. But if the male u breed her to carries opposing double dominant traits, in one or more areas, you could very well be breeding the line into the ground, eliminating the specialness of the momma female, through successive generations of breeding. The problem, aside from lack of education, is that most genetics are shrouded in all sorts of mystery. And growers often do not keep proper records, or the critical information needed to determine the dominance or recessiveness of given traits, as figured by expressions of successive generations. Most so called “breeders” are just throwing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. “This momma is DANK! This male smells AWESOME! Lets breed em & make our own strain!” Now there IS value in these types of totally random, subjective breedings. Shoot, Kyle Kushman said that was exactly how the Strawberry Cough was created... just luck, an accident. But to PERPETUATE a highly desirable strain, keeping the quality equally good or better with each successive generation... THAT is the mark of a good breeder. Also much respect for those like Ken Estes, who INTENTIONALLY bred a strain into a corner, because he was a good enuf breeder, that the traits he was losing each gen, were undesirables. The result, was a highly stable Granddaddy Purple. But now that the strain is out of Estes’ hands? Seeing a TON of diluted, lower quality GDP. Still good, but just not the same.
My point, is that the ‘91 Nl5haze, allows us to go back to BEFORE a shit-ton of the goodness was bred out of it. But to me- the excitement comes in knowing the value of these NL5 Haze keepers as breeding stock. Keep that in mind, and you’ll never be disappointed
jimihendrix1
Well-Known Member
Some of it is really really strong, but the taste isn't there, so people breed it with higher terpene strains.
1 plant we had was really strong, but was really bland, would make you cough your head off, but if I'm going to cough my head off, at least I want the taste of the weed to taste good. Really long lasting high, good yield. 90 days though.
A couple other plants were very floral, tasting nice. But take 100 days to finish.
Theres a bunch of genetic scenarios breeders may take into consideration when they use these genes for breeding.
1 plant we had was really strong, but was really bland, would make you cough your head off, but if I'm going to cough my head off, at least I want the taste of the weed to taste good. Really long lasting high, good yield. 90 days though.
A couple other plants were very floral, tasting nice. But take 100 days to finish.
Theres a bunch of genetic scenarios breeders may take into consideration when they use these genes for breeding.
kristoffolese
Well-Known Member
Yes and no lol Yes, u do need to do some pheno hunting. But JimiH hit the nail on the head- The value, is in its suitability as breeding stock. The vigor, the extremely intense rushy effect, the power, the yield... But the keepers dont have EVERYTHING... terps not as intense as we'd like, flowering a bit longer than we'd like, and the leaf to calyx ratio is higher than we'd like... But a single, proper cross with subsequent f2 breedings parsing out the genes, can produce a plant that retains all of the power, effect, vigor and yield of the nl5haze keeper, while adding the reduced flowering times, hi calyx to leaf ratio and resin/terp production of the other parent. Jim is right on the money suggesting a hash plant cross. May take running serious #'s of plants to get all the traits u want, in the intensity u want, in one plant, without keeping genes u DON'T want in the genome. Can be very challenging, time consuming, as many of these genes are not simple "yes", "no", have it or don't, types. Population genetics must be employed with cannabis, as simple mandelion (sp?) genetics are not sufficient to express the range of genetic expression. 2 plants may both share a gene that produces "skunk" smelling terps. But one may have a much more INTENSE expression of it. For the average grower, though... I can almost guarantee you'll get a winner by crossing a keeper nl5haze to a keeper HP.
kona gold
Well-Known Member
I follow what you are saying.Something I DO want to say, though, so there are no disappointments or unreasonable expectations... the 91’ NL5 x Nevilles Haze f-5’s ABSOLUTELY contain some real deal, high powered genes & traits. I PROMISE you. But... this is not for the novice, first time grower who just wants to grow some decent herb & stop paying exorbitant prices for their medicine.
In my mind, this strain is for the BREEDER. It has some very, very desirable traits, some of which are nearly gone from the modern, wide-spread genome. The trend is to select for ONE thing (a certain taste, or smell or yield), to the detriment of several others. Im sure most/all of the older members especially, can verify that there are a LOT of strains that just dont seem to be as good as they used to... or at least most versions of certain strains arent as good as they used to be. Strawberry Cough - FIRE when i first came across it... still good herb now, but I just cant seem to find the POTENT version of it, I was originally introduced to. I can say the same about GDP, MANY hazes/haze crosses (Super silver, Nevilles, Mullumbimby Madness, etc), a ton of dif OG phenos... it sucks.
I ABSOLUTELY bow to the growing expertise of most seed banks & breeders. But Im sorry... Breeding 2 plants, just because the prospective mom, “plant X” is badass & has this, that & the other thing, does NOT mean it will be a good cross to a given stud male. The average grower basically just guesses, and often only uses subjective data (smells/tastes like “x”, looks like “x”, feels like “x”, etc) without knowing what genes are involved in the creation of which traits. A breeder KNOWS, %-wise, what they are likely to get from a pairing, before even doing it. A cartain momma plant may have EVERYTHING youre looking for. But if the male u breed her to carries opposing double dominant traits, in one or more areas, you could very well be breeding the line into the ground, eliminating the specialness of the momma female, through successive generations of breeding. The problem, aside from lack of education, is that most genetics are shrouded in all sorts of mystery. And growers often do not keep proper records, or the critical information needed to determine the dominance or recessiveness of given traits, as figured by expressions of successive generations. Most so called “breeders” are just throwing shit against the wall and seeing what sticks. “This momma is DANK! This male smells AWESOME! Lets breed em & make our own strain!” Now there IS value in these types of totally random, subjective breedings. Shoot, Kyle Kushman said that was exactly how the Strawberry Cough was created... just luck, an accident. But to PERPETUATE a highly desirable strain, keeping the quality equally good or better with each successive generation... THAT is the mark of a good breeder. Also much respect for those like Ken Estes, who INTENTIONALLY bred a strain into a corner, because he was a good enuf breeder, that the traits he was losing each gen, were undesirables. The result, was a highly stable Granddaddy Purple. But now that the strain is out of Estes’ hands? Seeing a TON of diluted, lower quality GDP. Still good, but just not the same.
My point, is that the ‘91 Nl5haze, allows us to go back to BEFORE a shit-ton of the goodness was bred out of it. But to me- the excitement comes in knowing the value of these NL5 Haze keepers as breeding stock. Keep that in mind, and you’ll never be disappointed
But I have been breeding since '92. I know there are others that have been doing it much longer, but I feel with 26 years in, I have some confidence in selection and genetic combinations as well as how terpenes will combine. No not 100%, but pretty close. Even from my very first projects, it seemed very natural to me and still does.
I can do it with one pack of seeds, as the good ones always seem to come to me. Not being arrogant, just know my potential, and all whom have used my seeds say they are at leat equal to and better that what they buy, from breeders like The Rev, Dr. Greenthumbs, Top Dawg, OBSoul........
And I have selection skills on the f3 to 5 as well.
I was just blessed with a really good nose, and the ability to spot the best that comes across my way.
I just got back from the Hawaii expo, and met all the local and big seeds guys. I feel comfortable saying that i produce the same quality or better.
I have been humble my whole life, and given props to all the guys and put myself lower, but I also have to be real, and know what I do, and not be afraid to take my place either.
Also I don't believe in the big numbers produce the best seeds.
Because it's too easy to lose focus no matter how well disciplined you are and how good your notes are.
Most cull the slow growers and the mutants. Slow growers in veg, doesn't mean slow in flower either. Some take off once flowered. And mutants, can be the progression of a strain, not regression always.
So big seed number will yield results of very healthy veg plants, with great structure, and whatever looks nice. But that's not always wherethe potency and flavor hide.
I have made mistakes before and will always make mistakes to some degree, but that's how you learn, and keep learning.
I had a few female flowers show up on one of the 4 BOH's, so recessiveness still lies in those genetics.
Seems what I have given out for people to test are hermaphrodite free.
But I am not looking for any pats on the back, but I can hold my own.
Swami is used for breeding material, as I will improve on what gifts I purchased from him.
kristoffolese
Well-Known Member
Concering "big numbers" needed to produce best seeds... it's really just simple probability. Your % chances to obtain the exact combo of gene traits you're after, are much better if u are running high numbers of plants. In fact, imo, it is a MUST, if u don't wanna spend years looking for that exact combo ur after. I also want to make a clear distinction between what Im talking about, and subjective breeding methods that still produce potent, dank, pleasing, saleable, etc, weed. That's not what I referring to. I'm referring to the hunting of specific genetic traits, to obtain an exact result. I have had FIRE crosses, that I considered a failure, because I did not get the specific gene expression I was after. The chembo kush (not kimbo), is an example of this for me. I wanted the CHEM expression. Got fucking FIRE frome the f2 crosses... but no Chem
Higher numbers of plants will definitely help with this type of selection.