America Is Disgusting

[TheGrassIsGreenerInAus]

Arseholes puff too.
The view from here in Canada is like watching the drunk neighbors across the street through the front window, wrestle naked on the front lawn. Interesting for sure, but it kinda brings the neighborhood down, if ya know what I mean mate, no class. The Americans seem barely civilized at times... Trump is the face of America, and if yer an American with a heart and a brain, that can't feel good, if yer a patriot yer fit to be tied and many are so pissed they could fucking near spontaneously combust.

I might add that Trump is not liked in Canada either, something we have in common with most Americans.

I'm NOT SURPRISED lol Canadians are NICE people, Trump and his ilk are congealed sputum :/

 

[Unclebaldrick]

Arseholes puff too.
The view from here in Canada is like watching the drunk neighbors across the street through the front window, wrestle naked on the front lawn. Interesting for sure, but it kinda brings the neighborhood down, if ya know what I mean mate, no class. The Americans seem barely civilized at times... Trump is the face of America, and if yer an American with a heart and a brain, that can't feel good, if yer a patriot yer fit to be tied and many are so pissed they could fucking near spontaneously combust.

I might add that Trump is not liked in Canada either, something we have in common with most Americans.

Oh come now. If you took the stupidest, most ignorant and most racist 30% of your population and gave them a reality show like the White House, you might look so good either.

 

[TheGrassIsGreenerInAus]

Oh come now. If you took the stupidest, most ignorant and most racist 30% of your population and gave them a reality show like the White House, you might look so good either.

The moment you hear 'info wars is the only news I believe' you know that's a lost cause lol. Check out these guys, THIS is where I, a NORMAL person, get my news from (well American-related news)

 

[OldMedUser]

They are still around, however. They just don't currently have a black president or woman presidential candidate to rail against.

Hard for even them to find positive talking points about the current prez.

It's not even just the comical yet tragic actions in the states but on the world stage. So many conferences with other world leaders I've seen on the news where once some other leader has done talking to him they turn away rolling their eyes. That's not good for Americans overall.

His lack of decorum or even a basic level of diplomacy is appalling. I know if the US didn't have Canada by the short hairs Justin would be doing the same.

 

[OldMedUser]

Oh come now. If you took the stupidest, most ignorant and most racist 30% of your population and gave them a reality show like the White House, you might look so good either.

We got our share of racists and misogynists here too but most are too polite to rant and rave in public about it. They'd have to say "Sorry" after every negative comment . Kind of takes the sting out of their rhetoric. It's a Canadian thing.

 

[TheGrassIsGreenerInAus]

We got our share of racists and misogynists here too but most are too polite to rant and rave in public about it. They'd have to say "Sorry" after every negative comment . Kind of takes the sting out of their rhetoric. It's a Canadian thing.

really lol I always thought that was just a stereotype, even the BIGOTS are polite? I gotta go to Canada lol

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Oh come now. If you took the stupidest, most ignorant and most racist 30% of your population and gave them a reality show like the White House, you might look so good either.

We already beat ya to Trump, Google the late Rob Ford mayor of Toronto. I figure he was Trump's inspiration, more tragic than malicious.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Yup.

It wasn't just the Trumptards either. Liberals where buying right wing propaganda that they were to blame for Trump. It wasn't too long ago that so-called liberals like @Padawanbater2 , @ttystikk and @st0wandgrow were claiming that we should make nice with right wing racist radicals because we were hurting their feelings and hardening their resolve to destroy democracy. In the words of tty, if we would only stop talking about racism, it would go away

The more the right wing movement has revealed itself for what it really is -- an authoritarian antidemocratic pugnacious nationalist and violent misogynistic white supremacist movement, otherwise known as fascism, there seems to be less appetite for people to defend them.

They are still around, however. They just don't currently have a black president or woman presidential candidate to rail against.

Have they admitted the error of their ways? You should always try reason first, even if you know it won't work, ya gotta try anyway or you'd be like them. We believe in reason and logic, they do not, little wonder we reach for it when confronted with stupidity, be believe it works and makes the world a better place. You can help cure racism with reason, but you have to have a heart to work with first and the courage to overcome the habits of a lifetime. Sometimes ya gotta work with racism, compromise with it (American history), but never give up on your principles and keep pressing forward. Unless ya wanna go for reconstruction ver 2.0 in the south and pass human rights and hate laws, but that would cause civil war II. Ya might as well try to ban guns!

 

[Fogdog]

Have they released the error of their ways? You should always try reason first, even if you know it won't work, ya gotta try anyway or you'd be like them. We believe in reason and logic, they do not, little wonder we reach for it when confronted with stupidity, be believe it works and makes the world a better place. You can help cure racism with reason, but you have to have a heart to work with first and the courage to overcome the habits of a lifetime. Sometimes ya gotta work with racism, compromise with it (American history), but never give up on your principles and keep pressing forward. Unless ya wanna go for reconstruction ver 2.0 in the south and pass human rights and hate laws, but that would cause civil war II. Ya might as well try to ban guns!

Sure, I give them a chance but 90% of the time the reply comes back more offensive than before. The US actually never did work out a compromise with slavery unless you want to count the first 60 years or so. How do you compromise with slavery? Same with racism. Same with sexual abuse in the workplace. The 1960's civil rights movement wasn't successful because people talked nice with racists about ending segregation. The only people who talk about making compromise with people like that are the ones who aren't their target.

From what I've seen -- and I've seen a lot -- racists have to change themselves. My dad grew up in segregationist Mississippi and he was strongly racist while I was a kid. There was nothing that anybody could do or say to change my dad's bias. We lived in California, he had a liberal wife and kept it bottled up to keep the peace but he made no bones about how he felt within the family. He changed his own mind towards the end of his life but it came from within and after he could see how much better the country was post enactment of the civil rights laws. Racists have to be confronted, stopped and contained. They can decide for themselves how to deal with it.

I think where reason and discussion might work is to energize support of people who aren't racist but aren't motivated to support change that might affect their standing in society.

 

[Huckster79]

Id definetly concur the frequency, passion and furvor of his defense has gone down significantly... i take it as a good sign but it kinda takes a way from some of the fun of the fiery threads... now it seems whos left for the most part our big disagreements are minor in deapth at best, we can spar over some nuances maybe, but most of time now these threads have not become so much a written debate but now its a hang out of commiseration....

 

[Fogdog]

Id definetly concur the frequency, passion and furvor of his defense has gone down significantly... i take it as a good sign but it kinda takes a way from some of the fun of the fiery threads... now it seems whos left for the most part our big disagreements are minor in deapth at best, we can spar over some nuances maybe, but most of time now these threads have not become so much a written debate but now its a hang out of commiseration....

Election season is going to get hot around here.

 

[Padawanbater2]

It wasn't just the Trumptards either. Liberals where buying right wing propaganda that they were to blame for Trump. It wasn't too long ago that so-called liberals like @Padawanbater2 , @ttystikk and @st0wandgrow were claiming that we should make nice with right wing racist radicals because we were hurting their feelings and hardening their resolve to destroy democracy.

Was it Russia or right-wing propaganda that made Hillary Clinton accept hundreds of thousands of dollars for a few hours of speaking to a group of Wall Street bankers? Or that she voted for the Iraq War that killed at least 200,000 Iraqi civilians, 6,000 American soldiers, and by the end, will cost America $7 trillion?

Adrian Chen, author of the NYT report that initially broke the story about "Russian trolls", says that he believes it did not affect the outcome of the election

The only people pushing that narrative are establishment Democrats and corporate media to distract from the legitimate reasons they failed to put a Democrat in the White House in Hillary Clinton in the hopes that enough of them will win during the midterms so they don't have to address it. So they can still keep throwing people like you a bone in support of identity politics while not actually making any significant changes their corporate donors wouldn't like, like raising the minimum wage to a living wage or enacting universal healthcare. Supporting single issues seems to be enough to get your vote. It's not for me.

Also, I don't recall anyone you cited suggested "being nice" to racists in order to sway them. We suggested simply not being an asshole to everyone who doesn't believe the exact same thing that you do because acting like a child definitely won't sway them while treating people you disagree with politically while being respectful and making valid logical points based in reason, history, and science has actually been proven to help people with seeing the error in their thinking, ie. Daryl Davis, Wade Watts, and the entirety of the non-violent response MLK pushed during the Civil Rights Movement.

Multiple members, including you, have said many times that you're not interested in changing these people's minds, you're only interested in berating them and mocking them and harassing them any way you can because you think it's funny and get a kick out of it.

 

[Fogdog]

Was it Russia or right-wing propaganda that made Hillary Clinton accept hundreds of thousands of dollars for a few hours of speaking to a group of Wall Street bankers? Or that she voted for the Iraq War that killed at least 200,000 Iraqi civilians, 6,000 American soldiers, and by the end, will cost America $7 trillion?

If you don't want politicians to earn money after leaving office then make it illegal to do so. She did what every private citizen has the right to do. Too bad that you don't like it. Nothing wrong with a private citizen who is paid to speak before a legal gathering.

Her vote on the Iraq war I didn't agree with at the time. I was against the Iraq war at the time. Recall that unlike shuylaar, I voted for Bernie in the primary. Oh yeah, Trump was against the Iraq war. I should have voted for him then? Is that what you are saying? Ahh, no, there are too many other issues that Trump was pushing that I disagreed with and I couldn't vote for him on the basis of Hillary's Iraq war vote ten years earlier.

Adrian Chen, author of the NYT report that initially broke the story about "Russian trolls", says that he believes it did not affect the outcome of the election

The only people pushing that narrative are establishment Democrats and corporate media to distract from the legitimate reasons they failed to put a Democrat in the White House in Hillary Clinton in the hopes that enough of them will win during the midterms so they don't have to address it. So they can still keep throwing people like you a bone in support of identity politics while not actually making any significant changes their corporate donors wouldn't like, like raising the minimum wage to a living wage or enacting universal healthcare. Supporting single issues seems to be enough to get your vote. It's not for me.

Huh? So, you don't object to Russian interference in our elections? I'm not disagreeing with the statement that the election wasn't affected by the effort. That's irrelevant to Russian objectives. It is clear that Russia achieved its objective of discrediting our election. The effectiveness of Trump's presidency has definitely been affected by their meddling. Going forward, it's going to cast doubt on future elections. It was an assault on the institution of how we elect our leaders and it worked. By the definition of an attack as a hostile action, it most certainly was.

Also, I don't recall anyone you cited suggested "being nice" to racists in order to sway them. We suggested simply not being an asshole to everyone who doesn't believe the exact same thing that you do because acting like a child definitely won't sway them while treating people you disagree with politically while being respectful and making valid logical points based in reason, history, and science has actually been proven to help people with seeing the error in their thinking, ie. Daryl Davis, Wade Watts, and the entirety of the non-violent response MLK pushed during the Civil Rights Movement.

Multiple members, including you, have said many times that you're not interested in changing these people's minds, you're only interested in berating them and mocking them and harassing them any way you can because you think it's funny and get a kick out of it.

Tomato, tomahto.

You want to suck up to racists as if being all smiley face is going to flip them to liberal when they chant "you will not replace us" during a torch light march in Charlottesville? Fine. Being white, you aren't the target of their racism you'll be fine, white boy. The civil rights movement wasn't founded on being tolerant of racism nor was it ineffective. Avoiding confronting racism only allows it to grow. Read some history written by real historians instead of Rush Limbaugh.

Let's not forget that the real assholes are the ones who are doing the killing and committing hate crimes across this country. You want to make nice to them. The French have a term for that: collaborateur .

 

[Padawanbater2]

If you don't want politicians to earn money after leaving office then make it illegal to do so. She did what every private citizen has the right to do. Too bad that you don't like it. Nothing wrong with a private citizen who is paid to speak before a legal gathering.

That's exactly what progressives are working to achieve. I certainly don't want a politician who voted in support of banking deregulation to be accepting such exorbitant "campaign contributions" from the same people/organizations they voted in support of during their tenure in government. It's as clear as day when someone like James Inhofe accepts millions from Exxon and other energy corporations, then votes in favor of deregulating the oil and gas industry and against any climate change bills, that his votes directly correlate with the amount of money he accepts from said industry. If you believe otherwise, that the money politicians receive from special interest groups does not affect their votes, like Marco Rubio just reiterated at the gun control meeting, I have a bridge to sell you... Because you're a naive child who doesn't understand how American politics actually works. I've posted clips and interviews from Democratic congressmen, like Barney Frank who has admitted it on air, and Democratic donors like Stephen Cloobeck who said he won't give another dollar to Democrats who talk about income and wealth inequality. Politicians like Dianne Feinstein who push strawman arguments created by Republicans to argue against single payer healthcare while accepting tens of thousands from the pharmaceutical industry. Or Debbie Wasserman Schultz who accepts thousands from the predatory lending industry, then votes in favor of it in Florida.. You yourself have even said that Republicans take money from special interests so Democrats have to, too, if they want to be able to compete, which is false.

Do you believe money has no effect on a politicians vote? Or do you just believe money only influences Republicans when it comes to the vote?

Her vote on the Iraq war I didn't agree with at the time. I was against the Iraq war at the time. Recall that unlike shuylaar, I voted for Bernie in the primary. Oh yeah, Trump was against the Iraq war. I should have voted for him then? Is that what you are saying? Ahh, no, there are too many other issues that Trump was pushing that I disagreed with and I couldn't vote for him on the basis of Hillary's Iraq war vote ten years earlier.

I said that Hillary Clinton's vote in support of the Iraq War was not created by "Russian propaganda". That is a very legitimate reason why a progressive would not vote for her. Donald Trump is a con artist, he sold lies and duped people into voting for him.

Huh? So, you don't object to Russian interference in our elections? I'm not disagreeing with the statement that the election wasn't affected by the effort.

Russian's, as in a group of trolls, not the Russian government

That's irrelevant to Russian objectives. It is clear that Russia achieved its objective of discrediting our election.

No, that is not clear. A small group of trolls based in Russia with a very small finance account posted memes on social media that did not sway a significant amount of votes to alter the outcome of the election. Have you seen the memes in question? Post one you believe swayed some votes. The whole idea was to cause confusion and distrust in American institutions. It can be said that distrust among Democrats and left leaning people towards these same institutions before Trump ever came along was high; police, FBI, CIA, etc. the same institutions that establishment Democrats are fawning over now because of Meulers investigation into the Trump campaign. Before Trump, conservatives called progressives "unAmerican" for opposing law enforcement, "unpatriotic" for opposing the wars.. now it seems we've come full circle..

Going forward, it's going to cast doubt on future elections. It was an assault on the institution of how we elect our leaders and it worked. By the definition of an attack as a hostile action, it most certainly was.

What does the Democratic primary have to do with this?

You want to suck up to racists as if being all smiley face is going to flip them to liberal when they chant "you will not replace us" during a torch light march in Charlottesville? Fine.

No, you mistake civility for the sake of actually trying to help understand the problem for kindness. Just because I choose not to respond emotionally to someone I disagree with, like you, doesn't mean I'm trying to be their friend. Does it feel like I'm trying to be your friend? I (try to) respond unemotionally and stoic because if I don't, it will only add fuel to the fire in the other person in their response. I'm not trying to argue with people, I'm trying to understand why they believe what they believe. Why would I want to try to elicit an emotional reaction out of them? The only reason I've come up with is to inflate your own ego. I know that because that's how I used to respond to people earlier on before I started trying to understand it. It gets nobody anywhere, quick.

Being white, you aren't the target of their racism you'll be fine, white boy.

MLK and the majority of the non-violent Civil Rights Movement were black. Even white people who supported the CRM were targeted by white racists at the time;

The civil rights movement wasn't founded on being tolerant of racism nor was it ineffective. Avoiding confronting racism only allows it to grow.

I didn't say the Civil Rights Movement was founded on being tolerant of racism. You do not have to be an asshole, like you are, towards people you disagree with politically in order to disavow racist sentiment or disapprove of people who hold racist ideals. In fact, that's proven to be counter intuitive to the process of reeducating people who are racist. It actually creates more racist sentiment among people. We both abhor racism/racists, the difference is that I actually give a fuck when it comes to trying to reform and reeducate them and help them try to see where they might be wrong while you simply post here to stir shit up and worsen the problem because it inflates your ego to feel intellectually superior to those you've deemed less than you.

Let's not forget that the real assholes are the ones who are doing the killing and committing hate crimes across this country. You want to make nice to them.

I want to understand them. You want to make fun of them. My strategy has been proven to work, your strategy has failed every time. I want to help change this to help people, you want to stroke your ego and help yourself

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I didn't say the Civil Rights Movement was founded on being tolerant of racism. You do not have to be an asshole, like you are, towards people you disagree with politically in order to disavow racist sentiment or disapprove of people who hold racist ideals. In fact, that's proven to be counter intuitive to the process of reeducating people who are racist. It actually creates more racist sentiment among people. We both abhor racism/racists, the difference is that I actually give a fuck when it comes to trying to reform and reeducate them and help them try to see where they might be wrong while you simply post here to stir shit up and worsen the problem because it inflates your ego to feel intellectually superior to those you've deemed less than you.

I want to understand them. You want to make fun of them. My strategy has been proven to work, your strategy has failed every time. I want to help change this to help people, you want to stroke your ego and help yourself

Sometimes you do have to be an asshole to the people you disagree with, in fact sometimes you have to kill them, think nazis. We have a word and behavior wired in to deal with ridiculous behaviors and ideas, ridicule, it's often used as abuse, but that's not its purpose. The real function of ridicule is to deal with the likes of Trump and those who persist in supporting him in spite of mounting evidence of treason, malfeasance and incompetence. We need to use a multipronged approach to the problem, using humor, ridicule, empathy, reason and even violence as required. This is not merely a case of people "disagreeing", but about fundamental principles and basic right vs wrong, things you fight and if required, die for, It's not about right vs left but about things like the rule of law, liberty and treason, serious shit.

Look for what unites you with those you agree with, not that which divides, Trump does that shit. Look beyond petty differences to the bigger picture and work together to make the world a better place than when we found it. Remember you are united in righteous indignation at Trump and the dishonesty, hatred, criminality and treason he represents. Honestly at this point my own take on it is, some support Trump because they are evil, some because they are stupid, others because they are both.

 

[schuylaar]

Paycheck is $400 more per month thanks to the tax cut. I don't watch TV so I'm not influenced by Propaganda rages.

No lost sleep here.

that would be $4800/yearly..did you change your withholding? pics or it didn't happen because average annualized tax cut is KNOWN to be $1200 per CBO.

 

[schuylaar]

That's exactly what progressives are working to achieve. I certainly don't want a politician who voted in support of banking deregulation to be accepting such exorbitant "campaign contributions" from the same people/organizations they voted in support of during their tenure in government. It's as clear as day when someone like James Inhofe accepts millions from Exxon and other energy corporations, then votes in favor of deregulating the oil and gas industry and against any climate change bills, that his votes directly correlate with the amount of money he accepts from said industry. If you believe otherwise, that the money politicians receive from special interest groups does not affect their votes, like Marco Rubio just reiterated at the gun control meeting, I have a bridge to sell you... Because you're a naive child who doesn't understand how American politics actually works. I've posted clips and interviews from Democratic congressmen, like Barney Frank who has admitted it on air, and Democratic donors like Stephen Cloobeck who said he won't give another dollar to Democrats who talk about income and wealth inequality. Politicians like Dianne Feinstein who push strawman arguments created by Republicans to argue against single payer healthcare while accepting tens of thousands from the pharmaceutical industry. Or Debbie Wasserman Schultz who accepts thousands from the predatory lending industry, then votes in favor of it in Florida.. You yourself have even said that Republicans take money from special interests so Democrats have to, too, if they want to be able to compete, which is false.

Do you believe money has no effect on a politicians vote? Or do you just believe money only influences Republicans when it comes to the vote?

I said that Hillary Clinton's vote in support of the Iraq War was not created by "Russian propaganda". That is a very legitimate reason why a progressive would not vote for her. Donald Trump is a con artist, he sold lies and duped people into voting for him.

Russian's, as in a group of trolls, not the Russian government

No, that is not clear. A small group of trolls based in Russia with a very small finance account posted memes on social media that did not sway a significant amount of votes to alter the outcome of the election. Have you seen the memes in question? Post one you believe swayed some votes. The whole idea was to cause confusion and distrust in American institutions. It can be said that distrust among Democrats and left leaning people towards these same institutions before Trump ever came along was high; police, FBI, CIA, etc. the same institutions that establishment Democrats are fawning over now because of Meulers investigation into the Trump campaign. Before Trump, conservatives called progressives "unAmerican" for opposing law enforcement, "unpatriotic" for opposing the wars.. now it seems we've come full circle..

What does the Democratic primary have to do with this?

No, you mistake civility for the sake of actually trying to help understand the problem for kindness. Just because I choose not to respond emotionally to someone I disagree with, like you, doesn't mean I'm trying to be their friend. Does it feel like I'm trying to be your friend? I (try to) respond unemotionally and stoic because if I don't, it will only add fuel to the fire in the other person in their response. I'm not trying to argue with people, I'm trying to understand why they believe what they believe. Why would I want to try to elicit an emotional reaction out of them? The only reason I've come up with is to inflate your own ego. I know that because that's how I used to respond to people earlier on before I started trying to understand it. It gets nobody anywhere, quick.
MLK and the majority of the non-violent Civil Rights Movement were black. Even white people who supported the CRM were targeted by white racists at the time;

I didn't say the Civil Rights Movement was founded on being tolerant of racism. You do not have to be an asshole, like you are, towards people you disagree with politically in order to disavow racist sentiment or disapprove of people who hold racist ideals. In fact, that's proven to be counter intuitive to the process of reeducating people who are racist. It actually creates more racist sentiment among people. We both abhor racism/racists, the difference is that I actually give a fuck when it comes to trying to reform and reeducate them and help them try to see where they might be wrong while you simply post here to stir shit up and worsen the problem because it inflates your ego to feel intellectually superior to those you've deemed less than you.

I want to understand them. You want to make fun of them. My strategy has been proven to work, your strategy has failed every time. I want to help change this to help people, you want to stroke your ego and help yourself

our political system of he/she with the most money wins it the equivalent of WHORING yourself..how can out lawmakers with kids of their own at home, leave this future to them?

forsake everyone and everything for MONEY..because 'corporations are people my friend' -mitt romney

 

[taint]

Man you guys are smart.........how do you not see both sides are paid by the same masters and have the same goals?
Serious question I really don't get it,the whole two party one corporate paradise system.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Man you guys are smart.........how do you not see both sides are paid by the same masters and have the same goals?
Serious question I really don't get it,the whole two party one corporate paradise system.

If yer trying to say the 1% have the rest of us by the nuts, I'm not gonna argue with ya. The GOP is completely bought and paid for, though there is a struggle going on inside the democratic party, the Clintons represented the corporate democrats and the Bernie bunch the more progressive wing. Money makes the world go around as they say, it sure makes American politicians respond to yer concerns, with money they can buy ads to persuade fools to vote for them. As the democrats gain power, money and corruption will follow, that's the way it works in a two party system with no limits on political financing. A two party system is only barely better than a one party system, one way forward is having more political parties and more than two points of view.

 

[UncleBuck]

Man you guys are smart.........how do you not see both sides are paid by the same masters and have the same goals?
Serious question I really don't get it,the whole two party one corporate paradise system.

Naive