LED Thread regarding stalk weight difference between LED & HPS

[jimihendrix1]

What HPS? All HPS aren't created equal either. Hortilux HPS has both Blue, and Red, and 1600+ umol/145,000 lumens, and intensity also does matter.

I can get a 1000w Hortilux HPS 18 inches from the top of the canopy of my plants with no burn. And I have really great airflow. I use 1 x 1000w HPS per 4 x 4, and easily pull 1000g every 63 days with Mr Nice Super Silver Haze with no atmospheric control, I don't top ect, no defoliation.

Am getting more than that from a Swami Blue Orca Haze, but it is a longer flowering variety.

The right pheno BOH will pull 1.4+gs a watt. But can take 80+ days.

How many Umol/PAR isthere from a 1000w Hortilux at 18 inches?? ALOT. And it penetrates at least 3 feet. Buds are dense all the way down the branches. No Fluff here. Solid as a rock.

The only thing I do is train my plant(s) early on by bending them, and forcing the secondaries to grow vertically vs laterally. ALL of the secondary become mains.

I get 2lbs from 1 plant in a 30 gallon container of Promix BX, for every 1000w Hortilux, and a 4 x 4 area, every 60-65 days. With 2 trained plants in 20g containers I can pull 2.5 lbs+

IMHO regardless of the light source, I wouldnt use less than 60w Sq/Ft. Period. YMMV, mine wont.

The SUN is 1367w Sq/M

I also supplement with 2 x 4ft, 32w Solacure UVA/UVB bulbs for each 4 x 4 area.

EDIT. EDIT

RED ALERT. USER ERROR. IDIOT ALERT.

Not good to get sq/M, mixed up with Sq/Ft.

It Should Read.

The SUN IS 1367W Sq/M... NOT 1000w SQ/FT.......

1367w Sq/M =====?????

14,714.2655w Sq/Ft.....

 

[Ryante55]

Exactly this^^^^^.
Reliability and consistency always wins. Hands down.
Thats all hps are, extremely reliable.

LEDs are nothing but reliable and consistent they

so why wont an led support a warehouse grow?
gpw is meaningless. look at the lab results, Brix results, its plain as day, if you take the time to research.
led does not penetrate, does not metabolize as efficiently as hid lights, its proven year after year while
the led manu's play catch to the hid boss

It will it's just expensive so i can understand why you would use hps. Your so full of shit let's see some of this proof.

 

[Ryante55]

You've been saying incredibly dumb shit since you started posting in this thread. Now you're claiming it was all just one big sarcastic troll?

He wishes he was a troll he's just stupid.

 

[Ryante55]

theres no guess work here right after someone shows there par meter against a ruler under their best lights they have for sale vs hid..
aint gonna happen, but thanks for those graphs every year

What par you getting with hps? I have 3' of penetration from 1000-500 ppfd across a 4x4 with 600w I've never seen numbers like that from any 600w hps.

 

[Ryante55]

I love these threads!
There's actually quite a bit of knowledge for people spread throughout it if you can sift through the back and forth argument.

As far as I see it, the situation is this. LEDs are the future. Hids are a relic of the past, from a time when we didn't know or couldn't do any better.
That being said, led light companies need to cut their prices quite dramatically if they expect people to switch or even continue using their products.
I understand it's a business and this is how people make a living, but the prices are extortionate. Which is why we have a thriving scene of DIY LED builds.

Will we ever find out what 3 lights that guy used? I'm so curious now!

It really isn't that expensive if you look at growing like a business. $1000 in lights to grow 2 lbs. that pays for itself quickly

 

[chiqifella]

What par you getting with hps? I have 3' of penetration from 1000-500 ppfd across a 4x4 with 600w I've never seen numbers like that from any 600w hps.

did you forget i gave up on led lights years ago? are you aware of the great strides led lights make every year since then?
do you have your par reading you say is not diminished in 36 inches into your canopy? what numbers are you speaking of? your eyeballed penetrations? the size of popcorn at 2 feet compared to 3 feet?
you have little idea of numbers until you measure with them.

 

[Ryante55]

did you forget i gave up on led lights years ago? are you aware of the great strides led lights make every year since then?
do you have your par reading you say is not diminished in 36 inches into your canopy? what numbers are you speaking of? your eyeballed penetrations? the size of popcorn at 2 feet compared to 3 feet?
you have little idea of numbers until you measure with them.

What are yo babbling about? I use an apogee par meter with full spectrum sensor. What par meter do you use for your hps readings?

 

[Ryante55]

did you forget i gave up on led lights years ago? are you aware of the great strides led lights make every year since then?
do you have your par reading you say is not diminished in 36 inches into your canopy? what numbers are you speaking of? your eyeballed penetrations? the size of popcorn at 2 feet compared to 3 feet?
you have little idea of numbers until you measure with them.

Wait i think this guy has no idea what par or ppfd are...dude just leave now you lost the argument you were trying to have.

 

[chiqifella]

What are yo babbling about? I use an apogee par meter with full spectrum sensor. What par meter do you use for your hps readings?

thats nice, what are the numbers you speak of @ 3 feet penetration?
what is your Brix at harvest?

 

[chiqifella]

Wait i think this guy has no idea what par or ppfd are...dude just leave now you lost the argument you were trying to have.

you weird man, I said my leds sucked. you said they must have been brand X, I said no, you got mad.
my leds did indeed suck. I didnt think you sucked too, until you started acting like an led seller.
how can you possibly disagree with my personal experience?

 

[LEDandCoffee]

Time is time. Energy is energy, and dollars are dollars.

Maybe you'd be better off growing something else than. If you can't understand the concept of lollipopping idk what to tell you.

 

[Tim1987]

What HPS? All HPS aren't created equal either. Hortilux HPS has both Blue, and Red, and 1600+ umol/145,000 lumens, and intensity also does matter.

I can get a 1000w Hortilux HPS 18 inches from the top of the canopy of my plants with no burn. And I have really great airflow. I use 1 x 1000w HPS per 4 x 4, and easily pull 1000g every 63 days with Mr Nice Super Silver Haze with no atmospheric control, I don't top ect, no defoliation.

Am getting more than that from a Swami Blue Orca Haze, but it is a longer flowering variety.

The right pheno BOH will pull 1.4+gs a watt. But can take 80+ days.

How many Umol/PAR isthere from a 1000w Hortilux at 18 inches?? ALOT. And it penetrates at least 3 feet. Buds are dense all the way down the branches. No Fluff here. Solid as a rock.

The only thing I do is train my plant(s) early on by bending them, and forcing the secondaries to grow vertically vs laterally. ALL of the secondary become mains.

I get 2lbs from 1 plant in a 30 gallon container of Promix BX, for every 1000w Hortilux, and a 4 x 4 area, every 60-65 days. With 2 trained plants in 20g containers I can pull 2.5 lbs+

IMHO regardless of the light source, I wouldnt use less than 60w Sq/Ft. Period. YMMV, mine wont.

The SUN is 1000w Sq/Ft, at the Equator.

I also supplement with 2 x 4ft, 32w Solacure UVA/UVB bulbs for each 4 x 4 area.

Well explained. I think your experience shows in the post.

 

[Tim1987]

It really isn't that expensive if you look at growing like a business. $1000 in lights to grow 2 lbs. that pays for itself quickly

Although, in a large open space like a warehouse, light depreciates in value when it spreads, very fast. Plants are the same. They see the light aswell, just way more PAR.
Its like shining 1000watts from a distance. Its gonna fade to the point you cant even see it a few hundred metres away. I know im referring to watts,but watts and PAR go hand in hand.

 

[Tim1987]

The brofessor has spoken.

I only have to worry amout room temperature. The light energy from my hps handles my canopy temps perfectly.
Hope this helped
Tim

 

[Tim1987]

I love these threads!
There's actually quite a bit of knowledge for people spread throughout it if you can sift through the back and forth argument.

As far as I see it, the situation is this. LEDs are the future. Hids are a relic of the past, from a time when we didn't know or couldn't do any better.
That being said, led light companies need to cut their prices quite dramatically if they expect people to switch or even continue using their products.
I understand it's a business and this is how people make a living, but the prices are extortionate. Which is why we have a thriving scene of DIY LED builds.

Will we ever find out what 3 lights that guy used? I'm so curious now!

EXACTLY GUYS ^^^^

 

[LEDandCoffee]

LEDs aren't cheap... because they last years upon years. I will agree some of these companies are bending you over with price, but a lot of them really aren't profiting as much as you'd think.

No one is forcing you to switch, call your tits Tim.

 

[jimihendrix1]

Light and other electromagnetic radiation
The intensity (or illuminance or irradiance) of light or other linear waves radiating from a point source (energy per unit of area perpendicular to the source) is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from the source; so an object (of the same size) twice as far away, receives only one-quarter the energy (in the same time period).

More generally, the irradiance, i.e., the intensity (or power per unit area in the direction of propagation), of a spherical wave front varies inversely with the square of the distance from the source (assuming there are no losses caused by absorption or scattering).

For example, the intensity of radiation from the Sun is 9126 watts per square meter at the distance of Mercury (0.387 AU); but only 1367 watts per square meter at the distance of Earth (1 AU)—an approximate threefold increase in distance results in an approximate ninefold decrease in intensity of radiation.

For non-isotropic radiators such as parabolic antennas, headlights, and lasers, the effective origin is located far behind the beam aperture. If you are close to the origin, you don't have to go far to double the radius, so the signal drops quickly. When you are far from the origin and still have a strong signal, like with a laser, you have to travel very far to double the radius and reduce the signal. This means you have a stronger signal or have antenna gain in the direction of the narrow beam relative to a wide beam in all directions of an isotropic antenna.

In photography and stage lighting, the inverse-square law is used to determine the "fall off" or the difference in illumination on a subject as it moves closer to or further from the light source. For quick approximations, it is enough to remember that doubling the distance reduces illumination to one quarter;[8] or similarly, to halve the illumination increase the distance by a factor of 1.4 (the square root of 2), and to double illumination, reduce the distance to 0.7 (square root of 1/2). When the illuminant is not a point source, the inverse square rule is often still a useful approximation; when the size of the light source is less than one-fifth of the distance to the subject, the calculation error is less than 1%.[9]

The fractional reduction in electromagnetic fluence (Φ) for indirectly ionizing radiation with increasing distance from a point source can be calculated using the inverse-square law. Since emissions from a point source have radial directions, they intercept at a perpendicular incidence. The area of such a shell is 4πr 2 where r is the radial distance from the center. The law is particularly important in diagnostic radiography and radiotherapy treatment planning, though this proportionality does not hold in practical situations unless source dimensions are much smaller than the distance. As stated in fourier theory of heat "as the point source is magnification by distances , its radiation is dilute proportional to the sin of the angle, of the increasing circumference arc from the point of origin"

Example
Let the total power radiated from a point source, for example, an omnidirectional isotropic radiator, be P. At large distances from the source (compared to the size of the source), this power is distributed over larger and larger spherical surfaces as the distance from the source increases. Since the surface area of a sphere of radius r is A = 4πr 2, the intensity I (power per unit area) of radiation at distance r is

I = P A = P 4 π r 2 . {\displaystyle I={\frac {P}{A}}={\frac {P}{4\pi r^{2}}}.\,}

The energy or intensity decreases (divided by 4) as the distance r is doubled; measured in dB it would decrease by 6.02 dB per doubling of distance.

 

[jimihendrix1]

A DE 1000w Phillips bulb will retain 95% of its output after 1 year.

At $60 USD for a 1000w Eye Hortilux HPS, and even changing 2x a year is only $1200 in 10 years.

I get 4lbs+ from 1 crop 2x 1000w, at $200oz, is $6400 worth of weed. Add in $250 a month for 2 x 1000w on 12 hours, and 1 on 24. Say $800. 3 x 1000w all together

$60 x 3 bulb. $180 $250 Reflector/Ballast x 3 $950

$800 Electric
$950 Bulbs/Ballast/Reflector
$070 Promix BX
$1820
Say $2000

Still $3400 left over, and for some weed, $200/OZ is giving it away.

I could buy all new 1000w system every grow cycle, and if you can do 6 harvests a year, thats $20,000 worth of weed. After expenses. I get 6 in 378 days, with SSH. Been running this cut for 4 years. Been growing since 1972. 1977 indoors.

 

[Tim1987]

A DE 1000w Phillips bulb will retain 95% of its output after 1 year.

At $60 USD for a 1000w Eye Hortilux HPS, and even changing 2x a year is only $1200 in 10 years.

I get 4lbs+ from 1 crop 2x 1000w, at $200oz, is $6400 worth of weed. Add in $250 a month for 2 x 1000w on 12 hours, and 1 on 24. Say $800. 3 x 1000w all together

$60 x 3 bulb. $180 $250 Reflector/Ballast x 3 $950

$800 Electric
$950 Bulbs/Ballast/Reflector
$070 Promix BX
$1820
Say $2000

Still $3400 left over, and for some weed, $200/OZ is giving it away.

I could buy all new 1000w system every grow cycle, and if you can do 6 harvests a year, thats $20,000 worth of weed. After expenses. I get 6 in 378 days, with SSH. Been running this cut for 4 years. Been growing since 1972. 1977 indoors.

I think this speaks for itself

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

LEDs aren't cheap... because they last years upon years. I will agree some of these companies are bending you over with price, but a lot of them really aren't profiting as much as you'd think.

No one is forcing you to switch, call your tits Tim.

the only problem with them lasting years upon years is a two year old led is considered an outdated piece of crap compared to the new chips they develop at least once a year so far....when that start slowing down, when the new tech is lasting at least two or three years before its hopelessly outdated, then i'll start seriously shopping