LED Thread regarding stalk weight difference between LED & HPS

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sparkygeek

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Please, now were back to leds being 40% more light than hids....

Not even the sensible growers would support this load of shite...."!
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I stopped replying because it's impossible to get through to some... The DIYers are definitely using different hardware than the production vendors... Many seem to take offense that LED is being compared so unfavorably to HPS because it doesn't match their experience. I don't have any doubt they're experiences are different than those buying LED crap manufactured at the cheapest cost... The reality is that for many people just looking to grow flowers, the cheap LED systems are the only way they can pursue the technology. Some people just want to grow flowers rather than spending their time examining specs and perfecting the light with meters that lack traceability. The HPS growers prefer simple, green, biological meters, in other words, plants! It's just two different approaches to achieve the same result... Better flowers!

That being said, the LED knowledge of many of the DIYers on this site is indisputable. If one is inclined to go this route, a person will have support from many of the most experienced people. (Would you expect anything else from Rollitup?) I checked out the beginner's guide sticky in the LED DIY section a couple of years ago... The writer was clearly someone with a technical background experienced with conveying clear assembly instructions to those without technical knowledge... Seriously impressive! All the best!
 
Chip Green

Chip Green

Well-Known Member
sparkygeek said:
The DIYers are definitely using different hardware than the production vendors
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Exactly.....
I understand that a very specific area of knowledge is necessary, to be able to have access to the lighting equipment required to produce these highly "disputed" results.....
But the fact remains, there are ways, to OUTPERFORM HID lighting, with LED technology.
Same power usage, greater PAR range photon output, larger footprint= more yield. Guaranteed.....
 
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sparkygeek

Well-Known Member
Chip Green said:
Exactly.....
I understand that a very specific area of knowledge is necessary, to be able to have access to the lighting equipment required to produce these highly "disputed" results.....
But the fact remains, there are ways, to OUTPERFORM HID lighting, with LED technology.
Same power usage, greater PAR range photon output, larger footprint= more yield. Guaranteed.....
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You personally can have the greatest results in the world but if it's not available to average growers, they will just get the sub-par results others are reporting. What makes matters worse is people being fed wrong information because of ideology rather than logic. I'm glad you agreed with my one sentence... I actually wrote quite a bit more but I'm guessing either the other stuff hit too close to home or you didn't want to look like you were agreeing with someone who uses HPS lighting. I want to get the best flowers I can at the lowest cost... For me, right now HPS is the best route. Peace!
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
NanoGadget said:
None of the reputable led companies use equivalency any more. Timber, HLG, CobKits.... the only equivalency you'll find with them is data sheets showing par and ppfd comparisons. So when @Stephenj37826 or @CobKits say that a particular configuration of lights or a particular fixture is acceptable to replace a certain HID it is because the light output has been accurately measured and found to match or exceed the HID in question. Vipar, Mars, and the rest of the snake oil pushers are the ones using bullshit equivalency numbers. But anyone with any real knowledge of led grow lights wrote those companies off long ago. I find it telling that people use the worst of the field to discredit the the ones who are going about things the right way.
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A simple rule of thumb is youre gonna need 55-75% of the wattage to replace HID with LEDs for the typical efficiency ranges we are talking about. And to get to the lower number you are running the best most current tech the softest (and even then only comparing it to SE HPS) and those LED rigs are usually above $2/watt.

i would instantly dismiss anybody who uses arbitrary yardsticks like "HID equivalent watts" or tells you they can replace HID using less than half of the power - thats just not real,
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
sparkygeek said:
I want to get the best flowers I can at the lowest cost... For me, right now HPS is the best route. Peace!
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nothing wrong with that, be sure to consider upfront cost as well as operating cost (electricity and bulb/reflector changes) over the cost of the life of the fixture
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
Kingrow1 said:
Shit i use to think you were good but with noob ststements like led has been outperforming hps for years i just think your a fake....!
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check out growmau5's vids from a year ago. he did accurate metrics on run over run for both g/SF, g/W, and g/KWH over entire cycle. thats with now-somewhat-dated tech
 
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sparkygeek

Well-Known Member
CobKits said:
nothing wrong with that, be sure to consider upfront cost as well as operating cost (electricity and bulb/reflector changes) over the cost of the life of the fixture
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Based on my informal tests of a Gen 1 COB vs HPS, it's still a no-brainer. I am estimating 20-40% higher electrical costs per gram THC. Yes, you read that right. The overall efficiency of my OTS 1st-gen COB was significantly lower than my HPS. (I was surprised how bad it compared.) The upfront costs were the same for a 200 watt COB LED vs 150 watt HPS. (At least it no longer costs you more up front.) Now that the focus is on COB hopefully the advances will make COB LED competitive with HPS in the near future. All the best!
 
NanoGadget

NanoGadget

Well-Known Member
sparkygeek said:
Based on my informal tests of a Gen 1 COB vs HPS, it's still a no-brainer. I am estimating 20-40% higher electrical costs per gram THC. Yes, you read that right. The overall efficiency of my OTS 1st-gen COB was significantly lower than my HPS. (I was surprised how bad it compared.) The upfront costs were the same for a 200 watt COB LED vs 150 watt HPS. (At least it no longer costs you more up front.) Now that the focus is on COB hopefully the advances will make COB LED competitive with HPS in the near future. All the best!
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Gen 1? Uhhh....
 
S

sparkygeek

Well-Known Member
It's only relevant to provide background info on where the state of the art was last year. (I felt it was more accurate to include that detail for exactly the same reason you don't think it's relevant.) As many posters are under the impression LED has had a performance advantage over HPS for years... These fallacies are exactly the reason no one believes the hype anymore. Like many people here, I can't wait to lower my costs for my buds... I'm just not going to lower my standards...

I know many people that are looking forward to saving money while sacrificing nothing on the grow side. Personally, I can't wait to see it... The only thing is, no one will convince me of it with untraceable meters... I know the meters provide rapid comparative feedback to those testing LEDs... It is a problem however when growers are expected to ignore their own grow results because the meter contradicts those results... Have a good one!
 
NanoGadget

NanoGadget

Well-Known Member
sparkygeek said:
It's only relevant to provide background info on where the state of the art was last year. (I felt it was more accurate to include that detail for exactly the same reason you don't think it's relevant.) As many posters are under the impression LED has had a performance advantage over HPS for years... These fallacies are exactly the reason no one believes the hype anymore. Like many people here, I can't wait to lower my costs for my buds... I'm just not going to lower my standards...

I know many people that are looking forward to saving money while sacrificing nothing on the grow side. Personally, I can't wait to see it... The only thing is, no one will convince me of it with untraceable meters... I know the meters provide rapid comparative feedback to those testing LEDs... It is a problem however when growers are expected to ignore their own grow results because the meter contradicts those results... Have a good one!
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You seem to have not noticed numerous requests to look at the well documented and excellent results people are having with modern tech. Growmau5 was mentioned more than once and he has been crushing shit with LED for a while now and there are numerous examples of others right here on this sight. @GroErr is a great example.
 
ANC

ANC

Well-Known Member
Just had another idea for the cool earthers.
You could run underfloor heating connected to LEDs on water cooling.
 
NanoGadget

NanoGadget

Well-Known Member
I wasn't aware anyone was still water cooling leds in a grow application. Any links to examples? Just curious.
 
CobKits

CobKits

Well-Known Member
sparkygeek said:
Based on my informal tests of a Gen 1 COB vs HPS, it's still a no-brainer. I am estimating 20-40% higher electrical costs per gram THC. Yes, you read that right. The overall efficiency of my OTS 1st-gen COB was significantly lower than my HPS.
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so "gen 1 COB"? is that from 2012 or so?

sparkygeek said:
As many posters are under the impression LED has had a performance advantage over HPS for years...
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i dont know a single person (out of hundreds) whos yield when down when they switched from HPS to efficient* cob rigs

*chips built since 2014 run at 75W or less
 
Chip Green

Chip Green

Well-Known Member
sparkygeek said:
I'm guessing either the other stuff hit too close to home or you didn't want to look like you were agreeing with someone who uses HPS lighting
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Never once have I indicated anyone should stop using HPS. There are many situations where HPS is a better option. The only reason I ever engage in any debate over this topic, I see people INSISTING that there is no way ANY LED can outperform HID lighting. Simply put, that is just not the case.
 
Johnny Lawrence

Johnny Lawrence

Well-Known Member
sparkygeek said:
Based on my informal tests of a Gen 1 COB vs HPS, it's still a no-brainer. I am estimating 20-40% higher electrical costs per gram THC. Yes, you read that right. The overall efficiency of my OTS 1st-gen COB was significantly lower than my HPS. (I was surprised how bad it compared.) The upfront costs were the same for a 200 watt COB LED vs 150 watt HPS. (At least it no longer costs you more up front.) Now that the focus is on COB hopefully the advances will make COB LED competitive with HPS in the near future. All the best!
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Was this your friend's cob? The one you were discussing in another thread that was "rated at 400 watts"?

Could you please name the company who produced it and provide a link please?

You've said some incredibly stupid nonsense in regards to LED, so I'm just trying to understand what you're basing your "1st-gen COB" on.
 
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