DiY LEDs - How to Power Them

[boilingoil]

Typically you will hit a diminishing return over around 1.5-2.0 Amp, you still get more light but the need for power increases, known as droop and you then need greater expenditure on cooling. I would parallel out the driver x 3 and run at 1100ma per string, not sure on your driver how that plays re voltage but that would give you plenty of light and remain efficient
Cheers
Mark

Thanks, on another question. I see the wattage rating for the drivers, is this cumulative like fwd V , as If running 4 diodes @ 10 watts each would I need a driver rated for 40 watts?

 

[welight]

Thanks, on another question. I see the wattage rating for the drivers, is this cumulative like fwd V , as If running 4 diodes @ 10 watts each would I need a driver rated for 40 watts?

yes what ever your total wattage(system) is required, is what it is, irrespective of how you chop it up
Cheers
Mark

 

[ANC]

 

[burnpile]

I feel stupid that this is hard to grasp, if I want to run 5pcs 50 w 32v/36v cobs at 40w each what driver would do this? preferably with dimming so I could go down to 20w each. The 40 w is just a approx, plan on just a finned heat sink so didn't want to much wattage. I think maybe a hlg-185h-700 would run them at about 25w each? These are some cheap ass cobs so a cheaper driver would be good also.


Current: 3750mA/1250mA

Voltage: DC12-14V,DC30-36V

Color ratio:full spectrum 380nm-840nm

 

[Randomblame]

@burnpile
Meanwell ELG-200-C1050B is a bit cheaper and good if you have a 220v connection. I would not save on drivers, cheap COB's probably work for years, cheap drivers does not!

https://www.mouser.com/ProductDetail/Mean-Well/ELG-200-C1050B/?qs=sGAEpiMZZMs2%2bVrH5rwl1l7OMla5VDQOYdG8mG8/glXDwymxUkykCg==

@1050mA each 32/36v COB would run at ~36w(~34v).

You can also use a cheap e3ay 36v/5A CV driver to drive them in parallel but I do not know how high the voltage/resistance differences are between these cheap fullspectrum COB's.
500-1000mA is probably the sweet spot.
You can get 10packs for ~20$, an ELG-200 costs ~50-55$ shipped and if you run 2 parallel strings of 5 COB's they would run with only 525mA. Benefits? That's ~5% more efficient, you get a more even coverage, COB's needs less cooling effort @525mA(17w) and you could safely reduce the distance to the canopy without the risk of blanching them, which results in increase PAR levels.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/50W-Full-Spectrum-LED-COB-chip-DC12V-32V-Integrated-Smart-IC-Driver-220V-110V/322658790343?hash=item4b1ff66bc7:m:mimPgeDXE3mSW3xSy8YYRAg

 

[mahiluana]

500-1000mA is probably the sweet spot.

I would buy 100pcs for $US 111,15 and drive them @ 2W each.
The incredible low price, and the higher light efficiency of low current -
makes it possible to create a led board without heatsink at all, because @2W you can take the chip into your mouth without burning your lips.

The layers of those < 1800K are much denser than layers with higher kelvins.
And their LES will get too hot even @ 50% current (750mA)
Once you see the silicone shows little points of heat damaged above the single led chips -
they will get bigger and bigger in the thermal runaway.

100 chip platines with 16-20cm² each = 50 x 40cm led board

If we estimate, that light efficiency of these cobs @ max. current is ~ 80-85LM / W
and light efficiency increase ~ 10% @ 50% current -

With 100 chips and 200W driver @ 4% of max. current I calculate ~120-130LM / W
or even more, because low current helps specially low kelvins chips.


you see 5x100W + 1x50W on the right // paralell with a 10W driver / 28-48Vf / 300-350mA

550 x 1w chips @ ~Vf 2,8 * 6,36mA each // (1,7% of max. current)

 

[Dave455]

I would buy 100pcs for $US 111,15 and drive them @ 2W each.
The incredible low price, and the higher light efficiency of low current -
makes it possible to create a led board without heatsink at all, because @2W you can take the chip into your mouth without burning your lips.

The layers of those < 1800K are much denser than layers with higher kelvins.
And their LES will get too hot even @ 50% current (750mA)
Once you see the silicone shows little points of heat damaged above the single led chips -
they will get bigger and bigger in the thermal runaway.

100 chip platines with 16-20cm² each = 50 x 40cm led board

If we estimate, that light efficiency of these cobs @ max. current is ~ 80-85LM / W
and light efficiency increase ~ 10% @ 50% current -

With 100 chips and 200W driver @ 4% of max. current I calculate ~120-130LM / W
or even more, because low current helps specially low kelvins chips.

View attachment 4121862
you see 5x100W + 1x50W on the right // paralell with a 10W driver / 28-48Vf / 300-350mA

550 x 1w chips @ ~Vf 2,8 * 6,36mA each // (1,7% of max. current)

'
Why not get some quantum board 132's from HLG and be done with it !!

 

[mahiluana]

quantum board 132's from HLG

because for $US 111,15 you get ~3 x 132 boards and you have to drive them close to max. current to reach 200W - cheap chinise prices for 3,8 cent/w is a strong argument against
50 cent/w of HLG

also the spectrum of 2700K has lower par values than < 1800K red phosphor cobs.

 

[Randomblame]

I would buy 100pcs for $US 111,15 and drive them @ 2W each.
The incredible low price, and the higher light efficiency of low current -
makes it possible to create a led board without heatsink at all, because @2W you can take the chip into your mouth without burning your lips.

The layers of those < 1800K are much denser than layers with higher kelvins.
And their LES will get too hot even @ 50% current (750mA)
Once you see the silicone shows little points of heat damaged above the single led chips -
they will get bigger and bigger in the thermal runaway.

100 chip platines with 16-20cm² each = 50 x 40cm led board

If we estimate, that light efficiency of these cobs @ max. current is ~ 80-85LM / W
and light efficiency increase ~ 10% @ 50% current -

With 100 chips and 200W driver @ 4% of max. current I calculate ~120-130LM / W
or even more, because low current helps specially low kelvins chips.

View attachment 4121862
you see 5x100W + 1x50W on the right // paralell with a 10W driver / 28-48Vf / 300-350mA

550 x 1w chips @ ~Vf 2,8 * 6,36mA each // (1,7% of max. current)

Yeah, we've already talked about that topic but I don't want recommend him to wire 100 COB's in parallel. He want it cheap and with 10 FS COB's(5s2p) and an ELG-200-C1050B he could get away with ~80$.
The COB's should deliver ~100lm/w at ⅓ the nominal current(500mA) and together with the ELG it should run for a few of years.
BTW, these 2nd. generation full spectrum COB's have twice as much diodes. 50w chip comes with 100 diodes, 70w with 140. The latter is sometimes sold as 100w COB. There is also a 12v version with 120diodes(4s30p/50w) which is interesting. But I would not use them anyway, maybe as supplemental light for flowering but not as mainlight.

 

[mahiluana]

want recommend him to wire 100 COB's in parallel. He want it cheap

It`s cheap and easy to wire 100 cobs...

if you are able then to increase light efficiency let`s say about 40% (100LM ---> 140LM)

Driving a 200W lamp with 100LM/W ~15h a day cost you 1095KWh / year
To produce the same amount of light with a 140LM/W lamp you need only 142W lamp fixture,
that cost you 777KWh / year. Where I live 1KWh cost me 30 cent or even more.

After 7 years I save $US 667,- only in electricity // my 100cob lamp maybe is still alive and keep saving money, because better heat management ---> is longlife ---> better light- + energy efficiency with a better spread of cooler light ---> closer to canopy ---> rising > 40% --->
and the difference between 1cob40W @ 20cm and 10cob4W @ 5cm can be enormeous.
Up to you to calculate the difference in PPFD of 40% more light @ 25% of distance (factor 20 ???) http://dev.edman007.com/~edman007/pub/par-dli-cal.html

And (in a scrog or sog) better than 100 cobs = "only" 200 cobs ( i wouldn`t solder - I screw them on metall bars).

 

[Randomblame]

Easy...!? Maybe for you and me, but for sure not for everyone...
Cable management with 10 parallel strings can be very complicated, especially for electro noobs.
Based on his question, I think that he could be a bit overwhelmed with such a big circuit layout. And if it was all about efficiency, then he would certainly have formulated his question differently.
He wants it cheap and he has not mentioned electricity costs...
And honestly, you always come with the same stuff around the corner, mate. Your ultra low-driven no-name COB's, water cooling and making cheap hot water. It seems that you respond to my answer, rather than to his original question.

There are always ways to do something "even better" but not everyone is willing to invest more time, money and effort therefor.

 

[mahiluana]

especially for electro noobs.

it might be of interest to know what they want - before...

willing to invest more time, money and effort therefor.

water cooling and making cheap hot water

... is a mighty tool to triple the energy efficacy of a led lamp build.

So any watercooled led lamp (not only mine) are olympic *****world*****champions in this
discipline - and my watercooled lamps are made for to execute fosile energy in house+building management.
It`s not only a great pleasure to substitute stinking, dusty, CO² producing oil and gas by clean renewables -
it`s also a great buisness !!!

I live 1000km in the north of Rome in a 80m² apartment with my girl.
I pay ~ 900 Euros for hot water + heating with the oil central heating.

With 12m² of solar panels, 3 x 300w led lamp + heatexchanger (3000,-Euros)
all mounted by myself i may be able to save US$ ~25000,- during the next 30 years
+ lots of fresh bio-crop specially during winter

Enough arguments to say it again and again to people hanging around on riu to discuss
months and years about the silly difference of 2700K and 3000K chips.

I`m not shure if the stupid and dumb ignorance of an american president - concerning the climate change
can be toped by the stupid and dumb, ignorant 50% of citizens, that voted this criminal ???


- I guess you know and can !!!

 

[Randomblame]

it might be of interest to know what they want - before...





... is a mighty tool to triple the energy efficacy of a led lamp build.

So any watercooled led lamp (not only mine) are olympic *****world*****champions in this
discipline - and my watercooled lamps are made for to execute fosile energy in house+building management.
It`s not only a great pleasure to substitute stinking, dusty, CO² producing oil and gas by clean renewables -
it`s also a great buisness !!!

I live 1000km in the north of Rome in a 80m² apartment with my girl.
I pay ~ 900 Euros for hot water + heating with the oil central heating.

With 12m² of solar panels, 3 x 300w led lamp + heatexchanger (3000,-Euros)
all mounted by myself i may be able to save US$ ~25000,- during the next 30 years
+ lots of fresh bio-crop specially during winter

Enough arguments to say it again and again to people hanging around on riu to discuss
months and years about the silly difference of 2700K and 3000K chips.

I`m not shure if the stupid and dumb ignorance of an american president - concerning the climate change
can be toped by the stupid and dumb, ignorant 50% of citizens, that voted this criminal ???


- I guess you know and can !!!

Do not get me wrong, mate! Water-cooling could save the world if the mighty of the world would finaly dictate it to the industries. I love water cooling my PC and I'm sure I'll build something for my own soon (we talked about using the heat for my mum's greenhouse). But you came unsolicited and his question was readable for everyone, (if you're not set to "ignore"). Nothing more, nothing less! I just wanted to avoid that you present your old pictures again and again.

BTW,
Haha, 1000km in the north of rome is good, LMFAO!
I'm 500km east of London... so we're actually neighbors, lol!

 

[mahiluana]

actually neighbors

hello random nice to meet you in my neighborhood...

dictate it to the industries

you mean something like to forbid incandescent bulbs in EU ?
i`m shure in Eu - parlament they know nothing about watercooled led light.


so my strategy is more a basic movement of citizens, that are able to recognize the advantages described above, and then realize dozens - thousands - and millions of watercooled greenhouses to heat buildings worldwide.

Light - heat - cogeneration is a very good buisness for any house owner -
if it works in my 80m² flat - it works everywhere.

I`m not the first to create a watercooled light and i hope - not to be the last.
There are 1001 ways to realize a design for individuel needs - and
the win win situation for climate change + the own bank account + homemade herbs
+ the ability to put pressure (dictate) on industrial energy- and food-production -
makes me believe, that worldwide there is enough people to manage that.

With plug & play pv-panels,
hanging a heatexchanger on the wall -
cutting, drilling, screwing aluminium,
connecting tubes and hoses...

in ~ 40h / 1 week only - you can make ~25000,- EUR in the future.

The investment of 3000,- EUR / 80m² / 2 pers. is not really high compared to an oil or gas heater.

...or do you all earn > 120000,- USSS$$$ a month

 

[Randomblame]

No, I do not mean LED, I mean water cooling in general. Wherever it's possible air-cooled equipment and industrial equipment should be water cooled and heat energy should be recovered. Imagine how many households a single steel factory could provide with hot water...
Direct conversion of heat into electric energy is far too inefficient currently and there should be a lot more research in this area.
Climate change is not just caused by increased CO² ...

hello random nice to meet you in my neighborhood...



you mean something like to forbid incandescent bulbs in EU ?
i`m shure in Eu - parlament they know nothing about watercooled led light.


so my strategy is more a basic movement of citizens, that are able to recognize the advantages described above, and then realize dozens - thousands - and millions of watercooled greenhouses to heat buildings worldwide.

Light - heat - cogeneration is a very good buisness for any house owner -
if it works in my 80m² flat - it works everywhere.

I`m not the first to create a watercooled light and i hope - not to be the last.
There are 1001 ways to realize a design for individuel needs - and
the win win situation for climate change + the own bank account + homemade herbs
+ the ability to put pressure (dictate) on industrial energy- and food-production -
makes me believe, that worldwide there is enough people to manage that.

With plug & play pv-panels,
hanging a heatexchanger on the wall -
cutting, drilling, screwing aluminium,
connecting tubes and hoses...

in ~ 40h / 1 week only - you can make ~25000,- EUR in the future.

The investment of 3000,- EUR / 80m² / 2 pers. is not really high compared to an oil or gas heater.

...or do you all earn > 120000,- USSS$$$ a month

 

[Moflow]

BTW,
Haha, 1000km in the north of rome is good, LMFAO!
I'm 500km east of London... so we're actually neighbors, lol!

Careful lads..... or you'l give away your location! Lol
Think I might have been an ex neighbour from way back, early eighties when Goldie the Gypsy frequented the Nienburg area.

Long time ago now....
​

 

[Randomblame]

LMFAO, only a third has to go in for a triangulation .., lol!
My much too early deceased woman was born in Nienburg. Nice little town but there is nothing going on because it's sooo small.

Here you can revel for a bit in the good old 80's, close you eyes, mate, and shake your booty, yea!
Top1 Hits 80er: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLTwOWfXpBzfs7oVTV-y8rB0CRJuVyISea

And do you still know the typical prejudices like all germans wearing leather pants and drink beer ..? Here are a few more!

When I think of my first car, an Alfa Romeo Bertone Junior, my heart hurts. Or my Kawasaki H1, was a 750cc 3-cylinder two-stroke, 84PS, brutal as first bike! This hell of a mashine has brought me a broken arm and clavicle, lol!
Good old times..

That was one of my favorite songs back then, loved New Wave, Punk and Gothic ..., with my Billy Idol blond colored stubbles, lol!

 

[Moflow]

 

[Moflow]

A wee bit earlier than Nina and little more relaxing......

I don't drink much at all now, a can of beer a week maybe but I loved Korn and Appel Korn especially........ mmmm!

@Randomblame , Prejudice....? But funny in its day.
I hope no one is offended.
do you remember Basil Fawlty in BBCs comedy sitom show
"Fawlty Towers?"
Don't Mention the War...

 

[GBAUTO]

When I think of my first car, an Alfa Romeo Bertone Junior, my heart hurts. Or my Kawasaki H1, was a 750cc 3-cylinder two-stroke, 84PS, brutal as first bike! This hell of a mashine has brought me a broken arm and clavicle, lol!
Good old times..

The 500 was the H1 and the 750 was the H2-both could be called 'Widowmakers'-definitely needed 'Balls of Steel' to ride either of them.