Woke up and plant is looking horrible any help please

[Littlebirdie]

I have babies this plant and got it back to good condition so many times. She’s in a coco/ perlite mixture. GH nutes phd to 5.9. She was doing great 2 days ago and it’s downhill from there. I don’t even know what’s wrong with her at this point.

 

[4(207)]

Looks like pH fluctuation or root problems.

Sorry mate!

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

yup, one or the other.
ph issues are easy to fix. check your ph meter, makes sure it's accurate. if it is, and you're checking your water after you add your nutes, then its probably root issues. in soil i'd get some hydroguard and some earth worm castings. add the hydroguard at the recommended strength first couple of times, then cut it in half. make some aact (aerobically activated compost tea) with the earth worm castings once a week and use it while its fresh.

 

[Tim1987]

Hey @Littlebirdie.
I'd do what the guys say.
Otherwise, it may be time to hit em with a dose of calmag, or up the feed. I need to give calmag every now and then with my hard water (maybe 6 times a grow).
I mostly supplement magnesium though.
It looks like you need a little of both.
It can happen from unwashed coco too. Potassium, can inhibit calcium and magnesium.
Give me a few minutes ill upload a great article i found a few days ago.
I'll upload a very handy chart as well.

 

[Tim1987]

http://www.canna.com.au/growing_on_coco_busting_the_myth

and-


Sorry about the news
I hope you find your problem.

 

[Blitz35]

Hey @Littlebirdie.
I'd do what the guys say.
Otherwise, it may be time to hit em with a dose of calmag, or up the feed. I need to give calmag every now and then with my hard water (maybe 6 times a grow).
I mostly supplement magnesium though.
It looks like you need a little of both.
It can happen from unwashed coco too. Potassium, can inhibit calcium and magnesium.
Give me a few minutes ill upload a great article i found a few days ago.
I'll upload a very handy chart as well.

Too much potassium would also cause other issues that would be noticeable, like really skinny new growth..and also iron, zinc and manganese deficiencies. It seems she's not getting enough phosphorus which can be because of lack of magnesium as well..you do have that 2nd pic which shows possibly Mag missing. But ya, some of the leaves do look a bit odd, which can be from ph swings or a root problem. Keep us posted.

 

[Tim1987]

Too much potassium would also cause other issues that would be noticeable, like really skinny new growth..and also iron, zinc and manganese deficiencies. It seems she's not getting enough phosphorus which can be because of lack of magnesium as well..you do have that 2nd pic which shows possibly Mag missing. But ya, some of the leaves do look a bit odd, which can be from ph swings or a root problem. Keep us posted.

TBH
I always buy the coir blocks. I've never bought the ready-to-go stuff.
Whenever i havn't washed my coir properly, and got rid of all the salts before potting, this is exactly how they look, a little further down the line.
To me it looks like your coir has leeched salts. Mainly sodium and potassium.
Im sorry littlebird, i do hope im wrong.
Best wishes mate.
You can buy sodium chloride, test strips for pools, to check your runoff. Id suggest getting some of those too. They might work for straight sodium too. Its worth a shot.

 

[Blitz35]

TBH
I always buy the coir blocks. I've never bought the ready-to-go stuff.
Whenever i havn't washed my coir properly, and got rid of all the salts before potting, this is exactly how they look, a little further down the line.
To me it looks like your coir has leeched salts. Mainly sodium and potassium.
Im sorry littlebird, i do hope im wrong.
Best wishes mate.
You can buy sodium chloride, test strips for pools, to check your runoff. Id suggest getting some of those too.

Ya, most blocks have to be rinsed...i haven't grown in exclusively coco, but sodium can be an issue for sure, and sodium does compete with the likes of magnesium and potassium, in that case, i'd think, in coco, to flush with a cal mag solution to rid the medium of the sodium and replace the exchange sites with calcium and magnesium instead. I guess it would help to know the dosage and frequency of feeds to now..and lights, temps, humidity.

 

[Littlebirdie]

I checked the runoff PH and its at 6.4. Every set of the huge leaves died real quick. They were thinner than gift paper in hours. I ended up pulling them off because they were not doing any good for the plant. So now all I have is a thick healthy green stem with healthy new growth. Its sad but I believe the plant is now extremely stunted and the new growth is not getting bigger like it was in the first part of my grow. At this point I feel like it would take another 3 months to veg this thing to where I would like it to be. I might have to chalk this one up as a failure... Im probably going to go with soil next instead of coco for my first. Coco was so much harder than I anticipated. Ill revisit coco again once I feel more comfortable, but I think I just need to see some results to cheer me up. My ph never got out of hand really. The magnesium def I fixed and supplemented some epsom in my feedings. The GH nutes were also a lot stronger than I thought, Ill go with way less than the recommended amount next time. I do have 5 auto northern light seeds. The first thing I grew was NL in soil and that strain was not picky about anything it just grew. Ill include a pic of the failure plant I have now in its current state.

 

[Tim1987]

Hey mate.
You'd still have a lot of roots in the pot. You'd be surprised how fast, they can spring right back. It could just be, a matter of a week or two.
Good news, the new growth is good.
Imho, 6.4ph is quite high. If you were feeding solution at 5.8, or so, the ph inside the pot, is more likely 7ish.
Its important, for runoff, to read the same, as your feed, each time.
Good your plant is recovering, none the less.

 

[Littlebirdie]

Hey mate.
You'd still have a lot of roots in the pot. You'd be surprised how fast, they can spring right back. It could just be, a matter of a week or two.
Good news, the new growth is good.
Imho, 6.4ph is quite high. If you were feeding solution at 5.8, or so, the ph inside the pot, is more likely 7ish.
Its important, for runoff, to read the same, as your feed, each time.
Good your plant is recovering, none the less.

How do I get it to match my 5.8 in the runoff?

 

[Tim1987]

Thats the tricky part.
Its pretty hard to get it down, once its been building for a while.
You're best off, doing it slowly. Over several days. By flushing, each feed.
If your nutrients havnt been too strong, the same strength should be fine.
Just do it all, slow, and gentle. Dry it a day or two between flushes also.
Its gotta be a gradual thing.
It can be pretty stubborn, but it will come down.

 

[xtsho]

How do I get it to match my 5.8 in the runoff?

Don't worry about the runoff. Worry about what's going in. If you prepare the coco properly and water with properly PH'd nutrient solution you shouldn't have any problems.
How are you testing the PH of the nutrient solution? When was the last time you checked the calibration of your PH pen if that's what your using?

I've been growing in coco for years with great results. It's a great growing medium. I have never checked the PH of the runoff. I only worry about what goes in. Not the waste runoff. You'll do more harm than good and waste time trying to adjust things based on the runoff.

 

[Tim1987]

Don't worry about the runoff. Worry about what's going in. If you prepare the coco properly and water with properly PH'd nutrient solution you shouldn't have any problems.
How are you testing the PH of the nutrient solution? When was the last time you checked the calibration of your PH pen if that's what your using?

I've been growing in coco for years with great results. It's a great growing medium. I have never checked the PH of the runoff. I only worry about what goes in. Not the waste runoff. You'll do more harm than good and waste time trying to adjust things based on the runoff.

I agree that if you are an experienced gardener, you shouldn't need to.
But what if his coco's leeching salt, and thats why his ph is high?
Runoff is especially handy if you dont know WTF is going on in your coco.
I check my runoff ph, every time for peace of mind. 99% of the time its exactly the same.
Whenever its different, i know something's up.
What if the ppm in your runoff is higher? Know what i mean.
You and I @xtsho can notice what our plants generally need.
But for a beginner knowing ph and ppm of your runoff, or medium, is essential. Not only do they help find what it is, you learn a lot faster too.

 

[Littlebirdie]

Don't worry about the runoff. Worry about what's going in. If you prepare the coco properly and water with properly PH'd nutrient solution you shouldn't have any problems.
How are you testing the PH of the nutrient solution? When was the last time you checked the calibration of your PH pen if that's what your using?

I've been growing in coco for years with great results. It's a great growing medium. I have never checked the PH of the runoff. I only worry about what goes in. Not the waste runoff. You'll do more harm than good and waste time trying to adjust things based on the runoff.

I calibrate it every week with 2 different ph buffer solutions. I have religiously kept the Ph at 5.8 with nutes. I had a mag def in the beginning, but it got fixed when I added some epsom salts in my nutes for a good week, which is strange because people are saying that it still looked like I had a mag def in the end.

 

[Littlebirdie]

Now that this is becoming more of an experiment, I flushed 30 gallons of 5.8 water through the plant. The ph never came down it went UP lmao. It was at 6.4 now Im at 6.8. Either my ph meter is all screwed up or I dont understand chemistry..

 

[Tim1987]

Deficiency and lockouts, can look exactly the same, in the early stages.
It isn't until, its much worse that you can tell, which it is.

 

[Tim1987]

Now that this is becoming more of an experiment, I flushed 30 gallons of 5.8 water through the plant. The ph never came down it went UP lmao. It was at 6.4 now Im at 6.8. Either my ph meter is all screwed up or I dont understand chemistry..

How much K is in your bottle?
Do you know the ppm of your tap water?

 

[xtsho]

Now that this is becoming more of an experiment, I flushed 30 gallons of 5.8 water through the plant. The ph never came down it went UP lmao. It was at 6.4 now Im at 6.8. Either my ph meter is all screwed up or I dont understand chemistry..

You shouldn't flush straight water through coco once you're growing in it. It messes things up.

Tim1987 already posted this link http://www.canna.com.au/growing_on_coco_busting_the_myth

Here is what I'm referring to:

"Consider the coco as needing to be ‘fed’ along with the plants. Once the medium establishes a buffer, which it will do based on the nutrients it detects as right or wrong; the grower can wipe this out by applying plain water to the medium. The medium hangs on to nothing and will readily flush away its nutrients; then the plant will suffer until the buffer is restored.

Always use fertiliser when you water coco that a plant is actively growing in, at least at about EC=0.6 mS/cm3. This will hold the balance or ratio of the nutrients to each other and ensure that the plant gets exactly what it needs."

 

[Tim1987]

I agree, yes.
I usually buffer back to about 400ppm.
But, pleanty of people do clean flushes too.
Its fine if you're charging it back up, staight after.
Once coco's saturated, its almost completely inert.
I definitely agree, that to flush it plain, then leave it is no good, and causes issues. Especially RO.