Greenpoint seeds!!

AmericanGrower508

AmericanGrower508

Well-Known Member
ok as for clones. The reason most do better than seed plants is because the clone is a mature plant. But like I said before not all clones do grow better.
As for genetic drift of clones, through many discussions through out the years. The only change that I know of is clones degrading from bacteria, cause by environment or dirty cloning tools ie razor .
 
Cold$moke

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
I know i grew a 20 year clone before and other then being fantastic flavor profile and decent high

It was one of the weakest plants i ever grew
Granted i wouldnt call the grower i got it from good either lol


This is why i first asked genuity about it

Because some guys dont let their girls grow for 3 months before they flip the fist time
Not saying you have to but this is why i was asking.

And like i said if it actually increased anything

WHEN WOULD THE CUT OFF BE FOR IMPROVEMENT? 3 months 6 ? A year, 10 years?

I understand most couldnt answer my question


Thats why i hate such definitive answers without data to back it if you cant back it dont


Cheers all
i wont muck the thread up anymore with this drivel since its not really answers
And peace :peace::weed::twisted:
 
4

40AmpstoFreedom

Well-Known Member
Cold$moke said:
I know i grew a 20 year clone before and other then being fantastic flavor profile and decent high

It was one of the weakest plants i ever grew
Granted i wouldnt call the grower i got it from good either lol


This is why i first asked genuity about it

Because some guys dont let their girls grow for 3 months before they flip the fist time
Not saying you have to but this is why i was asking.

And like i said if it actually increased anything

WHEN WOULD THE CUT OFF BE FOR IMPROVEMENT? 3 months 6 ? A year, 10 years?

I understand most couldnt answer my question


Thats why i hate such definitive answers without data to back it if you cant back it dont


Cheers all
i wont muck the thread up anymore with this drivel since its not really answers
And peace :peace::weed::twisted:
Click to expand...
Your question was answered you simply did not understand or comprehend what was written. Cut off for improvement? Huh? What improvement? A clone improves over time?

Something is clearly not being understood if you are still asking about something that doesn't even exist. Where you got that a clone improves over time in your head is beyond me.

And while I perfectly understand wanting empirical evidence I need to be paid for my time at that point or the research needs to be done by the person asking. I certainly will not go look up all the research papers and various threads used by the people I mentioned. It was there it was interesting this was many years ago. They are out there. You seem quite interested so just go do it. Most people probably aren't going to in a GP seeds thread. Probably better asking in a real forum based around advanced techniques and botany of cannabis. There should be one on icmag I believe...
 
thenotsoesoteric

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
Cold$moke said:
Yes but taking away the cherry factor does that mean the plant was better the 2nd go

or the grower is more prepared for it on the second round?

I get that you will always usually "grow" it better on the second round.

But does the plant really "improve" ?

Not being snarky im genuinely interested.

Has it been tested?

Edit to add : or is it because now the plant is genetically a little older by a few months?

If so when does the genetic age "improvment" stop ?
Click to expand...
Here is an example of what they're talking about. My berry wine cut of my miyagi cross was foxtailed like a mofo on the seed run even though winter temps were steady 72ish, meanwhile the clone run has more compact dense nugs with temps up around 78ish.

Plus clone run has more of a fruity smell this time and less haze than seed run and was about 1 or 1 1/2 weeks faster in flower.

Seed run foxtails
bridge.jpg
Clone run
bvc.jpg
 
Cold$moke

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
40AmpstoFreedom said:
Your question was answered you simply did not understand or comprehend what was written. Cut off for improvement? Huh? What improvement? A clone improves over time?

Something is clearly not being understood if you are still asking about something that doesn't even exist. Where you got that a clone improves over time in your head is beyond me.

And while I perfectly understand wanting empirical evidence I need to be paid for my time at that point or the research needs to be done by the person asking. I certainly will not go look up all the research papers and various threads used by the people I mentioned. It was there it was interesting this was many years ago. They are out there. You seem quite interested so just go do it. Most people probably aren't going to in a GP seeds thread. Probably better asking in a real forum based around advanced techniques and botany of cannabis. There should be one on icmag I believe...
Click to expand...
You didnt even need to respond im over it :)
 
Cold$moke

Cold$moke

Well-Known Member
thenotsoesoteric said:
Here is an example of what they're talking about. My berry wine cut of my miyagi cross was foxtailed like a mofo on the seed run even though winter temps were steady 72ish, meanwhile the clone run has more compact dense nugs with temps up around 78ish.

Plus clone run has more of a fruity smell this time and less haze than seed run and was about 1 or 1 1/2 weeks faster in flower.

Seed run foxtails
View attachment 4117998
Clone run
View attachment 4117999
Click to expand...
I get that but the way he had said it you get gains in such things as
40AmpstoFreedom said:
It grows frostier, matures quicker, and stretches less even if all parameters stay. This is fact and something that is very evident to nearly everyone who grows a lot from seed and clones. It's been very common knowledge for probably 30+ years. It is very evident to master organic growers who get killer results every time regardless of plant strain.

Growing it "better" generally entails "dialing it in" which entails people growing with chems. A constant guessing game the majority of the time because most people refuse to keep it simple stupid as we call it. K.I.S.S.



This is true and near exactly what I said. One difference being is you generally don't get "whatever". You get punnet squares, very noticeable result of standard ratios (I am not going to spend time explaining this). We call it hybrid vigor...F1 vigor...for a reason. The more inbred the less you will yield and the less vigor you will get as well as less variety (inbreeding depression). Unless of course you hybridize a low vigor strain with a low vigor strain. IE OGKB x Bubba Kush will undoubtedly result in a plant that will grow as slow as a fuckin sequoia tree in the winter (almost 0 stretch, complete shit yield, but of amazing quality buds). I always go for F1's when possible aside from very land race based strains that you won't notice much vigor reduction at all even around F9.

This is why most people in the AG industry don't sell to the public until F4 plus. They save the awesome gene pool for themselves to fully work and explore while giving the customer a more specific and 'stabilized' product. IE the reason that DP and Sensi have multiple versions skunk from Skunk #1-whatever to Orange Skunk to Pineapple Skunk list goes on...

In short the vast majority of time:

F1's = more variation and more vigor
F4+ = less variation and less vigor.

Edit: Wanted to add something. I don't think a lot of inexperienced people out there or even people with a lot of experience, but just with American genetics, have any clue what good yield is...Try growing some MNS Critical Skunk (insane yields), Shit, Afghan x Skunk, Haze x Skunk, Haze x Afghani, or Northern lights, KC brains Mango or many of his other lines, Serious Seeds AK47 m/f versions, White Russian, ....That shit will blow your mind as far as yield goes. I could keep listing for days. Lots of Dutch genetics are just out of this world yield compared to modern American genes as of late. That is what landrace brings to the table though and why it is so important to have a broad healthy gene pool.
Click to expand...
 
thenotsoesoteric

thenotsoesoteric

Well-Known Member
Cold$moke said:
I get that but the way he had said it you get gains in such things as
Click to expand...
I've noticed enhancements in flavors and sometimes resin production but I definitely feel that the plant blossoms much later than 1- 1.5 months that most small indoor growers typically flower seedlings.

I've personally never had a seed run outshine a clone run in overall quality of product. I have had seed runs out yield clone runs with roughly the same veg time but I think that might be seed vigor and only with particular phenos.
 
blissfest

blissfest

Well-Known Member
40AmpstoFreedom said:
It grows frostier, matures quicker, and stretches less even if all parameters stay. This is fact and something that is very evident to nearly everyone who grows a lot from seed and clones. It's been very common knowledge for probably 30+ years. It is very evident to master organic growers who get killer results every time regardless of plant strain.

Growing it "better" generally entails "dialing it in" which entails people growing with chems. A constant guessing game the majority of the time because most people refuse to keep it simple stupid as we call it. K.I.S.S.



This is true and near exactly what I said. One difference being is you generally don't get "whatever". You get punnet squares, very noticeable result of standard ratios (I am not going to spend time explaining this). We call it hybrid vigor...F1 vigor...for a reason. The more inbred the less you will yield and the less vigor you will get as well as less variety (inbreeding depression). Unless of course you hybridize a low vigor strain with a low vigor strain. IE OGKB x Bubba Kush will undoubtedly result in a plant that will grow as slow as a fuckin sequoia tree in the winter (almost 0 stretch, complete shit yield, but of amazing quality buds). I always go for F1's when possible aside from very land race based strains that you won't notice much vigor reduction at all even around F9.

This is why most people in the AG industry don't sell to the public until F4 plus. They save the awesome gene pool for themselves to fully work and explore while giving the customer a more specific and 'stabilized' product. IE the reason that DP and Sensi have multiple versions skunk from Skunk #1-whatever to Orange Skunk to Pineapple Skunk list goes on...

In short the vast majority of time:

F1's = more variation and more vigor
F4+ = less variation and less vigor.

Edit: Wanted to add something. I don't think a lot of inexperienced people out there or even people with a lot of experience, but just with American genetics, have any clue what good yield is...Try growing some MNS Critical Skunk (insane yields), Shit, Afghan x Skunk, Haze x Skunk, Haze x Afghani, or Northern lights, KC brains Mango or many of his other lines, Serious Seeds AK47 m/f versions, White Russian, ....That shit will blow your mind as far as yield goes. I could keep listing for days. Lots of Dutch genetics are just out of this world yield compared to modern American genes as of late. That is what landrace brings to the table though and why it is so important to have a broad healthy gene pool.
Click to expand...
I have grown all of that? I grew Nevil's flagship "Northern Lights" all the numbers, in the 80's.
The shit we have now in the United States crushes Dutch bullshit weed. It all came from here anyway? You need a history lesson? We already had the weed, and it was taken to Amsterdam. Then those idiots raped us to buy seed from them, lol.
 
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