How important are genetics?

[Michael Huntherz]

I've always been able to grow nice looking weed.. always been a firm, dense, nice looking nug. I've never had good weed (bag seed), so even though it looks beautiful.. it never smoked right. Now that I purchased proven clones that people have grown 24%+ THC with.. does that mean I should expect around the same THC since I can grow from start to finish without anything major happening? I'm just wondering if I can expect the same results, or do I have to be growing in soil with advanced nutrients and the best lights, etc., etc.

Sorry for triple posting. Forget about AN, they have good marketing, but their nutrients aren’t magic, nor are they worth the money.
Consider these:
Mega Crop
Chem Gro
Jack’s
Or something similar.

 

[ChefKimbo]

Even still, has alot to do with the grower.

I know a guy used to get regs from periodically in the days of desperation.

Same smoke for atleast 15 years without fail.

Sprouted a few for my very first grow.

Found a high yielding, fast growing, very terpy mango guava strain with a lost lasting high.

Used to get clones from her in soil much faster than what i get now.

I dumped that strain like an idiot because i ran out of room under the lights.

Not saying it was better than the connoisseur strains i have, but i could have run it for high grade with no problem.

 

[Sir72]

Thanks for the input! Like I said, I grow some nice looking stuff, but none of my nice looking bag seed has ever worked for me medically. I still purchase overpriced dispensary weed that is hit-or-miss.

I'm hoping that since I finally tossed a bit of money at clones with proven lab results showing 22-27%+ that I should be at least able to grow something 20%+.

I just use the simple GH A&B, CALMAG, and Liquid KoolBloom.. and I believe my lighting is sufficient.

It’s not even about the percentage of the thc so don’t get caught up in that. It’s about the entire cannabiniod profile combined with the terpene profile. What’re you trying to treat or relive?

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

i totally agree, while thc is the base of the raw potential, if that's all there is, you're just going to get a chest pounding, anxiety filled paranoia ride. cbn, cbd, terpenes, and a whole list of associated cannabinoids are what tone it down, and add the enjoyable aspects of the high. and the ratio of those is what makes weed good for different things, from sleeping to nausea control, to stopping seizures.

 

[JohnCee]

[...] But im sill curious, so what your set up size? What light are you using? in all honesty im sure those clones will grow good since you seems to know what you are doing and getting a better genetic definitively will impact your end result

I have two rooms that I could be using, both are exactly the same size, 4'x4'x6'. I have a 315w CMH, and a junk mars LED panel in one room, figure about 415-425w of light all in one room. In the other room I currently just have my 4' 2 bulb T5 running, but I also have a 400w HPS that I would run in the second room in place of the T5.

If I remember correctly years back there was a thread where someone was growing out shwag seeds and repeatedly coming up with some heat.

Are shwag seeds in reference to a good breeder or something? I've grown a handful of bag seed now and I've had some really tasty, nice looking, and dank smelling bud, however I've never had one where the initial effects lasted longer than 15-30 minutes. That guy must have had some amazing luck, or great stock to start from in my opinion.

Just a newb so take it as you will, but I'd say genetics is your max potential for quality, like if you grew a bag seed and some good ass strain(call it 'x'), and had everything dialed in you'd grow good plants for each but the x would more than likely be better as it was bred out for higher thc or something like that, probably get very similar yields as that's the light's factor but quality would be better for x. That's just how I see it.

I've kind of always looked at it the same time way to be honest with you. I've had a couple of plants span across one light into the next, and you are able to tell the difference in bud size between the junk LED panel and my 315w CMH. I'm planning on replacing the junk LED panel when I get a bit of extra cash. I considered throwing the HPS and CMH light into the same room, however that creates a whole new set of problems.

A Clone is the exact same as it's mother, so "technically" you should produce the exact same bud. However that is if your growing process is exactly the same, and your drying/curing process is exactly the same. Every aspect, every bump in the road, will lead to deviations.
...Generally speaking you should* get something similar if you do it justice.

Genetics imo. are the upper threshold of how dank your product can possible be. Give any one grower two beans, good genetics and bad genetics, the good genetics will out-perform in the exact same environment.

As far as medicinal, you need to experiment and see what strains work for you. Maybe try a gram of a few different varieties from a dispensary. Then try to get beans/clones for those strains, or crosses of those strains... and then find a nice pheno!

I've done a bit of shopping around to figure out which strains work well for me, and I did pick up 3 clones (spent $150) that I've sampled before and seen lab results on, Chemdog '91 (SkunkVA Cut), Do-Si-Dos (Norcal Cut), and Bubble Chem. I'm just hoping that 100% perfection is not required to achieve something that will work for me. I always seem to miss a day later in flowering that causes my leaves to burn ever so slightly on the tips.. lil nute burn, but nothing serious and typically caught within 24 hours. Besides something like that happening during a grow, there's nothing else that typically usually happens in terms of deficiencies or anything. I grow hydroponically in 5gal bubble buckets, and every week I like to change the bucket for a clean one with fresh water and nutes.. keeps everything clean and without major deficiencies.

Not smoking right sounds like a dry/curing problem more than a genetic issue

I think op meant it didn't have enough oomph

That's exactly what I meant.. thank you!

Well you can completely fuck up both. But if the genetic potential isn't there to begin with you can not fuck up at all and still end up with crap.
Cheers

That's what I have gathered from growing out my bag seed. It didn't matter how many times I cloned it and tried to grow "better", the end results where always the same potency wise, granted the buds got denser and trimmed better over the different trials, lol.

you can take mediocre genetics and achieve some pretty good results, but you'll never get that Fire...
you can take superior genetics and melt eyeballs....if you know how, if you don't, you'll achieve some pretty mediocre results....

That's why I'm still posting in the Newbie section.. I've been achieving some mediocre results. Granted, I've been cloning and growing the same crap bag seed over and over for years now, however once I have my first harvest that's actually "Fire".. I'll graduate myself into the general growing section of the message board.

Sorry for triple posting. Forget about AN, they have good marketing, but their nutrients aren’t magic, nor are they worth the money.
Consider these:
Mega Crop
Chem Gro
Jack’s
Or something similar.

Dang, at the time I made this post I didn't know there was a nutrient line called "advanced nutrients". I was referencing more at the elaborate, multi-part, and expensive nutrients verses the basic General Hydroponics A&B that I have been using since I started. To be honest.. I kind of feel like a little bitch when I walk into the store to purchase those, however it's what I've used from the start and it has grown some good looking, smelling, and tasty weed.. just without the potency that I wanted. Does nutrients really add anything, or much to overall potency when it comes to hydroponics?

Even still, has alot to do with the grower.

I know a guy used to get regs from periodically in the days of desperation.

Same smoke for atleast 15 years without fail.

Sprouted a few for my very first grow.

Found a high yielding, fast growing, very terpy mango guava strain with a lost lasting high.

Used to get clones from her in soil much faster than what i get now.

I dumped that strain like an idiot because i ran out of room under the lights.

Not saying it was better than the connoisseur strains i have, but i could have run it for high grade with no problem.

I've grown every bag seed that I've come across within the last couple of years, which surprisingly was not too much, however like I mentioned previously none of them had given a high that lasted longer than 15-30 minutes after consuming 0.6-1g. If I can't keep a decent feeling from smoking that much for longer than an hour.. then I don't want to keep smoking that strain because of how often I'll be medicating. It didn't matter that the weed looked, smelled, and tasted like top shelf quality.. it didn't have the "oomph" I was looking for in my medication. I've been smoking about 2-3 grams of top shelf quality a day for the last couple of years without any real kind of tolerance breaks, maybe a week when I had bronchitis, but I was still making edibles so that doesn't really count. I wish that I could have enough strains where I'd have to get rid of one because of room sake.. we all can't be so lucky.

It’s not even about the percentage of the thc so don’t get caught up in that. It’s about the entire cannabiniod profile combined with the terpene profile. What’re you trying to treat or relive?

i totally agree, while thc is the base of the raw potential, if that's all there is, you're just going to get a chest pounding, anxiety filled paranoia ride. cbn, cbd, terpenes, and a whole list of associated cannabinoids are what tone it down, and add the enjoyable aspects of the high. and the ratio of those is what makes weed good for different things, from sleeping to nausea control, to stopping seizures.

I understand that it's not about the percentage of the THC, however I feel like that's what has been lacking in grows since I started years ago. I would actually like to be able to medicate with my own supply for once, and I've put a bunch of time, and money into doing it over the years, which all of it was simply wasting the time and money. There's no reason why I should be paying to grow and still "donate" to dispensaries to achieve what I need.. and I suppose that's the reason I finally broke down and purchased a couple of clones.

I'm treating a whole slew of things all in one shot with cannabis. I have been diagnosed with OCD, ADHD, and also suffer from anger and impulse control issues. Apparently, I can get stressed out extremely easily, and when that happens I can get impulsive.. kind of like trying to stop my stress/issue. I also have rotating hips, with a crooked spine, and deteriorating bones and joints (cracks and pops with every moment. I also struggle to sleep at night without medicating with something heavy beforehand, otherwise I'm tossing and turning and just decide to wake up at 3-4am.That's only the main stuff that I'm treating, but we all have our issues and honestly I'm getting tired of typing at this point.

 

[Michael Huntherz]

I have two rooms that I could be using, both are exactly the same size, 4'x4'x6'. I have a 315w CMH, and a junk mars LED panel in one room, figure about 415-425w of light all in one room. In the other room I currently just have my 4' 2 bulb T5 running, but I also have a 400w HPS that I would run in the second room in place of the T5.



Are shwag seeds in reference to a good breeder or something? I've grown a handful of bag seed now and I've had some really tasty, nice looking, and dank smelling bud, however I've never had one where the initial effects lasted longer than 15-30 minutes. That guy must have had some amazing luck, or great stock to start from in my opinion.



I've kind of always looked at it the same time way to be honest with you. I've had a couple of plants span across one light into the next, and you are able to tell the difference in bud size between the junk LED panel and my 315w CMH. I'm planning on replacing the junk LED panel when I get a bit of extra cash. I considered throwing the HPS and CMH light into the same room, however that creates a whole new set of problems.



I've done a bit of shopping around to figure out which strains work well for me, and I did pick up 3 clones (spent $150) that I've sampled before and seen lab results on, Chemdog '91 (SkunkVA Cut), Do-Si-Dos (Norcal Cut), and Bubble Chem. I'm just hoping that 100% perfection is not required to achieve something that will work for me. I always seem to miss a day later in flowering that causes my leaves to burn ever so slightly on the tips.. lil nute burn, but nothing serious and typically caught within 24 hours. Besides something like that happening during a grow, there's nothing else that typically usually happens in terms of deficiencies or anything. I grow hydroponically in 5gal bubble buckets, and every week I like to change the bucket for a clean one with fresh water and nutes.. keeps everything clean and without major deficiencies.




That's exactly what I meant.. thank you!



That's what I have gathered from growing out my bag seed. It didn't matter how many times I cloned it and tried to grow "better", the end results where always the same potency wise, granted the buds got denser and trimmed better over the different trials, lol.



That's why I'm still posting in the Newbie section.. I've been achieving some mediocre results. Granted, I've been cloning and growing the same crap bag seed over and over for years now, however once I have my first harvest that's actually "Fire".. I'll graduate myself into the general growing section of the message board.



Dang, at the time I made this post I didn't know there was a nutrient line called "advanced nutrients". I was referencing more at the elaborate, multi-part, and expensive nutrients verses the basic General Hydroponics A&B that I have been using since I started. To be honest.. I kind of feel like a little bitch when I walk into the store to purchase those, however it's what I've used from the start and it has grown some good looking, smelling, and tasty weed.. just without the potency that I wanted. Does nutrients really add anything, or much to overall potency when it comes to hydroponics?



I've grown every bag seed that I've come across within the last couple of years, which surprisingly was not too much, however like I mentioned previously none of them had given a high that lasted longer than 15-30 minutes after consuming 0.6-1g. If I can't keep a decent feeling from smoking that much for longer than an hour.. then I don't want to keep smoking that strain because of how often I'll be medicating. It didn't matter that the weed looked, smelled, and tasted like top shelf quality.. it didn't have the "oomph" I was looking for in my medication. I've been smoking about 2-3 grams of top shelf quality a day for the last couple of years without any real kind of tolerance breaks, maybe a week when I had bronchitis, but I was still making edibles so that doesn't really count. I wish that I could have enough strains where I'd have to get rid of one because of room sake.. we all can't be so lucky.




I understand that it's not about the percentage of the THC, however I feel like that's what has been lacking in grows since I started years ago. I would actually like to be able to medicate with my own supply for once, and I've put a bunch of time, and money into doing it over the years, which all of it was simply wasting the time and money. There's no reason why I should be paying to grow and still "donate" to dispensaries to achieve what I need.. and I suppose that's the reason I finally broke down and purchased a couple of clones.

I'm treating a whole slew of things all in one shot with cannabis. I have been diagnosed with OCD, ADHD, and also suffer from anger and impulse control issues. Apparently, I can get stressed out extremely easily, and when that happens I can get impulsive.. kind of like trying to stop my stress/issue. I also have rotating hips, with a crooked spine, and deteriorating bones and joints (cracks and pops with every moment. I also struggle to sleep at night without medicating with something heavy beforehand, otherwise I'm tossing and turning and just decide to wake up at 3-4am.That's only the main stuff that I'm treating, but we all have our issues and honestly I'm getting tired of typing at this point.

Nah, your nutes are fine, I misunderstood. I was drunk when I wrote that...like half a bottle of whiskey plus a beer in under two hours drunk. The stuff I recommended is all good, but I have no dog in that fight. I use a combination of stuff nobody else uses and I do fine with it.

 

[blowincherrypie]

shwag = usually mexican brick weed.. middle school marijuana. When I get a second I'll try to find the thread but they literally started with sum of the worst "bag seeds" you could imagine.

I've only had a cpl grows that didnt produce heat. 1 being barneys farm pineapple whatever.. and the others being 3/4 of the autos i grew out once.

 

[blowincherrypie]

Sorry for triple posting. Forget about AN, they have good marketing, but their nutrients aren’t magic, nor are they worth the money.
Consider these:
Mega Crop
Chem Gro
Jack’s
Or something similar.

But what if he wants to be a "master grower". Shouldnt he get like 20 bottles of AN?

 

[tstick]

Genetics, Genetics, Genetics!!!

 

[NinjaMaster]

So important.
I grew bagseed and it was average.
Next up i grew some stuff from seed banks and i got what they advertised. it was way better.

 

[blowincherrypie]

So important.
I grew bagseed and it was average.
Next up i grew some stuff from seed banks and i got what they advertised. it was way better.

yes but sum bagseed have awesome genetics (Chemdog comes to mind) and some stuff u get from seed banks will turn out like crap.. If you give a crappy grower (or bad environment) awesome genetics they can still grow crap. Buying the most expensive beans/nutrients/lights will not guarantee that the end result is awesome. My favorite breeder has been Bohdi, but that doesn't mean I haven't gotten a runt or two.

lets say you got a clone from somebody who grew the best weed u ever had but your grow area is 20 degrees hotter than theres and you overwater/feed you can wind up with a bunch of larfey bullshit. Or you can find the next Chemdog from a bean you find in a bud.

 

[Viceman666]

Take human for example..

2 good looking person have the best chances to make a good looking baby.. but its not always the case..

Like 2 ugly persons have the best chances to make a ugly looking baby.. but will happen from time to time that its the opposite..
(Compare to good seeds vs bad seeds)

And then consider depending how one baby is raised vs another one, the behavior will be different..
(growing environment)

Genetic is genetic - it is what it is

To sum up, with bad genetics you can get a good product not great but good.. with good genetics you can have an allstar plant but you can fuck it up and have it produce nothing if the environment is not right..

Time to roll another one


Edit : you could achieve much better results with more lights in your grow room.. and LED have been known to produce more thc than hps so id look into that if I was you as well.. there is much cheaper option compared to few years ago if you can diy a bit strips is probably the go to at the moment with cob not far behind..i would aim for close to 1000w hps for a 4x4 room or 600w of very efficient LED or 1000w of blurple LED(actual wall watt)