Lost in translation... Help please...watts vs lumens vs kelvins?

Og from wb

New Member
Alright...I am more confused then before I started reading on the subject. Seems everybody has a different answer.
I have a 4x4x7 tent I only have 2 plants centered under the light in 3 gallon containers using a 40/40/20 grow medium. I am using root organics nutrients. I am trying to figure out if I have sufficient lighting but am at a loss . Some people say I need at least 600 Watts of actual power usage, some say to pay attention to lumens and others say kelvins is what I should be concerned with....please help. I am lost trying to sort through fact vs bs
 

booms111

Well-Known Member
Alright...I am more confused then before I started reading on the subject. Seems everybody has a different answer.
I have a 4x4x7 tent I only have 2 plants centered under the light in 3 gallon containers using a 40/40/20 grow medium. I am using root organics nutrients. I am trying to figure out if I have sufficient lighting but am at a loss . Some people say I need at least 600 Watts of actual power usage, some say to pay attention to lumens and others say kelvins is what I should be concerned with....please help. I am lost trying to sort through fact vs bs
What light are you using now? Do you plan on vegging and blooming under same light?
 

Og from wb

New Member
What light are you using now? Do you plan on vegging and blooming under same light?
I am using a kings plus 1000 watt led light...so called full spectrum.... 185 watt actual power consumption at the plug.. I had planned on using same light for flower as well.. But, upon further investigation I am considering purchasing a t5 h o 3000 kelvin 2 ft 4 light setup to add to lighting setup when I start to flower.. Do you think that setup will give me a good yield and sufficient lighting for my grow?
 

booms111

Well-Known Member
I am using a kings plus 1000 watt led light...so called full spectrum.... 185 watt actual power consumption at the plug.. I had planned on using same light for flower as well.. But, upon further investigation I am considering purchasing a t5 h o 3000 kelvin 2 ft 4 light setup to add to lighting setup when I start to flower.. Do you think that setup will give me a good yield and sufficient lighting for my grow?
Short answer is no.

16sqft you need more light then that blurple and t5 extra won't cut it in my opinion. I'd recommend checking out horticulture lighting group quantum boards or switching to hps for flower and using your light for veg only. Personally I'd hang a 1k hps in there or two 600 hps's possibly for flower for maximum yields and If you want to stick with LED I'd run four 288 quantum boards on a 480 driver, like a hlg 550 light but DIY built.
 

goblets

Member
First of all Kelvin is color not brightness. Lumens and watts are related to brightness not color.

In theory lumens are what you want to look at. Trouble is lite makers lie about lumens. So the advertised lumens are useless.

A lot of LED lights advertize equivalent watts. So an led which uses 300w will be advertised as a 1000w light. The are typically a lot less bright than a 1000w hps.

To keep it simple use HPS lights and go with watts
 

Viceman666

Well-Known Member
First of all Kelvin is color not brightness. Lumens and watts are related to brightness not color.

In theory lumens are what you want to look at. Trouble is lite makers lie about lumens. So the advertised lumens are useless.

A lot of LED lights advertize equivalent watts. So an led which uses 300w will be advertised as a 1000w light. The are typically a lot less bright than a 1000w hps.

To keep it simple use HPS lights and go with watts
Did you get lost in the forum and end up in the LED section by accident to recommend going with HPS ?:eyesmoke:

Watt are in no way relating to brightness but to power; watt = Volt x Amp simple as that



For blurple light you want to look at the actual power draw.. so in your case with a 185watts actual draw from the wall youre looking at a 185w hps equivalent at most and probably about 100w of efficient LED.. youll need much more than that if you want a decent yield and not just fluffy buds.. you want minimum a 600w hps but 1000w hps is better so given that youd need about 6-8 of your "1000w" blurple to maximize your space.. id look into quantum boards, cobs or strips if you want to diy.. much more efficient LED and will require about 500-650w of those in a 4x4 imo.. everyone may have different opinion on the subject but it will depends on your budget, goals, set up, etc..
 

Aolelon

Well-Known Member
Did you get lost in the forum and end up in the LED section by accident to recommend going with HPS ?:eyesmoke:

Watt are in no way relating to brightness but to power; watt = Volt x Amp simple as that



For blurple light you want to look at the actual power draw.. so in your case with a 185watts actual draw from the wall youre looking at a 185w hps equivalent at most and probably about 100w of efficient LED.. youll need much more than that if you want a decent yield and not just fluffy buds.. you want minimum a 600w hps but 1000w hps is better so given that youd need about 6-8 of your "1000w" blurple to maximize your space.. id look into quantum boards, cobs or strips if you want to diy.. much more efficient LED and will require about 500-650w of those in a 4x4 imo.. everyone may have different opinion on the subject but it will depends on your budget, goals, set up, etc..
In a way watts is related to brightness, in the sense that less watts is going to make a light less bright, more watts= more bright, also you're current(amps) is going to effect the efficacy of your light, in turn making it brighter or not.
 

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Alright...I am more confused then before I started reading on the subject. Seems everybody has a different answer.
I have a 4x4x7 tent I only have 2 plants centered under the light in 3 gallon containers using a 40/40/20 grow medium. I am using root organics nutrients. I am trying to figure out if I have sufficient lighting but am at a loss . Some people say I need at least 600 Watts of actual power usage, some say to pay attention to lumens and others say kelvins is what I should be concerned with....please help. I am lost trying to sort through fact vs bs
Are you looking for a siutable light for your space or only for information?
Kelvin revers to light color
lm are for total light output
lm/w is for effiency
and watts for power draw/energy consumption

A grow light should have a warmwhite spectrum around ~3000-4000°k, which is a good all-in-one spectrum for veg and flower. It should be as efficient as possible and should use only quality diodes(no chinese blurples like Vipar/Mars/...).
550-650w LED would be siutable for a 4x 4' area.

My first tip would be Quantumboards from HLG, especially the latest generation V2, which will be available in a few weeks.
4 boards and one HLG-480 would deliver up to 550w and 4 + one HLG-600 would deliver about 650w.
4 boards are ~$300 and a HLG-600 another $180 or so.
Mount it all on a large aluminum plate (like the HLG-550 from HorticultureLightningGroup, ) and you have a light with excellent values in all ranges for just under $700. Brightest Samsung diodes(up-to 220lm/w) means best effiency and +1,5g/w should be the rule. I've seen poeple doing 1,7g/w with QBV1 and V2 is 8-11% better.
And if you still have doubts ...
The V2 boards are produced directly from Samsung only with their best top LM301b's. To me that means something.
 

Aolelon

Well-Known Member
Are you looking for a siutable light for your space or only for information?
Kelvin revers to light color
lm are for total light output
lm/w is for effiency
and watts for power draw/energy consumption

A grow light should have a warmwhite spectrum around ~3000-4000°k, which is a good all-in-one spectrum for veg and flower. It should be as efficient as possible and should use only quality diodes(no chinese blurples like Vipar/Mars/...).
550-650w LED would be siutable for a 4x 4' area.

My first tip would be Quantumboards from HLG, especially the latest generation V2, which will be available in a few weeks.
4 boards and one HLG-480 would deliver up to 550w and 4 + one HLG-600 would deliver about 650w.
4 boards are ~$300 and a HLG-600 another $180 or so.
Mount it all on a large aluminum plate (like the HLG-550 from HorticultureLightningGroup, ) and you have a light with excellent values in all ranges for just under $700. Brightest Samsung diodes(up-to 220lm/w) means best effiency and +1,5g/w should be the rule. I've seen poeple doing 1,7g/w with QBV1 and V2 is 8-11% better.
And if you still have doubts ...
The V2 boards are produced directly from Samsung only with their best top LM301b's. To me that means something.
The v2 boards are available for purchase and shipping now.
 

cogitech

Well-Known Member
More confused yet, Og ?

Kelvin = colour "temperature", but this has nothing to do with power or heat and has little/nothing to do with your blurple. It is more relevant to lighting sources that produce "white" light. The higher the kelvin, the "cooler" the white light and the lower the kelvin, the "warmer" the white light. "Cooler" white lights have more blue spectrum and "warmer" white lights have more "red" spectrum. "Cooler" are known to be better for veg and "warmer" are known to be better for flowering. With a blurple, this is essentially irrelevant because they typically produce lots of red and blue and very little else (hence, "blurple"). Some blurples have separate "veg" and "flower/bloom" switches which turn on separate sets of LEDs to change the colour from more blue to more red. In most (all?) cases these are useless and both switches need to be on all the time to get maximum growth in both veg and bloom.

Regarding lumens and watts: Watts are units of power being sucked from your wall, and lumens is one way to measure actual light energy being produced by the light. MANY people around here say "watts are watts" regardless of the light type. This is misleading, because different types of lights vary considerably in their efficiency. Efficiency is a measure of how much power (watts) are actually being converted to light energy (as opposed to heat). This is often measured in lumens per watt (lm/w). A standard incandescent 200w bulb produces FAR more heat and FAR less light than any of the LEDs discussed here. So the "watts are watts" argument is ridiculous.

Those that are saying you need at least 600 watts must be assuming you want to fill that whole 4x4 area with plants. You said you only have two plants in there. Plenty of folks have grown some decent bud off of 2 plants under a 200w (real watts) blurple. Can you grow better bud off of 2 plants under a 200w COB setup? The consensus is "hell yes!" Why? Because, watt for watt, COB puts out more lumens (and a better spectrum) than a blurple.

By the way, lumens are not a great measure of light output in the context of growing plants. A much better measure is PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) but the PAR data is not readily available for all types of lights, and manufacturers often publish false PAR data. Best to simply choose something that other people have had great results with.

My recommendation is to use that blurple for this grow and see how it goes. Keep the light as close to your plants as you can without causing burn/bleaching (start with manufacturer-recommended distances (12"-18") and work from there). Whatever you get will be smokeable and it will get you high - and you will learn a lot of other very important things along the way. If you are not happy with the results, then look into going with a DIY COB or strip LED setup. If/when you get to that point and you are having trouble deciding what kelvin (colour temp.) to choose, a good "general purpose" (veg + flower) colour temperature is 3500k-4000k (generally, but depends on specific LED brand/type).
 
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Og from wb

New Member
More confused yet, Og ?

Kelvin = colour "temperature", but this has nothing to do with power or heat and has little/nothing to do with your blurple. It is more relevant to lighting sources that produce "white" light. The higher the kelvin, the "cooler" the white light and the lower the kelvin, the "warmer" the white light. "Cooler" white lights have more blue spectrum and "warmer" white lights have more "red" spectrum. "Cooler" are known to be better for veg and "warmer" are known to be better for flowering. With a blurple, this is essentially irrelevant because they typically produce lots of red and blue and very little else (hence, "blurple"). Some blurples have separate "veg" and "flower/bloom" switches which turn on separate sets of LEDs to change the colour from more blue to more red. In most (all?) cases these are useless and both switches need to be on all the time to get maximum growth in both veg and bloom.

Regarding lumens and watts: Watts are units of power being sucked from your wall, and lumens is one way to measure actual light energy being produced by the light. MANY people around here say "watts are watts" regardless of the light type. This is misleading, because different types of lights vary considerably in their efficiency. Efficiency is a measure of how much power (watts) are actually being converted to light energy (as opposed to heat). This is often measured in lumens per watt (lm/w). A standard incandescent 200w bulb produces FAR more heat and FAR less light than any of the LEDs discussed here. So the "watts are watts" argument is ridiculous.

Those that are saying you need at least 600 watts must be assuming you want to fill that whole 4x4 area with plants. You said you only have two plants in there. Plenty of folks have grown some decent bud off of 2 plants under a 200w (real watts) blurple. Can you grow better bud off of 2 plants under a 200w COB setup? The consensus is "hell yes!" Why? Because, watt for watt, COB puts out more lumens (and a better spectrum) than a blurple.

By the way, lumens are not a great measure of light output in the context of growing plants. A much better measure is PAR (photosynthetically active radiation) but the PAR data is not readily available for all types of lights, and manufacturers often publish false PAR data. Best to simply choose something that other people have had great results with.

My recommendation is to use that blurple for this grow and see how it goes. Keep the light as close to your plants as you can without causing burn/bleaching (start with manufacturer-recommended distances (12"-18") and work from there). Whatever you get will be smokeable and it will get you high - and you will learn a lot of other very important things along the way. If you are not happy with the results, then look into going with a DIY COB or strip LED setup. If/when you get to that point and you are having trouble deciding what kelvin (colour temp.) to choose, a good "general purpose" (veg + flower) colour temperature is 3500k-4000k (generally, but depends on specific LED brand/type).
Thank you all for the tons of helpful information. I guess my post was kind of misleading. I understood what watts kelvins and lumens were.
What I didn't understand was that by some people I was being told omg you are not consuming enough watts..ie 185 watts is not enough to grow good bud. Which, made no sense to me . Pretty much I was told you have to use hps to get your desired effect.Then I am being told quantum boards and light strips etc....I also did some research and read about 3000-3500 kelvin t5 ho lights being good for flower stage.. So, you can possibly see where all of the confusion came in. It seems that everyone has their idea of the quote "right" way to do it.. What I have learned from this is, do some trial and error of my own and repeat what works best for my individual grow. Thank you all for the great information.
 

Viceman666

Well-Known Member
Thank you all for the tons of helpful information. I guess my post was kind of misleading. I understood what watts kelvins and lumens were.
What I didn't understand was that by some people I was being told omg you are not consuming enough watts..ie 185 watts is not enough to grow good bud. Which, made no sense to me . Pretty much I was told you have to use hps to get your desired effect.Then I am being told quantum boards and light strips etc....I also did some research and read about 3000-3500 kelvin t5 ho lights being good for flower stage.. So, you can possibly see where all of the confusion came in. It seems that everyone has their idea of the quote "right" way to do it.. What I have learned from this is, do some trial and error of my own and repeat what works best for my individual grow. Thank you all for the great information.
At the end of the day it all depends what you wanna do with your space.. you have a 4x4 tent.. if you want to grow 2 plant that veg 1 month.. well it would have made more sense to use a 2x4 for example so people always try to provide information on what would be "optimal" for the space based on the provided information hence the 1000w hps or 600w quantum boards or cob.. the number of plant in your tent doesnt matter if you let them veg long enough your 2 plant could cover the full 4x4..but if you use only 200w with plants all over your 4x4 I can bet you that half the buds will be fluffy and filled with air overall just not that great.. thats the reality.. can you grow with 100watt in a 8x8 ? Yes no doubt about it but in all honesty whats the point?

It all comes down to your personal preference and any light will grow just some have proven to reach better result than others..

Happy growing
 

NanoGadget

Well-Known Member
I'll make it easy. High quality LED (with lm301 or better diodes for example) = about 35 watts per square foot. Older/cheaper LED and HPS = about 50 watts per square foot. follow these basic guidelines and you give yourself a good chance for success. Whatever you decide, 185 watts of LED is not enough for your space.
 
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