My plants are wilting at night..

[Tim1987]

Bro science alert! Total theory based on fact, and my own observation.

I've found in my case, it's been too much light. Not the intensity. But the amount of photons that hit the plant, over the course of the day.
For myself, I find 30min to 1HR before lights out, they droop. Which is perfect for me.
If my plants have started reaching their maximum a few hours before lights out, and start to droop. I just dim my lights a little, and the issue is back to normal.
It's the same reason they're perky just before lights on. They've used up the stored energy, and are eager for more photosynthesis.
But again the opposite happens, when reserves are full. They droop, to photosynthesize less.
Just like, if we put a little seedling under a 1000watt light. Light saturation, drooping, dead. Just happens so much faster, in this scenario.

 

[cosmonautking]

hilarious timeline we have going here hahahah. but i also have been noticing this. but i didnt notice it on the first generations of these plants.
im with blitz though. but iv been seeing it with regular photo periods.iv honestly noticed mine are starting at a maturation point. i have 3 different strains in veg, and it all happened around week 4 when they started to get close to flower size. but i had also added carbon to my nute line and they are loving it. (i think hahah)..... i kind of think that when they go through "puberty" so to speak, if you have your environment just right, they are happy enough to show "emotion like" traits..... i know im not over/under watered. and i nute properly (imho) and environment is stable and in range. 72-75f and 60-70% humidity at separate 3 places in the room....

 

[cosmonautking]

i had totally missed tims post.... very interesting.
is this good or stressful?
would this be something that symbolizes the need for co2 or would you need added heat for that? would it be a better idea to adjust the light schedule? for example. since i run 18/6 and see this 2 hours before lights out. would it be less stressful on my plants and pocket to change to a 16/8 or do you think the plants will use the compiled photons by morning time?

 

[Tim1987]

i had totally missed tims post.... very interesting.
is this good or stressful?
would this be something that symbolizes the need for co2 or would you need added heat for that? would it be a better idea to adjust the light schedule? for example. since i run 18/6 and see this 2 hours before lights out. would it be less stressful on my plants and pocket to change to a 16/8 or do you think the plants will use the compiled photons by morning time?

"Light saturation" I believe.

It's only been an observation.
Backing the light off has nearly always helped.

 

[ANC]

What are your night time temps? If you can keep that around the 27 28C point you will have more growth and activity at night.
IT is not so much because of the plants themselves but because it is the temperature required for many of the enzymes to function.

 

[cosmonautking]

dun dun dun..... im throwing a bone in here. just because i find it odd. im curious about the enzyme thing but i dont think thats exactly relevant but could totaly be useful. but i find night time growing much more spontaneous. and harder to control. as it doesnt have a forced "ceiling" and if the issue is only sort of happening at one exact stage in the plants life, its hard to understand it as an enzymatic function. because if you look at it as a controlled environment the hypothesis fails 2 out of 3 times. and wouldnt the substrate temperatures have to hit 80f? but i find it interesting that it happens much less around my 2700k clu058 1825 @ 1.4a and happens much more around the 3000 and 4000k clu048 1212s @ .7a ( i dont have a umol meter for photons) its just odd that it happens less with the 1825 that is much more powerful, but emitting a less usable light. than a more usable spectrum on a less powerful light.
and i doubt ill back em off to be honest. i like cobs because they are cool enough to train with... ill set them about 8 inches off, and it makes a cap, till everything else can catch up. then ill pull them to 12 inches and it will give me nice 1 inch node spaces.

 

[cosmonautking]

but a good question is could you use photon over saturation in tandem with increased enzymes and longer night periods. at specific stages.
through your guys experience, do you get shock if you change the light schedule? i dont get much.
so in theory if you can keep shock between 1-2 days would it be beneficial to do more like 4 different periods. like a 14/8 and enzymes for stretch and stock. then pull back to 18/6 at your desired height and just maintain your enzymes, for the rest to catch up and close up nodes. and you can just trim to what ever spacing you want. then pull back to 14/8 for a final preflower strectch, stretch. to get things were they need to be when they blow up. also kind of like spring/summer/fall hours but shortened.

 

[Tim1987]

dun dun dun..... im throwing a bone in here. just because i find it odd. im curious about the enzyme thing but i dont think thats exactly relevant but could totaly be useful. but i find night time growing much more spontaneous. and harder to control. as it doesnt have a forced "ceiling" and if the issue is only sort of happening at one exact stage in the plants life, its hard to understand it as an enzymatic function. because if you look at it as a controlled environment the hypothesis fails 2 out of 3 times. and wouldnt the substrate temperatures have to hit 80f? but i find it interesting that it happens much less around my 2700k clu058 1825 @ 1.4a and happens much more around the 3000 and 4000k clu048 1212s @ .7a ( i dont have a umol meter for photons) its just odd that it happens less with the 1825 that is much more powerful, but emitting a less usable light. than a more usable spectrum on a less powerful light.
and i doubt ill back em off to be honest. i like cobs because they are cool enough to train with... ill set them about 8 inches off, and it makes a cap, till everything else can catch up. then ill pull them to 12 inches and it will give me nice 1 inch node spaces.

My opinion......

I think its a spectrum thing.
I havnt really had it using a hps bulb.

But i did using an led.
Got better if i flicked veg switch to off.

We dont get a sunset, or sunrise indoors. Its just on. Then off.

Its the intensity of a hot mid summer, midday sun. All day long.
Stresses the plants right out.

This is my own hypothesis, ive come to anyway.

 

[Tim1987]

but a good question is could you use photon over saturation in tandem with increased enzymes and longer night periods. at specific stages.
through your guys experience, do you get shock if you change the light schedule? i dont get much.
so in theory if you can keep shock between 1-2 days would it be beneficial to do more like 4 different periods. like a 14/8 and enzymes for stretch and stock. then pull back to 18/6 at your desired height and just maintain your enzymes, for the rest to catch up and close up nodes. and you can just trim to what ever spacing you want. then pull back to 14/8 for a final preflower strectch, stretch. to get things were they need to be when they blow up. also kind of like spring/summer/fall hours but shortened.

I think saturation, is just as the word implies.

Couldnt fit anymore if we tried, and its making a mess everywhere.

Like a saturated kitchen sponge.

Probably not a good analogy.
But i think its what the term implies.

There's too much light. Saturated with light even.

I've been meaning to read up on "ppfd", or whatever it is, and means. Because i think its directly related.
All the led growers harp on about it.

But iv'e always figured its the equivalent of putting young sensitive plants, in the hottest, brightest summer sun. Only without all the heat.

Again though. Only my observation. I've been meaning to do some reading lately.

Thanks for revIving the thread. Haha.

Its an interesting topic. That im not sure i have the answers to.

 

[JohnDee]

Hey guys,
I like this thread resurrection thing. Only problem is we may have to wait another 4 years for an answer...

I vote for Tim's light saturation theory...seems to fit with my experiences.
JD

 

[Stealfy]

It's 2020 and I registered just to post.

My plants all do this, less so if the lights aren't super bright.