Switching to LED from HPS

Flowki

Well-Known Member
Honest help, tried being clear to help him understand what he's doing wont help his goal.

And he clearly IS ON A BUDGET he said that several times. Hps can grow really well. He should be able to get dang near a lb with it. And if he learned how to use it properly he wouldn't have any issues cooling it with a couple fans instead of an AC.

I asked him 2 times what he is paying per kilowatt hour and he wont answer, so likely doesn't know. And that goes right along with what I also said above. If you don't know what your paying per kwh you don't know how much if any measurable amount by cutting out 10% watts. And how long it will take to make a difference if you 400$ on a new fixture.
He isn't going to run two tents and do well. Single grow/tent cmh with steady climate is the best all round option for him atm. People can afford to be fussy these days.. badly grown hps won't cut it, nor will perpetual weed grown under insufficient lighting and climate.
 

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
He isn't going to run two tents and do well. Single grow/tent cmh with steady climate is the best all round option for him atm. People can afford to be fussy these days.. badly grown hps won't cut it, nor will perpetual weed grown under insufficient lighting and climate.
You must be one of those people who never learned how to use a HPS correctly...

I'm running a 1000watt HPS (at night) daytime temps are in the mid 90's every day this week, and my canopy temps are in the low 70's. Temps taken with a infrared thermometer. No AC. It's not rocket science... it just takes a willingness to listen to people who have been doing it, and ignoring the clamor from noobies.
 

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Learning how to use your equipment is key. My electric bill is lower than many people who DONT grow, simply because so few people even understand how electric is billed.
 

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
What does this mean?
It means a lot of people dont understand what it costs to run differant appilances or things like tvs and speakers. I know how many watts everything in my house costs to use and i use fans not air conditioners. Lights instead of heaters. I see people with 2 air conditioners in their house and automatically know their bill is higher than mine. My bill is under 100$ a month. Average for the area is 150-200. Up to 400 in winter is very common here. People just dont manage the temps and draws of the things they have ive found
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Peeps can say whatever, all advice on heat and light is lame on this site. Until then the only answer is cool the room you have your tent in, if electric is like 2bucks a kilowatt hour then obviously ye be Fuct :-)
 

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Peeps can say whatever, all advice on heat and light is lame on this site. Until then the only answer is cool the room you have your tent in, if electric is like 2bucks a kilowatt hour then obviously ye be Fuct :-)
This is pretty true, and a relativly recent change. The majority of accounts are less than 2 years old and in that time the led crowd has taken control of info shared purely by sheer numbers of posts.

Used to be common to have advice be to use large 12 inch and even 14 inch fans with big carbon filters, cant remember the last time i read someone recommend a inline bigger than 8 inchs and its generally 6 now! Thats why nobody can cool their rooms anymore. We have a bunch of people who are "booksmart" with no actual experiance contradicting people with years of experiance doing it every month of every year.
Ive been doing this over 8 years and i still get people every day here saying im full of shit or what cant be done or impossible to keep cool.. people who cant should listen to those who can.. but thats just not how it is.
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Most of us can grow but collectively we havent quite cracked it, i can only hint at that a part of our info here is wrong.

Our inlines got dialled down as all but the lightest winds force transpiration and this is alternate to the transpiration we want. One question was 'was wind natural or not to weed plants', turns out its not. One formulates a conclusion that extraction need only be for heat removal and at that level the plant has more than enough Co2.
:-)

This is pretty true, and a relativly recent change. The majority of accounts are less than 2 years old and in that time the led crowd has taken control of info shared purely by sheer numbers of posts.

Used to be common to have advice be to use large 12 inch and even 14 inch fans with big carbon filters, cant remember the last time i read someone recommend a inline bigger than 8 inchs and its generally 6 now! Thats why nobody can cool their rooms anymore. We have a bunch of people who are "booksmart" with no actual experiance contradicting people with years of experiance doing it every month of every year.
Ive been doing this over 8 years and i still get people every day here saying im full of shit or what cant be done or impossible to keep cool.. people who cant should listen to those who can.. but thats just not how it is.
 

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
Most of us can grow but collectively we havent quite cracked it, i can only hint at that a part of our info here is wrong.

Our inlines got dialled down as all but the lightest winds force transpiration and this is alternate to the transpiration we want. One question was 'was wind natural or not to weed plants', turns out its not. One formulates a conclusion that extraction need only be for heat removal and at that level the plant has more than enough Co2.
:-)
..Not trying to be a dick. Can you explain to me why you think wind is unnatural to cannabis?
 

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Most of us can grow but collectively we havent quite cracked it, i can only hint at that a part of our info here is wrong.

Our inlines got dialled down as all but the lightest winds force transpiration and this is alternate to the transpiration we want. One question was 'was wind natural or not to weed plants', turns out its not. One formulates a conclusion that extraction need only be for heat removal and at that level the plant has more than enough Co2.
:-)
I definitely disagree. A leaf rustling breeze is very helpful in many ways. Wind may not be the right word, but still air is very bad for them even if temps are not a concern. Bud density, oils, an stems all take hits of there is not enough air movement. All that leads to less yield of a lesser result.
 

Olive Drab Green

Well-Known Member
I definitely disagree. A leaf rustling breeze is very helpful in many ways. Wind may not be the right word, but still air is very bad for them even if temps are not a concern. Bud density, oils, an stems all take hits of there is not enough air movement. All that leads to less yield of a lesser result.
Wind is also necessary to prevent bud rot in some natural environments.

Wind occurs in nature. Wind occurs in space and on other planets. Plants also occur in nature. Wind has to be natural to a plant; they both occur often in nature.
 

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Wind is also necessary to prevent bud rot in some natural environments.

Wind occurs in nature. Wind occurs in space and on other planets. Plants also occur in nature. Wind has to be natural to a plant; they both occur often in nature.
Right, I know I've grown plenty of 3-5 lb outdoor plants in pretty windy conditions. Windy enough to shred tarps. There's a point when too much wind does hurt you and starts stunting buds and breaking branches, but your not really going to hit that simply with large exhaust fans... ever visit a nursery where they have fans built into the walls that are over 5 ft wide making true wind?
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Again, I’m not shitting on you, Kingrow. I know we have some bad history from when I first got here, and I’m sorry for that, but I’m just curious about your observations.
Then the answer must lie in what happens if grown in a stagnant air environment, does a leaf die or does it cling to my alternate conclusion?
 

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Then the answer must lie in what happens if grown in a stagnant air environment, does a leaf die or does it cling to my alternate conclusion?
Having grown with and without fans, every single time the plants have been better with moderate airflow. I've gone so far as growing in completely still air conditions in cabinets 2x4 ft. They grow fine, but not as good as with moderate air movement.
 

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Our inlines got dialled down as all but the lightest winds force transpiration and this is alternate to the transpiration we want. One question was 'was wind natural or not to weed plants', turns out its not. One formulates a conclusion that extraction need only be for heat removal and at that level the plant has more than enough Co2.
:-)

I really want to understand what your logic is because this is contrary to the science as far as I've ever heard it. The wind helps in so many ways. And the added transpiration being a good thing as it helps pull nutrients into the plant.

I've only experienced negatives when it's extremely windy, branches breaking or swinging around. A when all the leaves are dancing around gently it's perfect.
 

Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
Having grown with and without fans, every single time the plants have been better with moderate airflow. I've gone so far as growing in completely still air conditions in cabinets 2x4 ft. They grow fine, but not as good as with moderate air movement.
I give clear limits which come from cited work on the subject of 0.3 - 0.5m/s.

It is at the boundary where free convection becomes forced convection in terms of leaf cooling.

I just know this and other subjects at higher levels than the info on these sites, you might find a few others who say this and many scientific papers that also suggest the same after studies in these environments.

Weed stomata are linked to the environment, those that arent handle wind better like some broadleaved plants. Pinnate leaves are of a different class to some extent and most designed to create their own thermsal currents which again facilitates boundary layer transfer etc etc etc.

The info here is weak on a lot of subjects, the fact that you can grow in reasonably calm air means someone isnt telling the whole story....
 

Flowki

Well-Known Member
You must be one of those people who never learned how to use a HPS correctly...

I'm running a 1000watt HPS (at night) daytime temps are in the mid 90's every day this week, and my canopy temps are in the low 70's. Temps taken with a infrared thermometer. No AC. It's not rocket science... it just takes a willingness to listen to people who have been doing it, and ignoring the clamor from noobies.
I don't give a monkeys if you are growing with 400W or 4000W hps, Inefficiency is inefficiency. Unless you are growing hps vert cage the tech is unjustifiable for home growers other than budget growing or a stepping stone. The rest are people like you who don't want to move on and that's fine.. but don't try to make hps out to be the front runner when it isn't. Other than vert the best you can do is a stadium effect but 1/5th of the lightW, maybe more is still wasted. If outside temps are already a challenge you are not only wasting 1/5 light W you are also wasting added A/C or fanW to take care of that wasted light W. Cmh still suffers to some of the above inefficiency but the spectrum and quality increase off sets it far more and is one of the reasons hps is unjustifiable other than above exceptions. But that's cmh vert aside.

OP you could drop to 400hps but that also isn't efficient long term. If you want to try doing 400W vert you'll reduce light and cooling W yet increase efficiency/canopy coverage and yield. If stuck on horizontal/stadium style due to limitation or lack of vert growing desire then look into a 315 or around 400W of cob. Cob will direct far more of the light to the canopy and more uniformed meaning you are getting the most out of every light W generated.

If you can only afford hps right now then sure, step stone it. Buy a 400 and cheap wings, bend the wings up into a loose V angle and shape the canopy into a stadium. It's about the most efficient you will get for cost/effort if budget is that bad.
 
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Kingrow1

Well-Known Member
I don't give a monkeys if you are growing with 400W or 4000W hps, Inefficiency is inefficiency. Unless you are growing hps vert cage the tech is unjustifiable for home growers other than budget growing or a stepping stone. The rest are people like you who don't want to move on and that's fine.. but don't try to make hps out to be the front runner when it isn't. Other than vert the best you can do is a stadium effect but 1/5th of the lightW, maybe more is still wasted. If outside temps are already a challenge you are not only wasting 1/5 light W you are also wasting added A/C or fanW to take care of that wasted light W. Cmh still suffers to some of the above inefficiency but the spectrum and quality increase off sets it far more and is one of the reasons hps is unjustifiable other than above exceptions. But that's cmh vert aside.

OP you could drop to 400hps but that also isn't efficient long term. If you want to try doing 400W vert you'll reduce light and cooling W yet increase efficiency/canopy coverage and yield. If stuck on horizontal/stadium style due to limitation or lack of vert growing desire then look into a 315 or around 400W of cob. Cob will direct far more of the light to the canopy and more uniformed meaning you are getting the most out of every light W generated.

If you can only afford hps right now then sure, step stone it. Buy a 400 and cheap wings, bend the wings up into a loose V angle and shape the canopy into a stadium. It's about the most efficient you will get for cost/effort if budget is that bad.
Id believe more if this site was clear on its science, until then i can point out inaccuracies and hope that one day this is cleared up.

I cant see a clear runner for all the chaff unfortunately, hps still yeilds at the forefront so ergo it is still a contender.
 

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
I don't give a monkeys if you are growing with 400W or 4000W hps, Inefficiency is inefficiency. Unless you are growing hps vert cage the tech is unjustifiable for home growers other than budget growing or a stepping stone. The rest are people like you who don't want to move on and that's fine.. but don't try to make hps out to be the front runner when it isn't. Other than vert the best you can do is a stadium effect but 1/5th of the lightW, maybe more is still wasted. If outside temps are already a challenge you are not only wasting 1/5 light W you are also wasting added A/C or fanW to take care of that wasted light W. Cmh still suffers to some of the above inefficiency but the spectrum and quality increase off sets it far more and is one of the reasons hps is unjustifiable other than above exceptions. But that's cmh vert aside.

OP you could drop to 400hps but that also isn't efficient long term. If you want to try doing 400W vert you'll reduce light and cooling W yet increase efficiency/canopy coverage and yield. If stuck on horizontal/stadium style due to limitation or lack of vert growing desire then look into a 315 or around 400W of cob. Cob will direct far more of the light to the canopy and more uniformed meaning you are getting the most out of every light W generated.

If you can only afford hps right now then sure, step stone it. Buy a 400 and cheap wings, bend the wings up into a loose V angle and shape the canopy into a stadium. It's about the most efficient you will get for cost/effort if budget is that bad.
Just as I thought, you never learned how to use hps.. I could point out where and why your wildly off the mark, but i don't think you'll even understand..
 
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