America Is a Failed State

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
growingforfun said:
It's a lot more complicated than that.

I think we should do everything we can to slow down illegal immigration and the practice of smuggling people as if they are products and not human beings.
The worst part is the people who have to make a long hard journey and end up raped or worse along the way.

If that means a wall, fine. It's not a perfect solution but its effort.

We need to work on easier paths to citizenship and jobs, legal jobs not this under the table crap that takes advantage of people. Not the fake ssn crap where they pay tax but get no benefits.

They only good reason to separate children from legal asylum seekers at the boarder is for DNA testing to be sure the people are the parents and it's not child trafficking. This could be done in hours not days, the whole process needs overhauled from top to bottom.
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I'm not talking about a hypothetical idea. Children were separated from parents legally seeking asylum at the border. The policy was instituted to deter people from applying for asylum. Do you say that is justified because Trump says he's going to streamline legal immigration?
 
Herb & Suds

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
growingforfun said:
It's a lot more complicated than that.

I think we should do everything we can to slow down illegal immigration and the practice of smuggling people as if they are products and not human beings.
The worst part is the people who have to make a long hard journey and end up raped or worse along the way.

If that means a wall, fine. It's not a perfect solution but its effort.

We need to work on easier paths to citizenship and jobs, legal jobs not this under the table crap that takes advantage of people. Not the fake ssn crap where they pay tax but get no benefits.

They only good reason to separate children from legal asylum seekers at the boarder is for DNA testing to be sure the people are the parents and it's not child trafficking. This could be done in hours not days, the whole process needs overhauled from top to bottom.
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A wall failed in Germany
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
"ya know who's responsible for rape? it's not rapists. it's the lack of a wall. why are you calling me a trumptard?"
 
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I'm not talking about a hypothetical idea. Children were separated from parents legally seeking asylum at the border. The policy was instituted to deter people from applying for asylum. Do you say that is justified because Trump says he's going to streamline legal immigration?
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Do you read or just rant? I've stated my position.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
growingforfun said:
Do you read or just rant? I've stated my position.
Click to expand...
Actually you didn't reply to my question.

But OK, I take it that you do think Trump's separating children from parents at the border is justified. You justification is: you are concerned about human trafficking.

Your justification is a red herring fed you by right wing propaganda. The Trump administration's stated reason for separating kids from parents at the border was to deter people from seeking asylum, not to prevent trafficking.

Does the fact that you were lied to make any difference to you?

Tell me, how bad is this human trafficking problem where kids are being whisked across the border for nefarious purposes. How many of the kids separated at the border in the illegal action that Trump initiated were in fact victims of human trafficking?
 
G

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Actually you didn't reply to my question.

But OK, I take it that you do think Trump's separating children from parents at the border is justified. You justification is: you are concerned about human trafficking.

Your justification is a red herring fed you by right wing propaganda. The Trump administration's stated reason for separating kids from parents at the border was to deter people from seeking asylum, not to prevent trafficking.

Does the fact that you were lied to make any difference to you?

Tell me, how bad is this human trafficking problem where kids are being whisked across the border for nefarious purposes. How many of the kids separated at the border in the illegal action that Trump initiated were in fact victims of human trafficking?
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I get it now. Your the racist here, these people arnt worth protecting to you. Because its "not a big deal if a few kids are being raped"

Wow.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
growingforfun said:
I get it now. Your the racist here, these people arnt worth protecting to you. Because its "not a big deal if a few kids are being raped"

Wow.
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logical fallacy: appeal to pity

Never once did I minimize the harm done to a trafficking victim. You bought the line that the separations were to stop trafficking when Trump's own people admitted the policy was to deter people from seeking asylum. I'm just asking why you aren't bothered by being lied to?

If you are so concerned about the problem of human trafficking then explain to me why you think it is such a large problem that thousands of kids were separated from their real parents to prevent the truly horrific crime of trafficking a child. If child trafficking by illegal immigrants is such an issue that you'd cause lifelong harm to even one child taken away from their mother, there must be some facts available to back up your reasoning. I'd like to hear it.

This is the politics forum we should be able to ask questions and give answers to them.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member

Experts cast doubt on DHS claim that traffickers are posing as families at the border
DHS pointed to a surge of minors who have been "used and trafficked by unrelated adults in an effort to avoid detention.” Not exactly, experts say.
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/experts-cast-doubt-dhs-claim-traffickers-are-posing-families-border-n885241

To summarize: in high-traffic area for illegal immigrants, an area in Texas where thousands have been detained, 600 potential cases of family fraud were flagged. Not a single case is related to child trafficking.

Conclusion: Trumptards are being lied to but they don't care. Build that wall!!!

An excerpt follows:

According to Department of Homeland Security spokeswoman Katie Waldman, that 315 percent spike equaled 145 more cases — up from 46 from October 2016 to September 2017, to 191 in the first five months of this fiscal year. Nielsen previously called this surge in fake families “staggering.”

Yet those 191 cases represent just half of 1 percent of the roughly 31,000 people who illegally crossed the border during those five months, department data shows.

Waldman said that most of these cases occurred in United States Customs and Border Protection agency’s Rio Grande Valley sector — a 17,000 square-mile swath of borderland that stretches from Rio Grande City in the west to Brownsville and Corpus Christi in the east.

At a Sunday news conference, the region’s sector chief, Manuel Padilla, said his agents had identified more than 600 cases of family fraud since October.

But in an interview, deputy chief Raul Ortiz said these cases did not involve human trafficking, or the illegal transportation of someone typically for sexual exploitation or forced labor. "Trafficking is very different than trying to be smuggled between points of entry," he said.

Ortiz said it was possible that criminal organizations use familial relationships as cover. For instance, a man officials said belonged to MS-13 illegally crossed with a 1-year-old boy in May, believing that authorities would release him if he was with a child. But that boy was the alleged gang member's son, Ortiz said.

Ortiz said the Rio Grande Valley fraud cases mostly involved false documents — adults trying to pass as minors — or "imposters," where someone who may be a brother, cousin or neighbor identified themselves as a parent, Ortiz said. “They know enough about the person, but not enough that we’d consider them a family unit.” (It wasn't clear if Nielsen was referring to a different Border Patrol sector. Waldman did not respond to NBC News' requests for clarification.)


Of those 600-plus cases, Ortiz said, 63 have been referred to prosecutors. Thirty-six involved adults claiming to be children. The remaining 27 were allegedly family fraud.

Ortiz could not provide other specifics about the cases, such as what charges they face besides illegal entry. But it wasn't clear that they were on the rise.

"I think we've gotten better at IDing cases" of fraud, he said.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
The ability to reason has fled Trumptards. In order to save children from their unsubstantiated fear of child trafficking across our border, they put children separated from families at higher risk of BEING trafficked. The Trump adminstration knew of this risk when they lied to idiots like @growingforfun . Fuck them. Every time I dig down to find out what Trumptards like forfun are really saying, I come away disgusted by their rampant racism, ignorance and willingness to do harm to innocent people.

Children separated from families face higher risk of being trafficked, US state department warns
'Removal of a child from the family should only be considered as a temporary, last resort'

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/child-sex-trafficking-trump-slavery-us-border-mexico-parents-separate-a8422176.html

The US State Department is warning that children removed from their families and placed in institutional care are at heightened risk of being trafficked.

The State Department’s annual Trafficking in Persons report comes as the Trump administration faces backlash over its “zero tolerance” immigration policy at the US-Mexico border, where more than 2,300 families have been forcibly separated and children have been placed in state-run detention centres.

The report ranks foreign governments in their efforts to combat slavery and sex trafficking.

According to the report, removal of a child from the family “should only be considered as a temporary, last resort”. It also explains that children held in “government-run facilities, can be easy targets for traffickers”.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
There were a lot of them right before the 2016 election too. They spread the same BS propaganda that doughboy was spreading. It's effective and cheap. Our resident Bernie babies, @schuylaar , @ttystikk and @Padawanbater2 bought into it root and branch. The only proven way to counter a comprehensive propaganda campaign is to immediately counter it with facts that prove the lie. With rollie's nudge, doughboy has moved on to another site to spread his poison. I'll bet they show up defending the BS that Democrats and Republicans are the same. Also that opposing neo-Nazis somehow makes them more numerous and other alt.right lies.
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Oh look, another gratuitous fact free smear.

You and Alex Jones are perfect for each other.
 
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