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growin-Jables

growin-Jables

Well-Known Member
Humple said:
There's a very real learning curve when moving from HID to LED. Poke around the threads here, and you'll see ample evidence that a properly dialed-in LED grow will yield every bit as well as HID, at 60-75% of the wattage. But this requires that the environment and nutritional inputs be adjusted - temp, humidity, nutes, they all have to be tweaked a bit from what someone is accustomed to using under HID.
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Well...I have yet to see a single thread of any led yielding that of a 1000w de hps. Again....if that was a realistic outcome , then there would be no reason people would continue hps and hid lighting lol. That would just be choosing to deal with heat uneccesarily. But again. 99% of commercial ops run hid for the reasons of yield potential. I can see lower watt leds competing with lower watt hids. But those 1000w de still said to be factually the best for yield in flower
 
coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
So @Flowki this thread was started in October 2017. . Which direction did you end up taking and did you cope with the fricking heat wave this summer?
 
Humple

Humple

Well-Known Member
growin-Jables said:
Well...I have yet to see a single thread of any led yielding that of a 1000w de hps. Again....if that was a realistic outcome , then there would be no reason people would continue hps and hid lighting lol. That would just be choosing to deal with heat uneccesarily. But again. 99% of commercial ops run hid for the reasons of yield potential. I can see lower watt leds competing with lower watt hids. But those 1000w de still said to be factually the best for yield in flower
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That isn't correct. Plenty of peeps 'round these parts have left DE behind, precisely because they can get the same yield with lower power. Have a look at the following threads for starters:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/from-des-to-leds.948046/

https://www.rollitup.org/t/led-grow-from-start-to-finish.965338/

It's just basic physics though, man. As kick-ass as DEs are, LED is capable of greater efficiency, and therefore generates more photons per watt.
 
growin-Jables

growin-Jables

Well-Known Member
Humple said:
That isn't correct. Plenty of peeps 'round these parts have left DE behind, precisely because they can get the same yield with lower power. Have a look at the following threads for starters:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/from-des-to-leds.948046/

https://www.rollitup.org/t/led-grow-from-start-to-finish.965338/

It's just basic physics though, man. As kick-ass as DEs are, LED is capable of greater efficiency, and therefore generates more photons per watt.
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Then I'm not sure why all I'm seeing are s small commercial grows with leds.

LOL. I respect your knowledge as a grower....but again....all your sharing links for are 8x8 grows or smaller single room grows. I'm speaking on commercial scale. Yeah. Home growers may benefit from running led. Since again leds are much more efficient in smaller spaces where a large footprint isnt neccesary. Why do you think timbers lights have a fixture spread out every foot or so. Because the realized with the chips close together and led being so focused. They have to space there chips out to get a better foot print. So again. If you have a small room to help reflect some light back into the grow then yeah LED can be very much as good hid. But when looking at any large scale grow. I dont know to many people willing to make the financial investment spending grands more for the same results. It would take years to make up that amount with electricity saved from not needing to cool the room. If it TRULY and Genuinely was the best light out there....then all other lights would become obsolete. But fixtures like CMH are still increasing in sales across hydro stores nationwide. Which means people are still looking for alternate lighting. All while these apparently no brainer leds exist. Again....what I am getting at is if it was un deniably the best light out there. In all factors. Then they would be in every professional grow across the nation....but there not......I'm still looking for threads of real commercial grows using led. And everytime someone says " all you have to do is search, heres a couple links I found. And after looking at the links it's always a single room grow lol...
 
growin-Jables

growin-Jables

Well-Known Member
Humple said:
That isn't correct. Plenty of peeps 'round these parts have left DE behind, precisely because they can get the same yield with lower power. Have a look at the following threads for starters:

https://www.rollitup.org/t/from-des-to-leds.948046/

https://www.rollitup.org/t/led-grow-from-start-to-finish.965338/

It's just basic physics though, man. As kick-ass as DEs are, LED is capable of greater efficiency, and therefore generates more photons per watt.
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The other thing you had mentioned about Led. Was the fact theres a definite learning curve. Qhere there lights need to be at a specific distance to get those efficient results. Which is saying unless you do absolutely everything perfect and have the lights at that absolute perfect distance then you wont see the results you would with hid. That's something to be said....one of the main reasons I always reccomend cmh..especially to beginners is the fact that the light allows for so much forgiveness. Light can be 18"- 36" from canopy and still see really good results. Even more so, the intense output of UVB Ray's actually keeps your plants healthier than other lights in the market. Which means making a mistake hear and there will not cause you to lose the efficiency aspect of the light. We all make mistakes. And for people like me who dont have the time to spend in the garden every day adjusting my fixture height as the plant grows, I love just setting my 630w cmh as high as it goes in my tent. And just leave it through harvest. Works great
Allows for a bit of stretch to get some branching for room for bud growth. Then as they get a bit closer to the light within about 40 inches they stop stretching all together and grow fantastically the rest of the way. As well as not having the ability to customize my spectrum without buying another light is also the issue with leds. Say one or 2 chips prematurely burn out.....cant just replace that one chip. Nope. Uou gotta buy a whole brand new fixture. Vs replacing a $50 bulb
 
Porky101

Porky101

Well-Known Member
Ryante55 said:
What were his expectations? I think sometimes people want too much from led and alot of times people don't run the lights close enough to the canopy I see too many pictures of lights 2 feet above the plants with led
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My LEDS are 4ft above my canopy:)

600umol +-
 
Porky101

Porky101

Well-Known Member
Ryante55 said:
Yeah that's just not alot unless your in a really small space. In a 4x4 I would think you need 4x that much to justify 4 feet above the canopy.
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What do you mean 4x that much to justify 4 feet above the canopy?

4x as much as what?
 
R

Ryante55

Well-Known Member
Porky101 said:
What do you mean 4x that much to justify 4 feet above the canopy?

4x as much as what?
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You said your fixture ouputs 600 umol a 1000 de hps is like 2000umoles when your talking about total fixture output you have to consider the size space your in. If your running led higher above the canopy than you would hang an hps you need more output. Maybe I just misunderstood what you said?
 
Porky101

Porky101

Well-Known Member
Ryante55 said:
You said your fixture ouputs 600 umol a 1000 de hps is like 2000umoles when your talking about total fixture output you have to consider the size space your in. If your running led higher above the canopy than you would hang an hps you need more output. Maybe I just misunderstood what you said?
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Im not sure the total number of umoles a DE hps outputs. I am saying at my canopy, I am getting 600umols.
 
INF Flux

INF Flux

Well-Known Member
Food for thought. IMO, as a user of the samsung chips in both QB and strip form, I'm not looking back
 
growin-Jables

growin-Jables

Well-Known Member
INF Flux said:
Food for thought. IMO, as a user of the samsung chips in both QB and strip form, I'm not looking back
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I think theres plenty of data that's been created to say led is the best.....but I think the only hard evidence that would prove that are endless examples of Led and hps side by side grows where led just dominates. I am always trying to find the next best lighting so I'm always staying as unbiased as possible. And when I was deciding between cmh and leds.....I saw more factual evidence in grow journals and actual pictures of there grows and results vs peoples personal claims or a friend of theres got this result. Untill I see more evidence I'm saving my $ till I find something that's a sure thing
 
Flowki

Flowki

Well-Known Member
growin-Jables said:
I think theres plenty of data that's been created to say led is the best.....but I think the only hard evidence that would prove that are endless examples of Led and hps side by side grows where led just dominates. I am always trying to find the next best lighting so I'm always staying as unbiased as possible. And when I was deciding between cmh and leds.....I saw more factual evidence in grow journals and actual pictures of there grows and results vs peoples personal claims or a friend of theres got this result. Untill I see more evidence I'm saving my $ till I find something that's a sure thing
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What is your definition of dominance?.
 
gwheels

gwheels

Well-Known Member
growin-Jables said:
The other thing you had mentioned about Led. Was the fact theres a definite learning curve. Qhere there lights need to be at a specific distance to get those efficient results. Which is saying unless you do absolutely everything perfect and have the lights at that absolute perfect distance then you wont see the results you would with hid. That's something to be said....one of the main reasons I always reccomend cmh..especially to beginners is the fact that the light allows for so much forgiveness. Light can be 18"- 36" from canopy and still see really good results. Even more so, the intense output of UVB Ray's actually keeps your plants healthier than other lights in the market. Which means making a mistake hear and there will not cause you to lose the efficiency aspect of the light. We all make mistakes. And for people like me who dont have the time to spend in the garden every day adjusting my fixture height as the plant grows, I love just setting my 630w cmh as high as it goes in my tent. And just leave it through harvest. Works great
Allows for a bit of stretch to get some branching for room for bud growth. Then as they get a bit closer to the light within about 40 inches they stop stretching all together and grow fantastically the rest of the way. As well as not having the ability to customize my spectrum without buying another light is also the issue with leds. Say one or 2 chips prematurely burn out.....cant just replace that one chip. Nope. Uou gotta buy a whole brand new fixture. Vs replacing a $50 bulb
Click to expand...
Dont forget the calmag. Wow cobs and quantums take more than anything.

Learning curve for sure.

One big advantage is thinner light fixtures to max tent height available.

I gained 8 inches of space between my 315 cmh and the 240 watt strip board.
 
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