Defoliation?

[nicksol86]

The goal of trimming indoor plants is to remove lower growth to concentrate growth to the tops, where you have colas. Depending on the light, usable light only penetrates the canopy about a foot deep. That's where you want all your buds to be growing. Its hard to remove everything below the canopy though. Some stuff is just too hard to get to, especially when growing inside.

I'm running 1000 watt hortilux HPS bulb. My plants seemed to love the defoliation and are thickening up a little finally. In my 5th week flowering now

 

[nicksol86]

I had a 400 watt hps running too but it was too hot in my room so I am only running the 1000 now, I lack good ventilation for both lights running at the same time since the 400 isn't air cooled like the 1000 is

 

[nicksol86]

You've obviously never defoliated. Cause the Shit works wonders.

It's working good for me so far. Buds are doing better than before

 

[Chiefbongwater]

I did somethig similar. Tried lollipopping late in the game,but before flowering. Well fucked it up and ended up trimming the entire plant. That and combo of extreme heat wave gave me popcorn like a mother fucker. And problems snowballed after that one. Im still pretty new but i know im not cutting shit unless they sick
If anything LST to get light lenetration and lower the canopy and lower light

 

[BenGman]

I have always been so very sketchy on defoliation on my plant's, I did a test this week on my gws and purple kush, both are past the 8 week mark and with 90% of the pistils brown. I was happy enough to defoliate all shade leave's except the top 2-3 above, with an ice water flush...first two day's I saw no difference . i went in to chop and prepared myself for harvest on the 3rd day once lights turned on and I was shocked that they swelled up more than I imagined, I wasn't sure if it would continue to swell once the pistils have died but they definitely do so, I can't wait to see how they are going today and I'll be doing it to the rest of my plant's.

Next run I'll Be trying defoliation earlier in it's cycle to see the results.

 

[Airwalker16]

I have always been so very sketchy on defoliation on my plant's, I did a test this week on my gws and purple kush, both are past the 8 week mark and with 90% of the pistils brown. I was happy enough to defoliate all shade leave's except the top 2-3 above, with an ice water flush...first two day's I saw no difference . i went in to chop and prepared myself for harvest on the 3rd day once lights turned on and I was shocked that they swelled up more than I imagined, I wasn't sure if it would continue to swell once the pistils have died but they definitely do so, I can't wait to see how they are going today and I'll be doing it to the rest of my plant's.

Next run I'll Be trying defoliation earlier in it's cycle to see the results.

Don't touch anything past day 21 in flower man.

 

[nicksol86]

I learned the hard way my first grow. I defoliated all the big fan leaves off at week 3 budding. It stunted them, never had problems with nutrient burn until I did that stupid move. I definitely learned don't take any leaves off unless your in veg and give her a week or 2 weeks to bounce back before you flower her. They don't like to be stressed in flower. I listened to idiots online and I fucked my whole first crop up. My buds wouldn't swell for shit after I did that. They need there fan leaves to do there purpose. The only time you should ever pull a leaf off in flowering is if it's yellowing and dying and easily plucks off without much force at all. Don't be a dumbass like me and regret it. I went way too hard on defoliation way too late in the game. I have read it's good in veg though. Before you flower you can remove a few fan leaves to let better light to the lower branches but always give her time to recover before forcing her to flower, don't over do it cuz they need there leaves. It's also good to lollipop lower branches in veg so the tops get more focused on in bud development since that's where most of your light intensity is at the top of your plants, not the bottom where scraggly small airy buds usually grow because there's not enough light. That's what I learned on this topic in a nutshell

 

[Prince Vegeta]

I took 2 cuttings from a plant
Put both in 3 gal containers side by side
Received same nutes on same days in same soil.
One i trimmed the bottom 4 nodes off
One i didn't.
The plant I defoliated has buds 1/3 larger than the undefoliated plant.
The non defoliated one obviously has the smaller nugs on those lower branches
But other than that the defoliated plant is smashing her sister.
Thicker buds
Larger buds
Tighter buds than the non defoliated

I'm trying to load comparison pics but my net is JANKY today


First pic is nondefoliated
Has the few buddies on the lower branches

The second is defoliated
Its naked stalk until big bud development which continues up the entirety of the main stalk.

Both plants suffering from same Nitrogen toxicity
Ps. clones were taken July 17
Vegged them just for about a week Then put into 12 12

 

[firsttimeARE]

I trim lower bud sites and fan leaves and remove fan leaves at canopy level only when they are covering buds. But I don't go crazy and remove all fan leaves. That's stupid.

A few grows ago I was lazy and let the plant grow natural and the buds were much smaller. I turned the whole crop to hash. I'd NEVER do that again.

 

[nicksol86]

I took 2 cuttings from a plant
Put both in 3 gal containers side by side
Received same nutes on same days in same soil.
One i trimmed the bottom 4 nodes off
One i didn't.
The plant I defoliated has buds 1/3 larger than the undefoliated plant.
The non defoliated one obviously has the smaller nugs on those lower branches
But other than that the defoliated plant is smashing her sister.
Thicker buds
Larger buds
Tighter buds than the non defoliated

I'm trying to load comparison pics but my net is JANKY today


First pic is nondefoliated
Has the few buddies on the lower branches

The second is defoliated
Its naked stalk until big bud development which continues up the entirety of the main stalk.

Both plants suffering from same Nitrogen toxicity
Ps. clones were taken July 17
Vegged them just for about a week Then put into 12 12

Did you defoliate in veg or budding? What week did you defoliate? Like a week or 2 before you flipped to flowering cycle or 1st 2nd or 3rd week in flowering? I might try defoliation again but definitely not taking all the fan leaves off, that was a bad mistake. And my 2nd mistake was defoliation during 3rd week flowering. I feel it stunted my plants and buds were so slow at swelling up. I never had a problem with nute burn until I removed the fan leaves then all the smaller leaves hanging out the buds, the sugar leafs all started to burn after I made my mistakes. I will only defoliate in veg 2 weeks before flowering starts and I'll only take lower fan leaves, lollipoping like you did so the tops focus on bigger buds like described in your post

 

[nicksol86]

I trim lower bud sites and fan leaves and remove fan leaves at canopy level only when they are covering buds. But I don't go crazy and remove all fan leaves. That's stupid.

A few grows ago I was lazy and let the plant grow natural and the buds were much smaller. I turned the whole crop to hash. I'd NEVER do that again.

I learned the hard way my first grow. I won't make the same mistakes again. But I won't give up on defoliation completely. I will do it in veg. I will lollipop them like you said in your post, lollipoping is removing the lowest growth that doesn't receive much light so the top buds get the most focus where the light is strongest. And taking a couple fan leaves up top to let light to the lower sites can also be good in moderation. Not removing them all like I did. I believe defoliation is important, but it's important you do it right or suffer losing a whole harvest like I did my first grow. Lessons learned

 

[Prince Vegeta]

Did you defoliate in veg or budding? What week did you defoliate? Like a week or 2 before you flipped to flowering cycle or 1st 2nd or 3rd week in flowering? I might try defoliation again but definitely not taking all the fan leaves off, that was a bad mistake. And my 2nd mistake was defoliation during 3rd week flowering. I feel it stunted my plants and buds were so slow at swelling up. I never had a problem with nute burn until I removed the fan leaves then all the smaller leaves hanging out the buds, the sugar leafs all started to burn after I made my mistakes. I will only defoliate in veg 2 weeks before flowering starts and I'll only take lower fan leaves, lollipoping like you did so the tops focus on bigger buds like described in your post

I'm still learning so I did it wrong and still saw results.
I didn't trim off the bottom branches until i was at ariundbweek 2 of flowering
I should have done it sooner and this run I've been trying a different method
Just removing them in veg. But im trying a scrog this time so won't be defoliating nuch nore than the useless leaves that revive no light beneath the net

 

[CannaBruh]

I strip every fan EVERY ONE and have not had as terrible results as some of you are reporting? Are you gentle when you strip or are your ripping them off like a maniac?

 

[nicksol86]

I strip every fan EVERY ONE and have not had as terrible results as some of you are reporting? Are you gentle when you strip or are your ripping them off like a maniac?

I did it week 3 flower. Do you do it in flower or veg right before you flip to 12/12

 

[CannaBruh]

I did it week 3 flower. Do you do it in flower or veg right before you flip to 12/12

In veg at any time.
In flower as soon as bud sites are forming when the stretch is finished which usually falls around 14-21 days
I'll pull the full size fans here and there as they grow back beyond the first few weeks but only if they are shading significant flower sites. Nothing major is getting stripped after the initial strip until fans show they want to be removed.

 

[neckpod]

I do as many others do and find it works better than trying to get light to the lower bud sites.... here is what i do in short..

6 inch tall and at least 4 to 6 nodes... Top
12 to 18 inch (strain dependant) First trim! take the bottom 2/3 of each branch..
Then wait a few days for them to recover from this stressfull shit and flip 12/12 on signs of new growth...
As soon as all bud sites show female flowers i tidy up the lower 2/3 of the plant again this is not as harsh as the first trim.. keeping the stress as low as possible.. light will only be useful for the top 3rd of the plant just get rid of the rest...

I find this give bigger weight up top and cuts trimming time in half.. I hate trimming the shit so this is the big plus for me.

Happy Growing

Booooooooom!

 

[K Rae]

I like to trim a little at a time, more often, than doing a lot at once. Less stress on them.

I tried growing them without trimming, last grow, and wasn't impressed by the yield. I usually do trim, but I wanted to see how not trimming compared. Now, I'm growing the same four plants, and trimming along the way. I can already see how much better the grow will turn out.

Check out the last few pages of my RDWC Grow thread below, to see how bushy my girls were last grow, and the current grow.

JSB99... where is the link to your rdwc grow thread.. I would love to check it out...
Your comments seem solid & I appreciate your approach. I've been strictly a sun/soil girl for about 12 years now... first time indoors & dwc but in day 42 of flower round 1 & SUPER curious if I should do the day 42 strip or not? Did day 21 & they seemed to love it... there's so much conflicting info out there I'm curious what you do...tx

 

[JSB99]

JSB99... where is the link to your rdwc grow thread.. I would love to check it out...
Your comments seem solid & I appreciate your approach. I've been strictly a sun/soil girl for about 12 years now... first time indoors & dwc but in day 42 of flower round 1 & SUPER curious if I should do the day 42 strip or not? Did day 21 & they seemed to love it... there's so much conflicting info out there I'm curious what you do...tx

Hey there, K

I love hydro! Everything happens so quick, and it's more like a science experiment. I see 3" to 4" growth a day, at times during the grow!

Yes, I highly recommend trimming a few weeks into veg, and a couple weeks into flower. Like you, i was highly conflicted about trimming, based on all the varying feedback I was getting. So I did a test, and the results couldn't be more clear. Here's the page where I show the vast difference between trimming, and not. My conclusion is that trimming shouldn't be done if growing outside. Reason being, the sun has the power to reach all parts of the plant. 95% of the light passes through the leaves to reach the inner leaves. Trimming leaves is damaging the plant, and it takes time and energy to recover from that. If not gaining anything from trimming, it'd be a waste of time, trimming/damaging the plant. With lights you're only going to be able to penetrate a foot or so into the canopy, even with the most powerful. Therefore, we modify the plant in ways to help make up for those losses in light power. Making an even canopy is a prime example of this, at the cost of damaging the plant and having to wait until it recovers. Also, the amount of circulation outside is vastly more than what can be created with indoor fans. Circulation through the plant is incredibly important. So again, we modify the plant to get the most out of what can be provided. Clearing out some leaves allows the air to easily flow through all parts of the plant. Sorry if I ra!bled LOL!

I have trimmed ever since I started growing, ten years ago, and have always had great results. The one time I tried leaving the plants alone, was a fairly unimpressive yield.

My thread is below, in my signature box, labeled "My RDWC/UC Grow Room"

 

[K Rae]

Hey there, K

I love hydro! Everything happens so quick, and it's more like a science experiment. I see 3" to 4" growth a day, at times during the grow!

Yes, I highly recommend trimming a few weeks into veg, and a couple weeks into flower. Like you, i was highly conflicted about trimming, based on all the varying feedback I was getting. So I did a test, and the results couldn't be more clear. Here's the page where I show the vast difference between trimming, and not. My conclusion is that trimming shouldn't be done if growing outside. Reason being, the sun has the power to reach all parts of the plant. 95% of the light passes through the leaves to reach the inner leaves. Trimming leaves is damaging the plant, and it takes time and energy to recover from that. If not gaining anything from trimming, it'd be a waste of time, trimming/damaging the plant. With lights you're only going to be able to penetrate a foot or so into the canopy, even with the most powerful. Therefore, we modify the plant in ways to help make up for those losses in light power. Making an even canopy is a prime example of this, at the cost of damaging the plant and having to wait until it recovers. Also, the amount of circulation outside is vastly more than what can be created with indoor fans. Circulation through the plant is incredibly important. So again, we modify the plant to get the most out of what can be provided. Clearing out some leaves allows the air to easily flow through all parts of the plant. Sorry if I ra!bled LOL!

I have trimmed ever since I started growing, ten years ago, and have always had great results. The one time I tried leaving the plants alone, was a fairly unimpressive yield.

My thread is below, in my signature box, labeled "My RDWC/UC Grow Room"

Thank you so much. I'll check it out asap. I'm pretty sold on it based on the day 21 results and the plants seeming to love it and the budsites it uncovered and created are insane. You don't pay attention to any of this shit outdoors... it's crazy how you can be doing this for over a decade outside and move indoors and feel like the biggest rookie and noob.
Everything DOES happen so fast which is good when it's good and bad when its bad
I'm using HLG lights cuz they're the best and my genetics and nutrients are stellar. Dark heart clones (BlackBerry Fire) and current culture nutes. Dwc but clearly evolving to rdwc because why wouldn't you... ha!

 

[JSB99]

Thank you so much. I'll check it out asap. I'm pretty sold on it based on the day 21 results and the plants seeming to love it and the budsites it uncovered and created are insane. You don't pay attention to any of this shit outdoors... it's crazy how you can be doing this for over a decade outside and move indoors and feel like the biggest rookie and noob.
Everything DOES happen so fast which is good when it's good and bad when its bad
I'm using HLG lights cuz they're the best and my genetics and nutrients are stellar. Dark heart clones (BlackBerry Fire) and current culture nutes. Dwc but clearly evolving to rdwc because why wouldn't you... ha!

You bet

It's funny, I felt like a total noob when I first tried to grow in soil, after growing hydro for so long LOL!

You're anything but a noob. You've got a big part of the challenge down already, which is that you've been growing for a while. Things do happen much more quickly, and that includes the bad, like you mentioned. But, if you walked home from school the same way for a long time, then decided to start running, the course hasn't changed, just the speed.

If you start at the beginning of my thread, I start my RDWC design with 5-gallon buckets, but then move to using 27-gallon totes, which works much better. When you're ready to move to a recirculating system, and if you use my thread as a guide, start off a few pages into my thread where I change direction.

Happy growing