Good ole' trial & error... On the error side again; What went wrong with this soil batch?

[NewGrower2011]

That's the plan; I figured a light tea wouldn't hurt and had already planned for at least one around this time. Also I've always had purple stems but even in this new strain it's the same. When I search for yellowing and purple stems phos def comes right up... Pics seem to jive. More homework ahead of me.

My current soil batch definitely had far lower P levels than N/K but I did bump the P up a little by mixing in some light amending of P-only (or nearly P-only) sources before transplanting into the 7 gals; Also added more aeration (both perlite and biochar). So I wouldn't be surprised given the MammothP and starting with lower amounts that I could now be in a deficiency.

Too bad soil tests aren't something you can just stick in a probe and get results on your phone! Some day... Some day...

I'm assuming it's too late to do anything about a P def organically - so I'm open to options for some instant available sources; would rather do it now than later in flower/near the end.

 

[NewGrower2011]

Well I'm not convinced my symptoms match anything definitive; Hell a couple pics showed N def with yellow leaves that looked similar. Then other places describe micro def symptoms that sound like maybes as well. I don't know if there's any ph issue but since i have a bluelab soil pen available I guess I should at least do a sanity check and rule it out...

 

[NewGrower2011]

The more I check things out and compare pics; I suspect there's 2 things going on.... P def and most likely 1 or more micro def. Now the question is would this be due to none in the soil versus a lockout. The underwatering is also a big factor I'm sure - they suck those 7gals dry pretty quick and in my setup I'm also not able to really saturate to run-off without leaving water in tray which then screws with humidity at lights off. Need to get those aspects under control before the next attempt.

 

[dubekoms]

The more I check things out and compare pics; I suspect there's 2 things going on.... P def and most likely 1 or more micro def. Now the question is would this be due to none in the soil versus a lockout. The underwatering is also a big factor I'm sure - they suck those 7gals dry pretty quick and in my setup I'm also not able to really saturate to run-off without leaving water in tray which then screws with humidity at lights off. Need to get those aspects under control before the next attempt.

Are you growing under leds? Got any pics?

 

[NewGrower2011]

can't do the pics thing in my current circumstances, but yes, CLW SolarSystem 550 pair. On a 4x4... I believe that's right at the upper end of what they recommend for watts/ft2 - around the 400 per so 800/16 = 50w per ft2.

I'll see if I can link pics that shows the same symptoms - found a good image of the common Jorge illustration but trying to compare with real pics through various searches...

 

[NewGrower2011]

Well no definitive stance still; I did use a 24hr tea brew and since I had a soil report with very low phos I thought it can't hurt to put a tablespoon or so of rock phosphate in a jug with the tea and shake the hell out of it and then water it into each 7gal. I am pretty much thinking under watering is one of the major factors but the symptoms manifesting make me think there are defs or lockouts going on. The yellowing started from bottom to top and the signs of phos def are mainly at top. Otherwise flowering is still progressing... We'll have to see but next time around I'm considering if I shouldn't just a find a 1-shot source that I can order pre-made but shipping just kills you on soil...

 

[dubekoms]

can't do the pics thing in my current circumstances, but yes, CLW SolarSystem 550 pair. On a 4x4... I believe that's right at the upper end of what they recommend for watts/ft2 - around the 400 per so 800/16 = 50w per ft2.

I'll see if I can link pics that shows the same symptoms - found a good image of the common Jorge illustration but trying to compare with real pics through various searches...

Plants under led need more magnesium than other lights, does it look like a mg deficiency? How are the temps and humidity?

 

[NewGrower2011]

My original soil report had me with a high mag level already so I wasn't suspecting anything that was already reported in excess; As for env control it could improve for sure - but mid 70's to mid 80's typically and humidity is running a bit high during lights off.

I wouldn't expect to have consumed the excess mag even wtih intense LED lighting - right? 4x the recommended level per the report (page 1 of this thread for the image of soil report).

Thinking about looking for a wifi (or minimally usb) data logger for temp/humidity... Also hearing of some soil probes - but I'd expect those to be ungodly expensive still (and questionable accuracy?).

 

[Serverchris]

https://www.ebay.com/p/Pure-Organic-Micronutrient-Booster-Complete-Plant-Turf-Nutrients-Simple-Grow/575191600?iid=323360279320&chn=ps&ul_ref=https%3A%2F%2Frover.ebay.com%2Frover%2F1%2F711-117182-37290-0%2F2%3Fmpre%3Dhttps%253A%252F%252Fwww.ebay.com%252Fp%252FPure-Organic-Micronutrient-Booster-Complete-Plant-Turf-Nutrients-Simple-Grow%252F575191600%253Fiid%253D323360279320%2526chn%253Dps%26itemid%3D323360279320%26targetid%3D497858308754%26device%3Dm%26adtype%3Dpla%26googleloc%3D1027201%26poi%3D%26campaignid%3D1481353837%26adgroupid%3D56758917509%26rlsatarget%3Dpla-497858308754%26abcId%3D1139286%26merchantid%3D6296724%26pt%3D%26gclid%3DCj0KCQjw3ebdBRC1ARIsAD8U0V6EvjTgo_jXUGxGrf-YdOoTw0CxoyFajze7OkKAS-HBi4a8iFSzdGMaArKEEALw_wcB%26srcrot%3D711-117182-37290-0%26rvr_id%3D1696077825177%26rvr_ts%3D5205c6311660ab14f425f5d3fff86eb7

I think I'm going to try some of this for micro supplementation. I use tm-7 and like it alot but dont want to add humic that often.

 

[NewGrower2011]

My problem comes down to timing - previous suggestions from folks like Mustang were pointing out the micros, but most of the fixes were oriented towards a foliar application. I had small flowers forming and decided that foliar wasn't an option - that ship had sailed. Then I couldn't find a good amendment that only had what I needed and not incorporating other things I was at least normal/target levels of. Now, on second thought - since everything else was in the 3x and 4x range I guess bumping the 'within range' minerals up a bit wouldn't have hurt probably and may actually have made it more 'balanced' somewhat as far in proportion to one another.

So all I was able to do initial after discussing the micro defs, was some Azomite and worm casting a couple weeks ago; Then this latest effort applied the tea and a small amount of phos since the symptoms up top definitely resembled a phos def... The bottom-up symptoms were more associated with micros which is why I started thinking there's simply more than 1 thing going on here.

I happened to be looking at TM-7 again and noticed that it's not just humic/fulvic but also micros; So again amendment based and may not have time to take effect given mobility of the minerals and plant uptake - but I figure that might be the only course of action I can take for this run. I was looking for micro amendments that didn't bump up copper, iron or aluminum levels but raised the others. Also wasn't sure if you could get 'chelated' when not talking about a liquid/foilar solution.

 

[NewGrower2011]

fwiw - the TM-7 sounds like a good fit for my circumstances other than I may raise the copper & iron but proportionally it would still be 'under' the other levels which are in that 3x to 4x range...

Guaranteed Analysis:
Sulfur(S)........................2%
Copper (Cu)............0.31%
Boron (B).................0.37%
Iron (FE)......................1.2%
Cobalt (Co).............0.05%
Manganese (Mn)......1.2%
Molybdenum (M0)..0.1%
Zinc................................0.7%

Non-plant food ingredients: Humic 40% & Fulvic 10.5%

Derived from: Boron, cobalt sulfate, copper sulfate, ferrous sulfate, manganese sulfate, sodium molybdenate, zinc sulfate and chelated with humic and fulvic acids derived from fresh water cretaceous humate deposits.

 

[Serverchris]

The tm-7 works really well, I didnt have any deficiencies per day but did a soil test and saw my soil was low in micros. I been using tm-7 once a week and they have become the healthiest looking plants I've ever had.

 

[NewGrower2011]

I actually decided to try BuildASoil's "BIG 6" which is based on TM-7... Awaiting shipping now; Probably too late but will have it for the next time at least and get some incorporated into the soil now since it sounds like it needs a little time.

 

[Ecompost]

Interesting stuff from article.:
"Another important quality of the humates is their ability to bond iron and aluminum ions into complexes, since their excess amount in soil results in poor phosphorus nutrition of the plants.Iron forms complexes with the humates, which ensures its transportation to the plants, while aluminum creates insoluble compounds with the humates, which neutralizes damaging effect of aluminum on phosphates."

Goes to show you can be a successful farmer, by creating and maintaining health soil. (It then takes care of the plants.) One does not have to be a rocket scientist genius.

For me, understanding why we do something and what any benefit might be, helps to spread the critical nature of our job, and soils importance for humanity to non farmers, non growers etc. While we dont need to be scientists, we should be observant and try to understand what we do and as much of its impact as we might.
We will need the support of all society to protect the soil and its humus components, and to raise the profile and so promote more equitable policy protecting our food supply and all farming jobs, esp small scale local.
Those of us who have seen sense to protect and more, grow soil, as we grow food and medicine, need to be better at explaining what we do as regenerative organic farmers, so we can push the narrative in our favor and help drive unhealthy farming practice out of the industry. Bio Organic really is the best answer for food and medicinal production.
When we have understood that the vast majority of plant nutrition is located in the humus layers of healthy soil, and we have made the link between healthy living soil and human health, we will be on our way to becoming better growers, guardians of soil and we may have more hope of opening up the access of decent organic nutrient dense food and meds for everyone, not just the liberal elite at a farmers market buying over priced rocket salad.