Long time lurker in need of help

[The Sex Pistils]

I'm at my wit's end with this one. This is how a good 75% of my top leaves look like:

This is from a White Widow 41 days into flowering. I also have one more WW, a Critical and a Sour Diesel in a single 15 gallon DWC reservoir. (I know now it was definitely not a good idea, but I managed up to now...) I use GH Flora series with Hydroguard added at every change. I've been documenting the grow herehttps://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1VgIs-pS2UuEqY1if1GXddX-LA0z80Brq?usp=sharing), but only started to record everything after flipping to flower. (Feel free to use the template if you wish, btw: it's a bit amateurish, but works.)

The lights are homemade LEDs (this thing here: https://www.rollitup.org/t/boring-ol-230w-154lm-w-led-strip-build.943311/page-13#post-14380497), putting out ~300 watts in a 2x4x6 tent. They're about 1' above the canopy.

The problem started to show about 10 days ago. First I suspected calcium deficiency, given that the pH was under 5.7 for a long period, so I flushed the reservoir with tapwater at pH6.2 and 153ppm for 24 hours and refilled after with nutrients at 1150ppm (~1000 actual ppm) at pH6.3 to no avail. I have not used any extra CalMag, thinking that with hard tap water (150-170ppm) I wouldn't need it. I ordered some, but I'm not sure if it would help.

The roots look and smell healthy and while it's fairly crowded down there, there's still plenty of room in the reservoir. Strong airflow from four large airstones and a good pump. I also left the recirculating pump running continuously.

I've had a problem with nutrient burn in veg--the spot on the journal where ppm was over 2000--but a reservoir change with the correct levels fixed it in a couple of days. (Tangent, but GH feedcharts: add this much of this and this much of that and you should get this ppm. Except it's like double that... I'm going to use J.R. Peters' or Maxi on my next grow in any case.)

The plants are still beefing up the flowers and they smell really strong for what it's worth.

This is my first DWC setup, I used hempy buckets before. Everything was going faster and stronger than before until this shit showed up. I'm out of ideas at this point and would very much appreciate any suggestions.

Thank you for your help in advance.

 

[JohnDee]

(Tangent, but GH feedcharts: add this much of this and this much of that and you should get this ppm. Except it's like double that...

I don't know TSP...this sounds wrong. Either you measured wrong or something is up with your meter. I just don't see how their concentration could be that for off.

I've never done dwc and never will. Too twitchy. The only real advice I can give you is on ph. 5.5 is OK for hydro and it's actually good to allow a drift upward. Start low and as nutrients are used up, you'll get a drift upward. That allows proper absorption of all nutrients.
JD

 

[MrGhettoGrower]

I'm just so happen to be trying out the Flors series for the first time to I went my this feed chart generator the ppm was in the park today but I always DOUBLE check it! I'm dirt grower I would say u have nutrients issues . Have you tried this chart it's what I am
https://generalhydroponics.com/feedchart-generator/

 

[Dynamo626]

Looks like a phosperous deficiency but your ppm is already kind of high. I would drop the ppm of the base nutes by 100 and add 150-200 ppm of a phosperous booster.

 

[polishpollack]

high ppm. low pH. you wrote the reasons why those leaves look like that but you can't see it. 2000 ppm is way too high. make it 800 or 1000 tops. pH at 6.0 with some fluctuation.

 

[The Sex Pistils]

Looks like a phosperous deficiency but your ppm is already kind of high. I would drop the ppm of the base nutes by 100 and add 150-200 ppm of a phosperous booster.

I will, thanks.

 

[coreywebster]

A full plant pic would be useful.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

high ppm. low pH. you wrote the reasons why those leaves look like that but you can't see it. 2000 ppm is way too high. make it 800 or 1000 tops. pH at 6.0 with some fluctuation.

too much, cut it back, you're causing your own lockouts trying to cram more shit down their throat

 

[The Sex Pistils]

A full plant pic would be useful.

Indeed:

 

[coreywebster]

Raise your light. Looks similar to the damage I saw when I had my quantum boards too close.

Raise it 6" and see if the problem slows down or stops getting worse. They are very strong lights.

The first pics you posted did look like a p def. But that should be found on lower leaves which is not what you described.

Raising or dimming would be my first port of call before I go chasing my tail with deficiencies or lock outs.
Of course though the other guys are right, keep nutrients at lowish levels and ph in range, that's just a given.
You will find the combination of massive amounts of photons combined with hydro means the slightest fuck up can smack you in the face real quick.

Hope you get it sorted. Try not to lose any sleep over it!

 

[coreywebster]

Actually looks like some bleached bud tips too? Or is that an illusion of light

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Actually looks like some bleached bud tips too? Or is that an illusion of light

i think it's the light, but hard to tell . and i agree, move the light back a little. even if that isn't the problem, no point in trying to put a plant with a problem into overdrive.

 

[The Sex Pistils]

So, on a whim I downloaded a lightmeter app and checked the levels on the canopy. (I know it's par, not lux, but I don't have $300+ to get a par meter, so this will do for now...) Now I'm beginning to think that I may just have light burn here because the highest levels (~40,000) correspond to the areas with the most severe damage. I've raised the lights, we'll see what happens.

I did order some phosphorus boosters, too and will replace the reservoir with FloraMicro and Bloom 1 to 3 with half recommended dose of Flower Fuel at >1000ppm and 6.2pH. Flower Fuel was recommended by a gardener friend when I asked her about P boosters. It's 1-34-32 NPK, I was wondering if anyone here has any experience with it?

Man, reading about leaf symptoms is like browsing WebMD: a half an hour there and you're convinced you have about fifteen different types of cancer. Or Lupus, the very least.

I appreciate all your responses, but I thought I made clear the 2000+ ppm reading was a one-off in veg and was fixed pretty quickly. (It was actually less than that if you deduct the ~150 in my tap water.) The spreadsheet with my journal has the ppm column conditionally formatted to show in red readings above 1500ppm (1650 - 150), and if you look at it, there aren't any red cells in the last 15 days, for what it's worth. (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1NlGXQ8DxHTLl3Kd0LVpYdubFdOT_985bAZnUyxX9YCU/edit?usp=sharing) I also read that all three of these strains can use/require fairly high nutrient levels, hence the high ppms in the first few weeks of flower. I'm just explaining my choices here, not arguing, by the way. I tend to believe in experience over theory and very much appreciate the advice of experienced growers as I'm anything but. (This is only my third indoor grow, guerilla growing some 30 years ago doesn't really count as experience, even if I feel quite nostalgic about it.)

Thank you again for all your help.

 

[The Sex Pistils]

i think it's the light, but hard to tell . and i agree, move the light back a little. even if that isn't the problem, no point in trying to put a plant with a problem into overdrive.

Yes, I just did, thanks.

Actually looks like some bleached bud tips too? Or is that an illusion of light

The one in the middle of the first picture is bleached, yes. I would never have expected 230 watts about a foot away to do that, damn.

Talking about bleached tops, I came across this article: https://www.leafly.com/news/growing/white-tips-on-cannabis-buds. The authors claim they had buds with "albino" tops tested and the THC levels came back higher than the normal ones. What do you guys think?

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

i count the tap water ppm, they're in there, why wouldn't you count them? most of it is going to be sodium, calcium, chlorine, ammonium.....all things the plant WILL absorb.

 

[coreywebster]

Yes, I just did, thanks.



The one in the middle of the first picture is bleached, yes. I would never have expected 230 watts about a foot away to do that, damn.

Talking about bleached tops, I came across this article: https://www.leafly.com/news/growing/white-tips-on-cannabis-buds. The authors claim they had buds with "albino" tops tested and the THC levels came back higher than the normal ones. What do you guys think?

I was surprised myself when I had similar symptoms

I have heard it said by lots of folks that getting bleached tips is a bonus, but I wonder if that is some info passed around by old LED companies? It used to be more common with the old blurples.
It would make sense that the THC could be higher as its the sunscreen of the plant to protect from the suns UV.
But i have had a couple of tops bleached before and i would personally prefer not to have them again. I don't think it looks good in the bag

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I was surprised myself when I had similar symptoms

I have heard it said by lots of folks that getting bleached tips is a bonus, but I wonder if that is some info passed around by old LED companies? It used to be more common with the old blurples.
It would make sense that the THC could be higher as its the sunscreen of the plant to protect from the suns UV.
But i have had a couple of tops bleached before and i would personally prefer not to have them again. I don't think it looks good in the bag

i've never considered bleached tips a bonus. i think people have confused it with "snow caps" or w/e it's called in your area, something like this
https://www.leafly.com/news/growing/white-tips-on-cannabis-buds

 

[The Sex Pistils]

i count the tap water ppm, they're in there, why wouldn't you count them? most of it is going to be sodium, calcium, chlorine, ammonium.....all things the plant WILL absorb.

That makes all kinds of sense, actually. Blame bad advice from these Internets, like this guy here:

.

Thank you for this.

 

[The Sex Pistils]

fIt would make sense that the THC could be higher as its the sunscreen of the plant to protect from the suns UV.

Yes, that's what I thought, too. I think I'll save those buds (this bud, for now) and will do some human trials on them. (I may even volunteer myself. )

 

[The Sex Pistils]

i've never considered bleached tips a bonus. i think people have confused it with "snow caps" or w/e it's called in your area, something like this
https://www.leafly.com/news/growing/white-tips-on-cannabis-buds

So they're not the same.? How do I tell the difference, given that up close mine looks identical to the one on the photo in the article?