Budget no frills led bs

INF Flux

INF Flux

Well-Known Member
Or_Gro said:
Hormones are in apical meristem (tips) not leaves...

It’s all about light after dealing with apical dominance: you can do it by bending and positioning or removing, one way is faster effect than the other - removing
Click to expand...
They must be present in sufficient quantity or else the fan leaf topping wouldn't work and the way i do wouldn't work. They do work. I got the idea after being curious about why the fan removal worked and it led me to a paper that was stating the hormones were predominant in the apical leaf tips. Perhaps enough auxin is removed to signal the stress response but not enough to slow it down?
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
INF Flux said:
They must be present in sufficient quantity or else the fan leaf topping wouldn't work and the way i do wouldn't work. They do work. I got the idea after being curious about why the fan removal worked and it led me to a paper that was stating the hormones were predominant in the apical leaf tips. Perhaps enough auxin is removed to signal the stress response but not enough to slow it down?
Click to expand...
Leaf tip or tip leaves?

Left side above ground, right side below ground.
075A6975-A534-4004-8ACA-0676923A3513.jpeg

The hormones are in the tips of mains and laterals, in the apical meristem (left above). Perhaps they were referring to the leaves on the meristem...but these are very tiny, immature leaves...
 
INF Flux

INF Flux

Well-Known Member
diggin the conversation here although I am starting to see how active participation will get expensive, cough, far red thread, cough. haha, am sure it'll pay off though.
A side by side down the road as far as training goes is starting to go around in my head. Might be a while before it's convenient to do but it'd be interesting.
What should parameters be?
Equal lighting
Same cut, starting at equal stage of growth. (extra cuts and pick for conformity?)
sample size? I mean I'm set up to flower 4 properly. Not exactly conclusive.
feed to potential or feed equally?
I'm sure there is a ton I didn't think of in my slightly buzzed and happily medicated current state.
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
INF Flux said:
diggin the conversation here although I am starting to see how active participation will get expensive, cough, far red thread, cough. haha, am sure it'll pay off though.
A side by side down the road as far as training goes is starting to go around in my head. Might be a while before it's convenient to do but it'd be interesting.
What should parameters be?
Equal lighting
Same cut, starting at equal stage of growth. (extra cuts and pick for conformity?)
sample size? I mean I'm set up to flower 4 properly. Not exactly conclusive.
feed to potential or feed equally?
I'm sure there is a ton I didn't think of in my slightly buzzed and happily medicated current state.
Click to expand...
When i took statistics, one of the things i learned was that sample size had to be at least 30 to approximate the bell curve. If i learned it correctly it means that none of these side-by-sides are statistically valid.

The best we can do is to try to keep eveything the “same”, except for what we’re testing.

Reality is that even clones are not the “same”, yeah same dna, but almost all environmental conditions are somewhat different, simply because they are in different locations in the growspace, and there aren’t enuff of them to even these differences out.
 
led1k

led1k

Well-Known Member
Or_Gro said:
Leaf tip or tip leaves?

Left side above ground, right side below ground.
View attachment 4217261

The hormones are in the tips of mains and laterals, in the apical meristem (left above). Perhaps they were referring to the leaves on the meristem...but these are very tiny, immature leaves...
Click to expand...
Any chance you can post a larger version? My eyes can't read even after blowing it up (too fuzzy).
 
led1k

led1k

Well-Known Member
Or_Gro said:
Hormones are in apical meristem (tips) not leaves...

It’s all about light after dealing with apical dominance: you can do it by bending and positioning or removing, one way is faster effect than the other - removing
Click to expand...
Trying to understand why removing would be faster... Help please?
 
INF Flux

INF Flux

Well-Known Member
led1k said:
Trying to understand why removing would be faster... Help please?
Click to expand...
So I'm not stating this as fact, just my feelings off the limited different things I've tried.
When you top, or do any other method to induce branching, you are stressing out the plant and taking away it's hormone production site. Until the plant generates new sites growth pauses.
So I guess we are discussing how to achieve the desired result, branching, with the least amount of induced stress and the least amount of a pause in growth.
By removing part of a leaf (apical meristem young or subtending leaf) I'm leaving most of that hormone producing area intact. If I only remove material from the subtending leaf the young leaf doesn't seem to slow at all. Once branching has been induced the plant will outgrow the trimmed leaves and they'll end up being undergrowth anyways.
LST results in a similar thing but does so by bending the stem, which I assume reduces circulation to the apical material. Having been choked out in jujitsu from time to time, I have to think thats going to have more of an impact, I've also snapped stems a couple times so it's not my go to. ME GARDEN, SMASH. lol. I do like it during stretch to slow down that one branch that wants to tower over the rest every time.
 
INF Flux

INF Flux

Well-Known Member
Pics or it didnt happen.

Dark helmets are getting rotated through the flower tray for sexing. As soon as the last GC plant is done and I know M/F's I'll switch it to veg and try out the new pots. You can see the branching is beginning.

1019dh.jpg
This Gorilla Cookies is a little further along. You can see where I've trimmed the leaf tips twice to get it to branch. As the branches catch up with the top, they'll get the same treatment to achieve a level canopy.
1019gc.jpg
 
newgrow16

newgrow16

Well-Known Member
INF Flux said:
So I'm not stating this as fact, just my feelings off the limited different things I've tried.
When you top, or do any other method to induce branching, you are stressing out the plant and taking away it's hormone production site. Until the plant generates new sites growth pauses.
So I guess we are discussing how to achieve the desired result, branching, with the least amount of induced stress and the least amount of a pause in growth.
By removing part of a leaf (apical meristem young or subtending leaf) I'm leaving most of that hormone producing area intact. If I only remove material from the subtending leaf the young leaf doesn't seem to slow at all. Once branching has been induced the plant will outgrow the trimmed leaves and they'll end up being undergrowth anyways.
LST results in a similar thing but does so by bending the stem, which I assume reduces circulation to the apical material. Having been choked out in jujitsu from time to time, I have to think thats going to have more of an impact, I've also snapped stems a couple times so it's not my go to. ME GARDEN, SMASH. lol. I do like it during stretch to slow down that one branch that wants to tower over the rest every time.
Click to expand...
I agree with above from what i have read, but may have read that LST brings the apical meristem below other branches, triggering the hormone activity. I have tried neither. I have just chopped the apical meristem and waited 7-10 days for a new one to develop and have not been happy with plant structure after. Now just Christmas trees until i get better.
 
led1k

led1k

Well-Known Member
INF Flux said:
LST results in a similar thing but does so by bending the stem, which I assume reduces circulation to the apical material.
Click to expand...
I guess if it's bent so far that it gets kinked but if done gently and there's no kink then what would cause this to be slower? I too have done the "ME SMASH" version and broken a tip or two but practice helps the gentle side :-)
 
INF Flux

INF Flux

Well-Known Member
led1k said:
I guess if it's bent so far that it gets kinked but if done gently and there's no kink then what would cause this to be slower? I too have done the "ME SMASH" version and broken a tip or two but practice helps the gentle side :-)
Click to expand...
I guess the "done gently" part is where I've had an issue. I'm better than i used to be with it and the slow gentle bend is definitely the way to go. The worst I can do with the trimming method is not remove enough to make it work and in that case, trim again.
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
newgrow16 said:
I agree with above from what i have read, but may have read that LST brings the apical meristem below other branches, triggering the hormone activity. I have tried neither. I have just chopped the apical meristem and waited 7-10 days for a new one to develop and have not been happy with plant structure after. Now just Christmas trees until i get better.
Click to expand...
That apical meristem below other tops thing
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
led1k said:
I guess if it's bent so far that it gets kinked but if done gently and there's no kink then what would cause this to be slower? I too have done the "ME SMASH" version and broken a tip or two but practice helps the gentle side :-)
Click to expand...
Kink has nothin to do with it.
 
Or_Gro

Or_Gro

Well-Known Member
INF Flux said:
I guess the "done gently" part is where I've had an issue. I'm better than i used to be with it and the slow gentle bend is definitely the way to go. The worst I can do with the trimming method is not remove enough to make it work and in that case, trim again.
Click to expand...
That slow gentle bend thing
 
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