(Pics) what’s my deficiency?

[Tuckatan]

No idea what to make of this post..one you say you don't use it..it was a mistake you mentioned it prior..then you follow up again with saying you're feeding it that lol. I don't know what you are doing...you keep mentioning you don't use the grow because of the excess nitrogen (2-1-6 npk)..but you're using micro which is 5-0-1 npk? Then you say you feed at 035 ppm? what is 035? coming out at 700+? Either way..i gave my answer to what element that yellowing is representing..best of luck..happy growing!

I see how I may have confused you! I haven’t been using grow, only micro and bloom since seeing the N toxicity a couple weeks ago. When I’ve said grow, it’s a mistake, unless talking about pre-nitrogen burn!

The 035ppm water is after micro and bloom and calmag, but runoff water is at 700-900+ppm as the coco/peat has got nutes in, including guano, and magnesium limestone, amongst other things. My water goes in at 035 and comes out between 700-900ppm!
And thanks for the help bud!

 

[jtrizzy]

I see how I may have confused you! I haven’t been using grow, only micro and bloom since seeing the N toxicity a couple weeks ago. When I’ve said grow, it’s a mistake, unless talking about pre-nitrogen burn!

The 035ppm water is after micro and bloom and calmag, but runoff water is at 700-900+ppm as the coco/peat has got nutes in, including guano, and magnesium limestone, amongst other things. My water goes in at 035 and comes out between 700-900ppm!
And thanks for the help bud!

So you are adding, micro, bloom and calmag and your ppm's are at 035ppm, so 35ppm? Your ppm meter is broken brother.

 

[Tuckatan]

Yea, I figured because of the toxicity and the medium being pretty hot, with nute burn I couldn’t account for, I gave it the lightest nutes into deionised water I could!

 

[Blitz35]

I see how I may have confused you! I haven’t been using grow, only micro and bloom since seeing the N toxicity a couple weeks ago. When I’ve said grow, it’s a mistake, unless talking about pre-nitrogen burn!

The 035ppm water is after micro and bloom and calmag, but runoff water is at 700-900+ppm as the coco/peat has got nutes in, including guano, and magnesium limestone, amongst other things. My water goes in at 035 and comes out between 700-900ppm!
And thanks for the help bud!

Its what i didnt get..you say you had an N toxicity..so you cut out the 2-1-6, and continue to use the 5-0-1? That's what made no sense..if you have too much N..then cut out the micro or both. Also i didnt think after applying feed, the 035 meant 35 ppm..that's like putting 1 drop of nutes into a gallon of water..whats the point? Either way..from the images...for one reason or another..those black blotches you see on the leaves are from the plant either not getting enough phosphorus, or not having access to it due to lock out.

 

[Tuckatan]

Its what i didnt get..you say you had an N toxicity..so you cut out the 2-1-6, and continue to use the 5-0-1? That's what made no sense..if you have too much N..then cut out the micro or both. Also i didnt think after applying feed, the 035 meant 35 ppm..that's like putting 1 drop of nutes into a gallon of water..whats the point? Either way..from the images...for one reason or another..those black blotches you see on the leaves are from the plant either not getting enough phosphorus, or not having access to it due to lock out.

I get what you’re saying, but I’m a N00b, and I had the N toxicity, but was advised to keep with micros and but reduce the N but cutting out the grow. To you it may make no sense, and when you say it, I totally understand it, but when people with vastly more knowledge on the subject than I, advise that is what I should do, I simply followed the advice, though I understand what you’re saying, it doesn’t seem to make sense!

And I see, so I’m assuming as my medium contains guano, with an abundance of phosphorous, that I may have a lockout, perhaps due to the N toxicity? I will remove all nutes and plain water it and see if it helps! And yea, 35 ppm is fuck all, I know, but I wanted to give her something but nothing harmful! Go easy on me, it’s my first ever grow! Lol.

Appreciate the response though, thanks for the help!

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I would recommend an all purpose organic nute like MegaCrop. I only had real issues when using the synthetic stuff. I don't think it's the quality of the nutrients but rather our lack of knowledge. Sometimes, it's hard to pinpoint deficiency and toxicities so we end up giving the plants the wrong stuff. I hope I didn't offend you with the answer here. I just know that, for me, synthetic nutes is a recipe for failure haha.

EDIT :: A healthy soil is also a must. I think a lot of synthetic nutes kill the beneficial stuff in the soil. This will also effect your nutrient uptake. Good Luck Brother!

hate to be the one to tell you, but mega crop is far from organic. it IS a synthetic nute, it has nearly identical ingredients to jack's nutes.

 

[Blitz35]

I get what you’re saying, but I’m a N00b, and I had the N toxicity, but was advised to keep with micros and but reduce the N but cutting out the grow. To you it may make no sense, and when you say it, I totally understand it, but when people with vastly more knowledge on the subject than I, advise that is what I should do, I simply followed the advice, though I understand what you’re saying, it doesn’t seem to make sense!

And I see, so I’m assuming as my medium contains guano, with an abundance of phosphorous, that I may have a lockout, perhaps due to the N toxicity? I will remove all nutes and plain water it and see if it helps! And yea, 35 ppm is fuck all, I know, but I wanted to give her something but nothing harmful! Go easy on me, it’s my first ever grow! Lol.

Appreciate the response though, thanks for the help!

You will learn soon enough that those who you think have alot of knowledge, will destroy your grow! lol. Its why its important for you to learn it yourself so you can understand how it all works, it's for your own good!
As for the issue, not sure what you mean by having an abundance of phosphorus and so it's locked out? Guano can come in different forms, some are high in N, some in P. The excess nitrogen that you say you had, would not lockout phosphorus in your medium, unless its predominantly from an ammonium form of nitrogen, but based on above pic, your nitrogen is mostly in the nitrate form, so it doesn't affect phosphorus in your medium. What would affect phosphorus, besides ph obviously, and colder temps, is any other cation (positively charged ion)..those are calcium, magnesium, potassium, iron..the others are generally not around in enough amounts to cause an issue, unless you have very hard water!
The general idea is this...during vegetative growth, your npk values should be in a ratio of roughly 2-1-3 (for seedlings, less n and more P to help form roots). Calcium is a bit more important than magnesium at this stage as well, and should be kept at a minimum of 2:1 ratio, but ideally closer to 4:1 (depending on type of grow medium..the more compact it is, the higher the ratio should be).
For flowering (2nd-3rd week after light change), the npk should be adjusted closer to 1-2-3, with emphasis being on keeping nitrogen lower than potassium, and phosphorus in between the two. Magnesium becomes more important than calcium at this time, and the plant will use as much magnesium as phosphorus, so those 2 elements should be given in even amounts as the two work together (magnesium carries phosphorus through the plant).
This is the general idea, but of course minor tweeks can happen at times to fix possible issues...not all strains are exactly the same, but the general need of the plants remain the same at given times.

 

[Tuckatan]

You will learn soon enough that those who you think have alot of knowledge, will destroy your grow! lol. Its why its important for you to learn it yourself so you can understand how it all works, it's for your own good!
As for the issue, not sure what you mean by having an abundance of phosphorus and so it's locked out? Guano can come in different forms, some are high in N, some in P. The excess nitrogen that you say you had, would not lockout phosphorus in your medium, unless its predominantly from an ammonium form of nitrogen, but based on above pic, your nitrogen is mostly in the nitrate form, so it doesn't affect phosphorus in your medium. What would affect phosphorus, besides ph obviously, and colder temps, is any other cation (positively charged ion)..those are calcium, magnesium, potassium, iron..the others are generally not around in enough amounts to cause an issue, unless you have very hard water!
The general idea is this...during vegetative growth, your npk values should be in a ratio of roughly 2-1-3 (for seedlings, less n and more P to help form roots). Calcium is a bit more important than magnesium at this stage as well, and should be kept at a minimum of 2:1 ratio, but ideally closer to 4:1 (depending on type of grow medium..the more compact it is, the higher the ratio should be).
For flowering (2nd-3rd week after light change), the npk should be adjusted closer to 1-2-3, with emphasis being on keeping nitrogen lower than potassium, and phosphorus in between the two. Magnesium becomes more important than calcium at this time, and the plant will use as much magnesium as phosphorus, so those 2 elements should be given in even amounts as the two work together (magnesium carries phosphorus through the plant).
This is the general idea, but of course minor tweeks can happen at times to fix possible issues...not all strains are exactly the same, but the general need of the plants remain the same at given times.

Had to jump on the laptop for this one, as trying to formulate a coherent post on an iphone safari is a nightmare!! (and im sobre today, so i may not come accross as such a spaz).

I'm trying to learn as I go, and certainly a lot of useful information in your post, so thank you for that.

With regard to the lock out, thanks for clarifying, as i was under the impression that an abundance of any one nutrient, reaching toxicity, would lock out all further nutrients from being absorbed. What i can tell you is, this seems to have gotten worse since i attempted to treat with a light epsom salt foliar feed. Could this nitrogen content in the epsom salt feed add to the issue of locking out phosphourous? or would this only contribute at root level?

Also, when i checked my medium, it said that it had guano "packed with phosphourous!" were the words in the description! And also, you touched upon something else, my tap water! i was initially feeding tap water, and i live in a very hard water area, and my tap is around 450 ppm with an abundance of calcium, and many other minerals (picture added for reference). Could this initial feeding constantly with my very hard tap water, along with foliar feeds of epsom salt water have caused the phosphorous lockout?

i now feed with deionised water, though really struggling as to what to add to it, as i couldnt find what my issue actually was, which you have advised is a phosphorous deficiency. I didn't now what was causing the problem so i didnt know what to/not to add! picture of my tap water added so you can see what the plant being fed previously. Things seemed to have started going really south when i added light amount of nutes to my tap water (before realising how much was in it).

I have just stuck 25 litres of deionised water through, with the runoff initially starting at 1,300ppm, and at around 370ppm when i collected the last amount of run off, with PH at 6.5. Hopefully ive done the correct thing here, but new growth is affected with these brown spots, loads of leaves are going really crispy, and many of the growth is coming through clawed and a bit spindly.

Again, thanks for the in depth reply!

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Had to jump on the laptop for this one, as trying to formulate a coherent post on an iphone safari is a nightmare!! (and im sobre today, so i may not come accross as such a spaz).

I'm trying to learn as I go, and certainly a lot of useful information in your post, so thank you for that.

With regard to the lock out, thanks for clarifying, as i was under the impression that an abundance of any one nutrient, reaching toxicity, would lock out all further nutrients from being absorbed. What i can tell you is, this seems to have gotten worse since i attempted to treat with a light epsom salt foliar feed. Could this nitrogen content in the epsom salt feed add to the issue of locking out phosphourous? or would this only contribute at root level?

Also, when i checked my medium, it said that it had guano "packed with phosphourous!" were the words in the description! And also, you touched upon something else, my tap water! i was initially feeding tap water, and i live in a very hard water area, and my tap is around 450 ppm with an abundance of calcium, and many other minerals (picture added for reference). Could this initial feeding constantly with my very hard tap water, along with foliar feeds of epsom salt water have caused the phosphorous lockout?

i now feed with deionised water, though really struggling as to what to add to it, as i couldnt find what my issue actually was, which you have advised is a phosphorous deficiency. I didn't now what was causing the problem so i didnt know what to/not to add! picture of my tap water added so you can see what the plant being fed previously. Things seemed to have started going really south when i added light amount of nutes to my tap water (before realising how much was in it).

I have just stuck 25 litres of deionised water through, with the runoff initially starting at 1,300ppm, and at around 370ppm when i collected the last amount of run off, with PH at 6.5. Hopefully ive done the correct thing here, but new growth is affected with these brown spots, loads of leaves are going really crispy, and many of the growth is coming through clawed and a bit spindly.

Again, thanks for the in depth reply!

no N in epsom salts. it's Sulfur and Magnesium. there IS N in cal-mag, as well as iron. it's 2-0-0.

holy shit, your tap water already is nutes...looks like the guaranteed analysis on a tub of jack's...


your water

N......21 ppm
P...999 ppm
K...11.5 ppm
boron .088
copper .015
mag 8.39
cal 114

that's like bloom food already, if you added a little more K

 

[Blitz35]

Had to jump on the laptop for this one, as trying to formulate a coherent post on an iphone safari is a nightmare!! (and im sobre today, so i may not come accross as such a spaz).

I'm trying to learn as I go, and certainly a lot of useful information in your post, so thank you for that.

With regard to the lock out, thanks for clarifying, as i was under the impression that an abundance of any one nutrient, reaching toxicity, would lock out all further nutrients from being absorbed. What i can tell you is, this seems to have gotten worse since i attempted to treat with a light epsom salt foliar feed. Could this nitrogen content in the epsom salt feed add to the issue of locking out phosphourous? or would this only contribute at root level?

Also, when i checked my medium, it said that it had guano "packed with phosphourous!" were the words in the description! And also, you touched upon something else, my tap water! i was initially feeding tap water, and i live in a very hard water area, and my tap is around 450 ppm with an abundance of calcium, and many other minerals (picture added for reference). Could this initial feeding constantly with my very hard tap water, along with foliar feeds of epsom salt water have caused the phosphorous lockout?

i now feed with deionised water, though really struggling as to what to add to it, as i couldnt find what my issue actually was, which you have advised is a phosphorous deficiency. I didn't now what was causing the problem so i didnt know what to/not to add! picture of my tap water added so you can see what the plant being fed previously. Things seemed to have started going really south when i added light amount of nutes to my tap water (before realising how much was in it).

I have just stuck 25 litres of deionised water through, with the runoff initially starting at 1,300ppm, and at around 370ppm when i collected the last amount of run off, with PH at 6.5. Hopefully ive done the correct thing here, but new growth is affected with these brown spots, loads of leaves are going really crispy, and many of the growth is coming through clawed and a bit spindly.

Again, thanks for the in depth reply!

If that water report is accurate for what you have been giving..STOP it immediately!!! Absolutely that can, and likely, has, caused an issue! Calcium to magnesium ratio is at 15:1?! Sulfur at 115ppm?! Yes, that is absolutely a disaster waiting to happen...water that's over 200 ppm is not advised! Calcium is the element that has the strongest attraction to your cec sites..and 60-70% should be covered with calcium, but when calcium gets to be too much..it's a nightmare as it will be the 1st element that locks out all other cations as it has the strongest attraction..so potassium, phosphorus, magnesium issues, along with iron, will be the first to show up once calcium gets to be too much in your medium. Add to it that you are giving magnesium in a foliar manner (epsom salt has no nitrogen, its magnesium and sulfur), so what's in the root zone isnt taken up either..so now you have excess calcium, and magnesium possibly, that absolutely would affect phosphorus take up. The plant takes up anions and cations (negatively and positively charged ions)..think of it like a highway between the roots and the plant..on this highway..only a certain number of each..anions and cations, can be taken up..the plant can't tell the difference between say a sodium cation and a potassium cation..so it will take up whatever is there in abundance. A proper balance needs to be maintained in your medium for the plant to grow properly. Your grow medium...during flowering at its peak..should rest somewhere around 600+ ppm ideally..but again...with the right balance of each element.

 

[Blitz35]

no N in epsom salts. it's Sulfur and Magnesium. there IS N in cal-mag, as well as iron. it's 2-0-0.

holy shit, your tap water already is nutes...looks like the guaranteed analysis on a tub of jack's...
View attachment 4219758

your water

N......21 ppm
P...999 ppm
K...11.5 ppm
boron .088
copper .015
mag 8.39
cal 114

that's like bloom food already, if you added a little more K

The p is not at 900+ ppm..if you look at the unit of measurement..its not mg/l..its ug/l..so only 0.95 ppm of P

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

The p is not at 900+ ppm..if you look at the unit of measurement..its not mg/l..its ug/l..so only 0.95 ppm of P

ah, missed that....you could still use that water with nothing but a few drops of cal mag for veg...

 

[Blitz35]

ah, missed that....you could still use that water with nothing but a few drops of cal mag for veg...

I would still stay far away!!! besides the huge imbalance of cal:mag, then to add cal:mag..which is also more cal than mag..then on top of it..the high sulfates, sodium, and the worst..192ppm CaCO3! That in itself will drive your ph up in your medium no matter how much you ph it down! I would find another source of water!

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I would still stay far away!!! besides the huge imbalance of cal:mag, then to add cal:mag..which is also more cal than mag..then on top of it..the high sulfates, sodium, and the worst..192ppm CaCO3! That in itself will drive your ph up in your medium no matter how much you ph it down! I would find another source of water!

i agree, wasn't recommend that he do that, was just commenting on the amount of stuff in his water. he'd be way better off getting an ro system and adding a little cal mag to it regularly, than trying to compensate for the huge amounts of everything in his water, particularly cal.

 

[Tuckatan]

Awesome information guys! Yea, sorry, magnesium not nitrogen. All these chemical elements flying around I’m trying to wrap
My brain around what’s what lol.

You’ve pretty much diagnosed all My grow problems in this thread! I’m no longer using the tap water, but will the flush today be enough to bring it back to health? I’m using de ionised water only now, but there’s quite a lot of affected leaves. And should I start adding
like half strength nutes now I’ve done a flush on the medium? Should I maybe hold off, as my runoff is still at 350ish ppm so let it use up some nutrients in the soil first?