Deficiencies!

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ralphboss

Member
70's natureboy said:
I don't think your pots are too small. I have had very healthy, fat, out of control 2 foot indicas in 6" net pots on a flood table. Your pots only have holes on the bottom? I have never tried that because Iike my root zone to get lots of air. I have had algae in a flood tray and it didn't seem to hurt anything. I'm hard pressed to find a problem with your setup, grabbing at straws. Pots may not have enough air, LED's suck, EC and PH meters out of whack, I'm stumped.
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Yes my pots only have small drain holes in the side of pot at very bottom. I thought would be OK as from what I'd read clay pebbles naturally allow for a lot of oxygen. I don't know.

TBH I wasn't really completely happy with this set up even before problems started this run, even though was quite happy with results from previous runs. I am going to completely overhaul for next run.

I have actually already ordered a new ppm meter as I had a little feeling something was up with current one and I will order new PH meter to be on safe side. Although instinctively I doubt it's a problem with these. I kind of know I've screwed something up somewhere for theses problems to have arised....but as all obvious(that I can think of) parameters are quite well in control I can't work out what.

I took a couple pics with leds off earlier. Although things are still looking pretty bad, I think maybe the very newest growth looks greener and a little better. Perhaps the calmag I added 5 days is having some effect.
 

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MJCanada

MJCanada

Well-Known Member
Recalibrate your PH meter, and do a test on regular tap water. You should be able to look at your municipal water source's website to see what the range should be. This will tell you if your PH meter is somewhat reliable. PH swing could be a problem in your setup. I would also take some random samples of your res before/after touching it... and a random 1 or 2 throughout the day to make sure nothing funky is going on.

To me it looks like a multi-micro nutrient lockout (boron, zinc, maybe cal+mag, although calmag I've always found is an "all over" lightening first...), but the setup you are describing, the only thing that could be the problem is one of 2 things: too much/too little nutrients(as your nute line is good) OR bad PH...

Nothing else really fits...

I personally would continue vegging until you get a node or 2 of good solid green growth before you flip.

The grow should be salvageable, if you can figure out wtf is going on...
Good luck!
 
R

ralphboss

Member
MJCanada said:
Recalibrate your PH meter, and do a test on regular tap water. You should be able to look at your municipal water source's website to see what the range should be. This will tell you if your PH meter is somewhat reliable. PH swing could be a problem in your setup. I would also take some random samples of your res before/after touching it... and a random 1 or 2 throughout the day to make sure nothing funky is going on.

To me it looks like a multi-micro nutrient lockout (boron, zinc, maybe cal+mag, although calmag I've always found is an "all over" lightening first...), but the setup you are describing, the only thing that could be the problem is one of 2 things: too much/too little nutrients(as your nute line is good) OR bad PH...

Nothing else really fits...

I personally would continue vegging until you get a node or 2 of good solid green growth before you flip.

The grow should be salvageable, if you can figure out wtf is going on...
Good luck!
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Thanks very much for your input. I will see if I can look up the info from my water source, see if anything can be gleaned there. Gonna order a new PH meter from Amazon and maybe spend a little bit more than I did on my current one, and will try your other suggestions.

Thanks to everyone that's posted here, going to follow the advices and will report back in a week or so, hopefully things will have turned a corner by then.
 
70's natureboy

70's natureboy

Well-Known Member
I just use ph drops. Once things are dialed in I don't have to check it that often. Now that I can see them better I wonder if that is light bleaching? When I use Maegacrop I just use a tablespoon in 5 gal of tap water to get me around 6-700 ppm's.
 
MJCanada

MJCanada

Well-Known Member
The first pic doesn't look like light bleaching as there are green leaves overtop of heavily discoloured leaves.

If it was light bleach, doesn't it usually effect anything that is closest and in direct line of sight of the light source? So a shaded leaf would only be discoloured where the light hit it directly.

Not tryin to harp on the idea or anything, but wanted to share why I didn't think it was the lights.
 
R

ralphboss

Member
Today more new growth is through and it is definitely all a lot greener than a few days/week ago. There still appears to be some very small bits of yellowing on tips of some of the new growth(not all) but it looks like a big overall improvement, I think.

Before, all new growth was coming through very light green/yellow and the paleness was starting from the middle/stem part of the leaf. Now the growth is nice and dark green from the center of the leaves. I can only think it is the calmag working.

PH has not moved from yesterday, 5.85. Measured PPM with new meter and there is quite a big discrepancy with old meter. New meter is reading 1400ppm old one saying just over 900ppm!

So I'm also wondering if the problems are due to overfeeding, but as things seems to be improving I didn't want to make any changes now to the res. Am waiting on a new PH meter to see if anything is up with that too and just going to keep monitoring for a few more days, hopefully will keep moving in the right direction.
 
MJCanada

MJCanada

Well-Known Member
PPM meters come in 2 differents kinds.

Looks like you have one of each. The cheap ones dont say which one they are.
 
R

ralphboss

Member
MJCanada said:
PPM meters come in 2 differents kinds.

Looks like you have one of each. The cheap ones dont say which one they are.
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Ah OK...The new meter also has EC. IIRC EC was saying something like 2.9ish(today) , which I thought sounded very high! But as new growth on plants seemed to be better I thought best to leave everything alone for now. Also has temp too, which was saying 22c
 
R

ralphboss

Member
More growth through today all still coming nice and green. The tiny bits on some of new tips which I thought looked yellow, I possibly think may be nute burn. So at the risk of disturbing things, I decided to change out around a 3rd of res for just plain PHd water, this brought the PPM down to around 1100ppm on new meter, still quite high but a level I feel more comfortable with.

Water straight out of tap is 400ppm on new meter, so I think I'm fighting very poor quality water but don't have any other viable options.

Anyways, hoping after w/end things will have improved enough so I can think about finally flipping lights to 12/12.
 
R

ralphboss

Member
Quick update. Things definitely moving in right direction now. I defoliated some of the yellow leaves( so cheating a bit) But the difference from 4 or 5 days ago is really night and day. New growth is coming through looking much healthier.
Still not sure what the problem was but have learnt I need to be a lot more diligent with checking PPM moving forward. The new PPM meter is i believe the x500 scale and I've been keeping PPM steady between 1000-1100ppm. PPM is rising very slightly daily , so I've just been topping off with PHd water.

Pics below from today. Huge improvement I think from last pics 6 days ago.
 

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R

ralphboss

Member
Midnight Warrior said:
Found this chart. Check it out. Shows Excess/Deficiency for Primary, Secondary, and Trace Elements. Also shows nutrient Excess/Deficiency.
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Yes I've seen that chart and probably 10 similar (lol) when I was looking around everywhere to work out what the problem was.

I've also now found out that the PH meter I was using was measuring 0.5 under what it should do!
Got a new PH meter today(decent quality) calibrated it with buffer 7 and then tested my res. Showed 6.4 on new one and only 5.9 old.

So now I'm thinking could have been an iron deficiency. From the charts I looked at, Iron deficiency looked most like what my plants were suffering but most sources i read said iron def only really happens in hydro if ph is very high, so I had kind of ruled that out....but now I know my old PH meter was giving false low readings, wonder if that could have been it.

But in saying that, the plants were recovering strong before I found out about faulty PH meter today! LOL

God knows. There was Iron in the calmag supplement I bought though.

I'm just glad plants seem to be well on the mend now, looking better everydy and growing at a healthy rate. considering I had a faulty PH meter and PPM meter I guess it's no surprise I ran into problems. I won't be going cheap on these in the future.
 
B

Beachwalker

Well-Known Member
ralphboss said:
Today more new growth is through and it is definitely all a lot greener than a few days/week ago. There still appears to be some very small bits of yellowing on tips of some of the new growth(not all) but it looks like a big overall improvement, I think.

Before, all new growth was coming through very light green/yellow and the paleness was starting from the middle/stem part of the leaf. Now the growth is nice and dark green from the center of the leaves. I can only think it is the calmag working.

PH has not moved from yesterday, 5.85. Measured PPM with new meter and there is quite a big discrepancy with old meter. New meter is reading 1400ppm old one saying just over 900ppm!

So I'm also wondering if the problems are due to overfeeding, but as things seems to be improving I didn't want to make any changes now to the res. Am waiting on a new PH meter to see if anything is up with that too and just going to keep monitoring for a few more days, hopefully will keep moving in the right direction.
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I ran into the same problem with mega crop. Turned into pea-sized lumps right away, although it's possibly it could have got moistened by being sat on a damp counter? but then while stored properly it turned into even bigger lumps, so they said 'make a mother batch' so I did that

I felt like while I could measure PPM I didn't really know what was actually in there, and at what strength? (Eventually it hardened into a big lump, forget about it)

I've gone back to GH 3 part and now everything is almost back to normal, not here to hate, but I had the same symptoms you're describing when I switched to mc is all I'm saying, good luck

20180923_054544.jpg
 
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coreywebster

coreywebster

Well-Known Member
Older leaves are exposed for longer. Slow burn.
Your plant in the middle right under the most intense light is worse by far.
Its not iron def.

I would read the whole link I posted.
Specifically this bit
"If the lights are only slightly too close, maybe just an inch or a few cm, the yellowing from light burn may happen slowly over the course of days (or even weeks!) because leaves are dying early instead of immediately. Because of that, light burn may first appear on somewhat older leaves, which can be confusing and make it hard to diagnose."
 
R

ralphboss

Member
Beachwalker said:
I ran into the same problem with mega crop. Turned into lumps and then bigger lab so they said make a mother batch and all this crap forget about it.

I've gone back to GH 3 part and now everything is almost back to normal, not here to hate, but I had the same symptoms you're describing when I switched to mc is all I'm saying, good luck
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I used Megacrop on my last run and encountered no problems at all. I started to think maybe with this run the bag of MC had lost strength or something but I was really clutching at straws, and things have really turned around now and plants are looking way, way better and I have continued with MC all the while.

I'm certain my problems have nothing to do with my nutrient line. Just screw ups and not being diligent enough on my part, along with using cheap and not fit for purpose accessories (PH/PPm meters)

Thanks for input though.
 
R

ralphboss

Member
coreywebster said:
Older leaves are exposed for longer. Slow burn.
Your plant in the middle right under the most intense light is worse by far.
Its not iron def.

I would read the whole link I posted.
Specifically this bit
"If the lights are only slightly too close, maybe just an inch or a few cm, the yellowing from light burn may happen slowly over the course of days (or even weeks!) because leaves are dying early instead of immediately. Because of that, light burn may first appear on somewhat older leaves, which can be confusing and make it hard to diagnose."
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I will read it for reference. But I'm certain was not light burn. I really don't have lights very close to plants, I have had them a lot closer before in flower (when running out of head height) and never had any issues (same lights).

My problems started with new growth coming through yellow from the middle of leaves. Since things started to improve the new growth is now green which has pushed the yellow down. Although quite a lot of the yellow leaves have also turned green.
 
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