Led vs hps

Are leds comparable to hps and cmh nowadays? I know the main drawback is cost but when I was still plugged in it seemed most commercial grows were still using sodium bulbs and led commercial grows we're very niche.

Can someone give me a breakdown of the major cons of led. It seems the biggest thing is light penetration, thus yield suffers unless you are heavily lollipopped.
What are the market leaders in leds right now or are cobs outperforming anything you can buy ready made?

Also is density comparable to that of a hps light?
Sorry if this has been asked a million times, feel free to disregard I just could find hard facts in the search bar but I spose this subject is filled with confusing stats and alot of pseudoscience.

Thanks
 

GBAUTO

Well-Known Member
HID has been the gold standard for decades but led technology is making inroads with a few commercial operations. Using current tech leds can offer a significant efficiency bump but it's a long-term return on investment. If you can manage the thermal load from a HID rig, that will be the most cost effective when factoring start up costs and operating costs.
I use both cobs and light strips. The cobs penetrate just like a HID rig but can also suffer from hotspots like HID. Strips and QB's produce a photon blanket-run enough power through them and they penetrate just like HID.
 

growingforfun

Well-Known Member
Basically that^

LEDs are taking over but I dont think they are worth it yet. They are gaining by about 20% per on led advancement and also dropping in cost. I think 2020 will be a tipping point. If your building them yourself, its maybe worth getting into now. Just depends on your situation and specific variables.
 

Hugo Phurst

Well-Known Member
I have no LED experience, but I am presently replacing my MH & HPS with CMH. More light, less heat and power.
 

StareCase

Well-Known Member
Are leds comparable to hps and cmh nowadays? I know the main drawback is cost but when I was still plugged in it seemed most commercial grows were still using sodium bulbs and led commercial grows we're very niche.

Can someone give me a breakdown of the major cons of led. It seems the biggest thing is light penetration, thus yield suffers unless you are heavily lollipopped.
What are the market leaders in leds right now or are cobs outperforming anything you can buy ready made?

Also is density comparable to that of a hps light?
Sorry if this has been asked a million times, feel free to disregard I just could find hard facts in the search bar but I spose this subject is filled with confusing stats and alot of pseudoscience.

Thanks
Hopefully an actual LED grow can answer your question.

I have a grow using 2 Viparspectra 600W Reflector Full Spectrum LED's in a 2' x 4' x 6' grow tent. Cost for both - about $600 CDN.

Viparspectra are not the best in the business but they build a good quality and relatively inexpensive light for producing a healthy crop in a small footprint. These lights are rated for 75,000 to 100,000 hours use and since I flower with them I anticipate about 13 years. So in the long range picture, these lights are not expensive as time marches on.

The plant canopy is about 18" below the lights and I have good looking frosty buds about 10" down into the canopy. The lights shouldn't be much lower than 18" for the more powerful LED's.

Once you get below that 10", it's the tiny and larfy growth that I do lollipop in around weeks 4 and 5. Defoliation a little at a time during flower helps to increase penetration later in their lives.

I found that the biggest drawback - perhaps the word is "marketing ploy" - is the advertised footprint for good canopy coverage. These particular Viparspectra 600W models are 15" L x 13.5" W and will provide good 2' x 2' coverage - at best. Viparspectra claim this light can provide 2.5' x 2.5' coverage but I am not quite in agreement with that one. So if you have a 4' x 4' tent, you would need 4 of these particular units to produce good quality bud. For that same $1200, you might want to look at another manufacturer.

LED manufacturers claim an "equivalent wattage" to HPS/HID lighting but the true wall wattage is about 1/2 of the equivalency rating. The LED's I use now draw 280 wall watts each. With 2 of them, I am pulling 560 wall watts. If what I read about 3/4 g per wall watt for LED's is true, I hope to reap 420 g when dried and cured. (I could live with 420 g of good quality herb.)

LED's will still generate a little bit of heat and that heat will need to be ventilated out of your grow space, especially in the smaller ones. The cooling fans will cool the unit itself but not the ambient surroundings. Exhaust fans will need to pull that heat out. However, LED's are still significantly cooler that the HID lights.

Determine the size of your grow space and see if something along the lines of a Mars Hydro or Viparspectra LED will work for you. LED's can help you to grow stinky and sticky fruits.
 
Hopefully an actual LED grow can answer your question.

I have a grow using 2 Viparspectra 600W Reflector Full Spectrum LED's in a 2' x 4' x 6' grow tent. Cost for both - about $600 CDN.

Viparspectra are not the best in the business but they build a good quality and relatively inexpensive light for producing a healthy crop in a small footprint. These lights are rated for 75,000 to 100,000 hours use and since I flower with them I anticipate about 13 years. So in the long range picture, these lights are not expensive as time marches on.

The plant canopy is about 18" below the lights and I have good looking frosty buds about 10" down into the canopy. The lights shouldn't be much lower than 18" for the more powerful LED's.

Once you get below that 10", it's the tiny and larfy growth that I do lollipop in around weeks 4 and 5. Defoliation a little at a time during flower helps to increase penetration later in their lives.

I found that the biggest drawback - perhaps the word is "marketing ploy" - is the advertised footprint for good canopy coverage. These particular Viparspectra 600W models are 15" L x 13.5" W and will provide good 2' x 2' coverage - at best. Viparspectra claim this light can provide 2.5' x 2.5' coverage but I am not quite in agreement with that one. So if you have a 4' x 4' tent, you would need 4 of these particular units to produce good quality bud. For that same $1200, you might want to look at another manufacturer.

LED manufacturers claim an "equivalent wattage" to HPS/HID lighting but the true wall wattage is about 1/2 of the equivalency rating. The LED's I use now draw 280 wall watts each. With 2 of them, I am pulling 560 wall watts. If what I read about 3/4 g per wall watt for LED's is true, I hope to reap 420 g when dried and cured. (I could live with 420 g of good quality herb.)

LED's will still generate a little bit of heat and that heat will need to be ventilated out of your grow space, especially in the smaller ones. The cooling fans will cool the unit itself but not the ambient surroundings. Exhaust fans will need to pull that heat out. However, LED's are still significantly cooler that the HID lights.

Determine the size of your grow space and see if something along the lines of a Mars Hydro or Viparspectra LED will work for you. LED's can help you to grow stinky and sticky fruits.
Currently have 4 1000w de fixtures and 2 600w
Hopefully an actual LED grow can answer your question.

I have a grow using 2 Viparspectra 600W Reflector Full Spectrum LED's in a 2' x 4' x 6' grow tent. Cost for both - about $600 CDN.

Viparspectra are not the best in the business but they build a good quality and relatively inexpensive light for producing a healthy crop in a small footprint. These lights are rated for 75,000 to 100,000 hours use and since I flower with them I anticipate about 13 years. So in the long range picture, these lights are not expensive as time marches on.

The plant canopy is about 18" below the lights and I have good looking frosty buds about 10" down into the canopy. The lights shouldn't be much lower than 18" for the more powerful LED's.

Once you get below that 10", it's the tiny and larfy growth that I do lollipop in around weeks 4 and 5. Defoliation a little at a time during flower helps to increase penetration later in their lives.

I found that the biggest drawback - perhaps the word is "marketing ploy" - is the advertised footprint for good canopy coverage. These particular Viparspectra 600W models are 15" L x 13.5" W and will provide good 2' x 2' coverage - at best. Viparspectra claim this light can provide 2.5' x 2.5' coverage but I am not quite in agreement with that one. So if you have a 4' x 4' tent, you would need 4 of these particular units to produce good quality bud. For that same $1200, you might want to look at another manufacturer.

LED manufacturers claim an "equivalent wattage" to HPS/HID lighting but the true wall wattage is about 1/2 of the equivalency rating. The LED's I use now draw 280 wall watts each. With 2 of them, I am pulling 560 wall watts. If what I read about 3/4 g per wall watt for LED's is true, I hope to reap 420 g when dried and cured. (I could live with 420 g of good quality herb.)

LED's will still generate a little bit of heat and that heat will need to be ventilated out of your grow space, especially in the smaller ones. The cooling fans will cool the unit itself but not the ambient surroundings. Exhaust fans will need to pull that heat out. However, LED's are still significantly cooler that the HID lights.

Determine the size of your grow space and see if something along the lines of a Mars Hydro or Viparspectra LED will work for you. LED's can help you to grow stinky and sticky fruits.
Current have 4 1000w de hps fixtures and 2 600w. Run a perpetual in an iws f&d/dws hybrid system with co2 enrichment and harvest about 20 pounds every 10 weeks.

My main query is, will yield and quality be comparable with a top end led fixture of comparable wattage? Every variable will be the same I. E environment, nutrients, genetics.
 

shawnery

Well-Known Member
LEDs can be closer than 18" and I run mine as close as 10" but an average of 14". I only raise them that much to get better coverage. I've not used hps or mh or mch but I am using diy samsung strips which I highly recommend.

I like to go for a completely even foot print across the entire square footage. My penetration is about 50% depth and my lumens are between 30,000 and 40,000 across the entire canopy.

I'm not a fan of uneven lighting which is just about impossible not to have with a single light in the center of the room no matter the wattage.

I'm also a fan of self built bad boys.
 

Attachments

Vd22

Well-Known Member
LEDs can be closer than 18" and I run mine as close as 10" but an average of 14". I only raise them that much to get better coverage. I've not used hps or mh or mch but I am using diy samsung strips which I highly recommend.

I like to go for a completely even foot print across the entire square footage. My penetration is about 50% depth and my lumens are between 30,000 and 40,000 across the entire canopy.

I'm not a fan of uneven lighting which is just about impossible not to have with a single light in the center of the room no matter the wattage.

I'm also a fan of self built bad boys.
how much power per strip to run them @ 14 inch? i see double rows yea?
 

Vd22

Well-Known Member
Are leds comparable to hps and cmh nowadays? I know the main drawback is cost but when I was still plugged in it seemed most commercial grows were still using sodium bulbs and led commercial grows we're very niche.

Can someone give me a breakdown of the major cons of led. It seems the biggest thing is light penetration, thus yield suffers unless you are heavily lollipopped.
What are the market leaders in leds right now or are cobs outperforming anything you can buy ready made?

Also is density comparable to that of a hps light?
Sorry if this has been asked a million times, feel free to disregard I just could find hard facts in the search bar but I spose this subject is filled with confusing stats and alot of pseudoscience.

Thanks
if you dont want to deal with heat get led,
and rotating plants get led

i honestly dont know whats better, id say hps is, but i dont think its worth time where as i think led is worth time if that makes sense lol
 

shawnery

Well-Known Member
Total of 1640 watts at the wall.

They've been tested on another site, a very similar build, and were equal to a 500 or 600 watt hps in output. Not talking some crazy equality rating but actually with a par meter.
 

Xcoregamerskillz

Well-Known Member
LEDs can be closer than 18" and I run mine as close as 10" but an average of 14". I only raise them that much to get better coverage. I've not used hps or mh or mch but I am using diy samsung strips which I highly recommend.

I like to go for a completely even foot print across the entire square footage. My penetration is about 50% depth and my lumens are between 30,000 and 40,000 across the entire canopy.

I'm not a fan of uneven lighting which is just about impossible not to have with a single light in the center of the room no matter the wattage.

I'm also a fan of self built bad boys.
That's some kick-ass lighting! How much coverage is each one of those? How much did each one cost?
 

shawnery

Well-Known Member
20 x Samsung F564B 22" strips 500.00
4 x HLG-320h-48v 350.00
4 x junction boxes 10.00
1 x Pack of Wagos 51.00
1 x Thermal tape 14.00
1 x 18 gauge black copper 7.00
1 x 18 gauge red copper 7.00
4 x power cords 20.00
20 x 2" x 24" heatsink 150.00

You don't really need the heatsink but I like to over build it and underpower them. You can also get bridgelux light for noticeable cheaper.
 

shawnery

Well-Known Member
This is just for an example of what my lights are capable of, not to show off at all.

The first is day 10 and the second is day 13. The pistil production for 3 days is very nice. This is day 43 total from clones.
 

Attachments

shawnery

Well-Known Member
It completely covers a 5x8 but could arguably do a 5x10 which my tent is. But it covers the 5x8 perfectly with an even lumen rating from edge to edge.
 
Top