Lets talk mutants
- Thread starter naiveCon
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Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
But thats allright for the hoards of led users that do exactly the same....
Go f@#k yourself basically
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Its not polyploid, this has been discussed in many threads, not sure what you base this info on when it occurs on less than stella plants.
This is not ploiody in any form ive ever seen
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
king....king....such a waste of potential....such a disappointment.....so much wrong advice, that's so close to right advice....so much attitude from someone with no room for an attitude.....goodbye for a while, no more time to waste on you, just a warning to anyone taking your advice....DON'TBut thats allright for the hoards of led users that do exactly the same....
Go f@#k yourself basically
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
thank you sir, not trying to step on any toes
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
So we agree that true twins are a rare genetic expression just like in animals but less common?
That makes me even more confident that I, in fact, have a seed line with that characteristic bred into the line which I think is pretty damn cool.
That makes me even more confident that I, in fact, have a seed line with that characteristic bred into the line
which I think is pretty damn cool.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
i'm not sure it's a desirable trait. you say the smaller "twin" dies. it's probably getting starved out by it's more vigorous twin. that's wasted effort on the part of the plant, and will put it behind "schedule". i'd be interested to examine the next one that occurs. can they be separated and put into different pots, or do they share one main root mass, with two main stems?So we agree that true twins are a rare genetic expression just like in animals but less common?
That makes me even more confident that I, in fact, have a seed line with that characteristic bred into the line
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
They are two separate seedlings and root systems from one seed. They are two individual plants that absolutely could be separated if you wanted.
I'm also not suggesting it's some special trait that is "desirable" for a specific reason. Mostly just a cool genetic difference that isn't often seen.
I've only managed to keep one of them alive. It grew at the same speed as the other seedlings at the time, but did end up having amazing flowering growth which is why I ended up saving it, not the twin aspect.
It wasn't until the seedlings started showing multiple twins that I even realized what happened. In a matter of 2 years I went from never seeing a twin to encountering 4 all from the same genetic line.
I'm also not suggesting it's some special trait that is "desirable" for a specific reason. Mostly just a cool genetic difference that isn't often seen.
I've only managed to keep one of them alive. It grew at the same speed as the other seedlings at the time, but did end up having amazing flowering growth which is why I ended up saving it, not the twin aspect.
It wasn't until the seedlings started showing multiple twins that I even realized what happened. In a matter of 2 years I went from never seeing a twin to encountering 4 all from the same genetic line.
Roger A. Shrubber
Well-Known Member
try separating them when they're young, before the first up-potting. i'm guessing the one is dying because the the other is out competing it, out growing its root system and absorbing a lot more of the available nutes. if you can separate them, i don't see any reason the smaller one wouldn't catch up to and possibly surpass the one that is initially larger.
if they continue to die, the only thing i can figure is the "twin" is flawed to begin with, some kind of genetic anomaly that isn't getting the gene sequence quite right...it may not be able to photosynthesize well, or may not be able to produce some enzyme or protein that the larger twin has no problem with.
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Yeah I'll give seperation a try if or when I come across it again. I havn't ran any new seeds from that batch in a few years, I've been running clones.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
I tend to agree. It should be expressed in the whole plant. Not just a bud...Its not polyploid, this has been discussed in many threads, not sure what you base this info on when it occurs on less than stella plants.
This is not ploiody in any form ive ever seen
Still, stranger things have happened.
Kinda like triploidy can be a partial system problem in humans......Rules of science are broken by nature,,,,a lot.
flowerpower0118
Active Member
Over feeding a germinating or freshly germinated plant can cause leaf and stems to become irregularly shaped, especially on embryonic growth.Theres one fuck of a lot of difference between an actual mutant thats genetic and somthing you fucked up and isnt genetic but its fucking up the genetics.
Some should read up more on mutations before they use this word as it is not accurate to what you are describing.
Self topping, three leaves a node etc etc all stress not genetic, glad i could clear that up, marijuana actually has pretty mutant resistant genetics if ya ever bothered to look into this.
Theres a reason the plants looked the same for millions of years
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Ploidy has never been seen in marijuana and would be f'ing hard to prove. So many see mutations and say ploidy that after years it is clearly not. After suspecting ploidy then id prefer to see the extra chromosomes and not just assumption. Ploidy is easily googlable on wiki as is nutrient stress overwatering and a host of other stuff that will cause stress reactions and mutated growth.
Mj has very stable genetics, thats one genetic survival trait, we can change very little except diversity within those genetics. Peeps use the words weak and unstable to describe mjs genetics but thats so wrong its silly.
Hemp is different in a few things but its not mj so to be expected. When many species have evolved from ground dwelling leaves into towering trees and visa versa mj has stayed pretty much exactly the same overall.
Mutations that breed are thus very rare
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Ploidy has never been seen in marijuana and would be f'ing hard to prove. So many see mutations and say ploidy that after years it is clearly not. After suspecting ploidy then id prefer to see the extra chromosomes and not just assumption. Ploidy is easily googlable on wiki as is nutrient stress overwatering and a host of other stuff that will cause stress reactions and mutated growth.
Mj has very stable genetics, thats one genetic survival trait, we can change very little except diversity within those genetics. Peeps use the words weak and unstable to describe mjs genetics but thats so wrong its silly.
Hemp is different in a few things but its not mj so to be expected. When many species have evolved from ground dwelling leaves into towering trees and visa versa mj has stayed pretty much exactly the same overall.
Mutations that breed are thus very rare
Ploidy does happen in MJ. It is rare and very hard to breed. Basically put, you won't be successful. A well Known Spanish seed company tried very hard to. They could not sustain success at any rate of reproducing triploid offspring. Rumor has it somebody got poisoned too.... this was followed and posted on by the company at Gypsy's site, years ago.
There are a cpl of online claimers that say they can breed it. They say they will bring it to the market.
LOL, NONE of the claimers have ever done it yet.
Who would want to? Lower THC profiles and extended veg and bloom times..... Rather a lot to give up for some yield increase.
Now as for mutations carrying over in breeding.. Oh yeah it happens!
How about a genetic damage by insect? Russet mites can, and do cause a form of mutation by heavy infestation. This carry's over in breeding and most certainly by cloning.
These are not the only insects that can cause a mutation by genetic damage. Not to mention random mutations like whorled phyllotaxy, or variegated leaves. These can be passed by breeding also.
There is somebody on this site that has a rarer mutation pheno. This came from beans and the strain does NOT like indoor lighting. It shrivels up and looks just like a real bad Russet infestation. Take that shriveled up plant outdoors and she comes right back by developing normally and producing normally, but put it back under any artificial indoor lighting and she reverts back to the shriveled up sick looking plant.
This was passed by breeding and several folks have the same thing, in the same strain, from the same breeder.... If the mutation is able to pass by breeding, it will to some extent in a % of beans produced by that mutated parent plant.
Most mutations have a limiting factor in that they do not reproduce. A form of natural sterility to protect the plants genome base.
Not as rare as it would seem either....
Think Chaos theory.
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Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
Ha i didnt notice it was you, hope your well dide.
The crux is that if we could breed mutations and stuff we would have vastly different plants by now, mj wouldnt have stayed the sane in the wild the last few million years either.
But a ducksfoot plant and possibly one or two others that have managed to breed some traits.
I wish it would mutate - a stress mutation degrades the dna which is no good whatsoever, we need the other kind of mutants from evolution except mj hates evolution and stays the same pretty much
The crux is that if we could breed mutations and stuff we would have vastly different plants by now, mj wouldnt have stayed the sane in the wild the last few million years either.
But a ducksfoot plant and possibly one or two others that have managed to breed some traits.
I wish it would mutate - a stress mutation degrades the dna which is no good whatsoever, we need the other kind of mutants from evolution except mj hates evolution and stays the same pretty much
flowerpower0118
Active Member
What about the fabled, clone only, polypoid Pink Kush?Ploidy has never been seen in marijuana and would be f'ing hard to prove. So many see mutations and say ploidy that after years it is clearly not. After suspecting ploidy then id prefer to see the extra chromosomes and not just assumption. Ploidy is easily googlable on wiki as is nutrient stress overwatering and a host of other stuff that will cause stress reactions and mutated growth.
Mj has very stable genetics, thats one genetic survival trait, we can change very little except diversity within those genetics. Peeps use the words weak and unstable to describe mjs genetics but thats so wrong its silly.
Hemp is different in a few things but its not mj so to be expected. When many species have evolved from ground dwelling leaves into towering trees and visa versa mj has stayed pretty much exactly the same overall.
Mutations that breed are thus very rare
Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
I have zero respect for this side of mj or the industry -
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Billy Bud (William Harold Bradshaw) is a bull shitting ass hat.... At least he's a wasted mental case.
He found a niche in gullible wannabe's, buying his BS.
He says that Giants came from women using "Autumn Crocus" (Orchid, and the source of colchicine. the chemical used in botany to increase chromosomes) as a "labor pain reducer". This in-turn created human off spring with Tetraploidy.....Thing is? He comfortably forgets that trip or Tetra human offspring that actually survive (most are stillborn). Live only a week or two.
This hack is the guy who started out his adult life by trying to make synthetic cocaine. Can be done but, what do you really change by making a synthetic that is one or two molecules off the original one?
Actually the "infamous" Pink Kush is reported to be tetraploid
So he states that pre 98 Bubba is tetraploid too..
Thing is only him and some other poly, "smoke and mirrors" guy says so..
The only way to prove it is? Expensive electron microscope time...
Most of this garbage was debunked back in 2014
The use of colchicine makes for some pretty fucked up plants. If treating seeds.....good fucking luck getting one to pop, much less survive.
He makes assumptions, not facts from actual lab or quality breeding practice.... You look at some of the people playing with tetra and poly and you have to ask yourself. "How do these idiots still stay in business?" Tetraploid breeder on instgram states he sells tetra and trip beans..
Look at his pictures closely......Those he calls triploid are simply whorled phyllotaxy !!! This has been misdiagnosed that same way, before that idiot came along..
BTW tetraploidy is another thing plants can do that humans can't. In fact, rye grass has a very broadly used tetraploid strain. It is more digestible by cows. So much so, that it's widely used on dairy and penned beef cattle..
As for Triploidy? yup, it exist's in the plant world. In fact you eat trips every time you eat seedless grapes, seedless watermelon, Banana's, and other things.. Triploid plants are sterile! They can not produce offspring. At least as a rule. Three sets of chromosomes make it very unlikely for meiosis to successfully produce spores and gametophytes.
From everyone I have known to have had an actual Trip plant. They grew stupid slow and were less potent then other plants of the same strain not expressing any polyploidy.
Also contrary to his claims.. These plants did not grow taller or fuller then non poly sisters...
WARNING!!!! to the membership
Don't play with colchicine to attempt to create polyploid plants! This stuff is highly poisonous and it is easy to make a simple mistake that send you to a hospital....
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Kingrow1
Well-Known Member
I remember some trying the colchicine excess to get mutants or ploidy ages back.
Funny you mention it
Funny you mention it
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
I have zero respect for this side of mj or the industry -
LOL, read my post above!
Polyploidy is generally considered sterile.... Cloning it is even harder then normal.....something like less then a 15% survival rate....