Leaf issues with pictures. My most problematic grow.

[iruleyou1]

hydroguard is fine to use

flourilisious is also fine but personally id not use it only becuase i dont like the way it creates muck in the reservior

please do yourself a favor and dont use that kool bloom powder...

the liquid kool bloom can be useful but you realy dont need it

The nutrient schedule makes sense and I noticed my basement smells more and res looks worst since using floralicious. Do any of my nutes contain silica?

holding a steady PH of 5.8 is not the best IMO. It should be allowed to move up and down a little.

If you view these charts at a steady 5.8 your plant may have issues with calcium. Seems like some plants are fine and some have a harder time. I'm afraid to run DWC with different strains in the same tank for this reason.

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/ph-and-nutrient-uptake-charts.114733/

You might be onto something with this. My res doesn't vary much after the first 24 hours which usually goes from 5.4 to 5.8. Not sure why the first day always has about a .4 change. This grow I haven't hit 6 much at all like in the past when I had to use ph down more. Why do they tell you to aim for 5.8 when Calcium and Magnesium aren't taken up much in this range. This seems to be the most common deficiency. I guess thats why we have to add more since it is taken up slower.

I wonder if dissolved CO2 is higher in my water since the res was cold bringing my buffered ph down more. My res wants to stabilize at 5.8 when over the summer it was more like 6.1.

 

[5BY5LEC]

The nutrient schedule makes sense and I noticed my basement smells more and res looks worst since using floralicious. Do any of my nutes contain silica?



You might be onto something with this. My res doesn't vary much after the first 24 hours which usually goes from 5.4 to 5.8. Not sure why the first day always has about a .4 change. This grow I haven't hit 6 much at all like in the past when I had to use ph down more. Why do they tell you to aim for 5.8 when Calcium and Magnesium aren't taken up much in this range. This seems to be the most common deficiency. I guess thats why we have to add more since it is taken up slower.

I wonder if dissolved CO2 is higher in my water since the res was cold bringing my buffered ph down more. My res wants to stabilize at 5.8 when over the summer it was more like 6.1.

Because your PH takes time to adjust.
Floralicious stinks up your water because its organic. It has seaweed! Don't put organic stuff in your water.
You are looking too hard at this I am telling you. Just run something simple from now on. These problems are things you have to figure you on your own for the most part.
Unless your running armor si or something, no your nutes have no silica.

 

[im4satori]

no your currently not using silica

but its a common mistake

manage your reservior by keeping a daily log and use these rules

ph goes up and EC/PPM goes down = raise EC (if you see deficiency)
ph goes down and or EC/ppm goes up = lower EC (your either over feeding or you have root disease)

ideally your ph will drift upward slowly and your ec/ppm drop slowly thru a week

but much of that is dependent on your reservior size vs plant counts
if smaller resevior will show the changes faster and a large reservior show them slower

example:
a proplerly sized reservior and a balanced nutrient ratio and in a perfect world
youd set your ph at 5.4 on sunday and by saturday it would be 6.4.. dump and change!
your EC might start at 1.4 on sunday and finish at 1.2 on saturday

dont chase your ph with daily adjustments..let it swing within range
if its swinging too fast your either under feeding or your reservior is to small

if it dont rise at all or it drops, your over feeding

 

[Datsun 260Z]

 

[iruleyou1]

no your currently not using silica

but its a common mistake

manage your reservior by keeping a daily log and use these rules

ph goes up and EC/PPM goes down = raise EC (if you see deficiency)
ph goes down and or EC/ppm goes up = lower EC (your either over feeding or you have root disease)

ideally your ph will drift upward slowly and your ec/ppm drop slowly thru a week

but much of that is dependent on your reservior size vs plant counts
if smaller resevior will show the changes faster and a large reservior show them slower

example:
a proplerly sized reservior and a balanced nutrient ratio and in a perfect world
youd set your ph at 5.4 on sunday and by saturday it would be 6.4.. dump and change!
your EC might start at 1.4 on sunday and finish at 1.2 on saturday

dont chase your ph with daily adjustments..let it swing within range
if its swinging too fast your either under feeding or your reservior is to small

if it dont rise at all or it drops, your over feeding

Thanks I have always followed these rules and my water level is falling but not as fast as the summer. Temps were too high then while EC and PH are pretty stable. This is why I thought I was on the money.

 

[iruleyou1]

View attachment 4257007

Best chart I have seen for this. Thanks.

 

[Failmore]

The nutrient schedule makes sense and I noticed my basement smells more and res looks worst since using floralicious. Do any of my nutes contain silica?



You might be onto something with this. My res doesn't vary much after the first 24 hours which usually goes from 5.4 to 5.8. Not sure why the first day always has about a .4 change. This grow I haven't hit 6 much at all like in the past when I had to use ph down more. Why do they tell you to aim for 5.8 when Calcium and Magnesium aren't taken up much in this range. This seems to be the most common deficiency. I guess thats why we have to add more since it is taken up slower.

I wonder if dissolved CO2 is higher in my water since the res was cold bringing my buffered ph down more. My res wants to stabilize at 5.8 when over the summer it was more like 6.1.

Yeah i also read that it should be 5.8 and have seen people say to keep it at 5.8. But i have also heard and read to let if fluctuate. Looking at those charts I let mine go up and down. It is never the same, i'm kinda what ever about it as long as it is between 5.8 and 6.5

 

[shawnery]

People will argue this back and forth but in terms of ion exchange if your system is working right you ph should go up.

That has become a personal opinion so how I allow this to continue is that if I ever see a stability or drop in my ph I lower my ppm until I see my ph rise again.

Ph rising is a natural reaction to the plant feeding on the nutrients. Had a great talk about this with my science buddy. It's not a hydro theory though its a basix function. Not sure if it appli3s but the way he described it made total sense.

 

[Beachwalker]

I'm running the general hydroponics flora using this schedule https://www.growweedeasy.com/general-hydroponics-flora-trio-guide. I follow their recirculating schedule to the T & not the general hydroponics one at the bottom of the page. MY PPMs have been stable at 750 for past 3 days since res change with the water level dropping. My PH is pretty stable as well. PH usually raises first day 5.4 and stabilizes around 5.8 so I don't PH up since that always caused it to go too high. I will PH down if the starting PH is too high as when my veg nutes are weaker.

I do a full res change every 7 days & I flood 3 times a day once 30 minutes after lights on and once 30 - hour before lights out.

I add calimagic as I am transferring water from from my 55 gal ro storage barrel. Once the water level is full I add the Micro. I continue adding nutes with a re-circulation pump on & air stones.

I shut the re-circulation pump off the next morning to not heat the water up too much. This is a pump I leave in the bottom of the barrel with a length of tube on it that I connect with a coupler for draining out the door.


Nutes added this week from my notes for 53 gallons of water. I add them in the order below always making sure to add Calimagic first and then Micro. I don't think the rest matter as much based on my reading but this is the order I add them in with a few minutes between. When I use Flora Grow it goes between Micro and Bloom.

Flora Trio
Flower Week 6
calimagic 128ml
Micro 256ml
Bloom 384ml
kool bloom powder = ¼ cup plus 1 tsp or 13 tsp
floralicious 53ml
Hydroguard 106ml

Note: I use cool bloom liquid 106ml or 2ml a gallon weeks 2 - 5 instead of powder. The rest of my ratios are based on the URL above.

I can't really check the current roots because they are in a scrog net now but I never had root problems before in this system after 5 grows. The roots were bright white after transferring from my veg tent in the same system. I use smart ports in my ebb and flow bucket system so I can move them into the flower tent easy.

So I'm not a hydro grower but I was for a long time, and when I saw your plants my first thought was pH issue. Then I read what you said above, 5.4 sounds too low, I always maintained a range of 5.8 - 6.00 but again I'm not a hydro grower now, so that's just my two cents, good luck!

 

[shawnery]

Took me a while but here's the pudding!

Root Exudates and Microbial Relationships
Root systems are able to change the environment directly surrounding them by secreting a wide range of organic compounds, known as root exudates and mucilage, and releasing ions that influence pH. As positive ions (cations Ca2+, K+, Mg2+, etc.) are removed from the nutrient solution, hydrogen ions (H+) are released from the root system, equalizing the ratio of anions to cations in the root zone and thereby lowering the pH of the solution. When crops begin an active growth phase, anions (NO3, etc.) are taken up and increase the pH through the release of hydroxyl ions (OH-) into the solution.

 

[iruleyou1]

So I'm not a hydro grower but I was for a long time, and when I saw your plants my first thought was pH issue. Then I read what you said above, 5.4 sounds too low, I always maintained a range of 5.8 - 6.00 but again I'm not a hydro grower now, so that's just my two cents, good luck!

Yeah 5.4 is too low. That is what it is at when I just add nutrients after water nutrient change. After it cycles once or twice it goes to ~5.8 and holds there for the week. I found if I use ph up at the time of swap it goes up too high the next day and then I am using ph down or it comes back down over the coarse of the week on it's own.

Yeah i also read that it should be 5.8 and have seen people say to keep it at 5.8. But i have also heard and read to let if fluctuate. Looking at those charts I let mine go up and down. It is never the same, i'm kinda what ever about it as long as it is between 5.8 and 6.5

I guess since my solution is 5.8 stable I didn't think I would want to try and make it slightly unstable however I am starting to lean this way now. This is the most stable my ph has ever been.

My first few grows I ran the cheapo jacks 3-2-1 without the epsom salt. Really cheap to run and it works for sure however my ph was all over the place. The general hydroponics flora series is definitely more PH stable.

My last grow was one ounce short of 3lb in my 5x5 tent using cob leds running the same stuff I am this time (first time using GH flora). I was happy with the results since I blew the 1 gram per watt benchmark out of the water. Who knows I may still get a good yield this time too but things are definitely going slower. I think the temperature may be playing a big part as my res was 51 degrees. After adding a res heater yesterday my PH is now 5.9 and my plants drank a little more too more lik what I am used to. The the fact my ph never went above 5.8 and the lower nutrient intake from drinking less was probably my biggest issue. The tent is also colder too being about 70 degrees lights on.

I just ordered a 700 watt oil heater and a cycle timer for my fans. I'm going to use the timer to only turn on fans for a few minutes and keep them off or I will just blow all the heat out. I have to now look into how often I need a full air change in the tent. The tent is in the unheated basement and if I run the fan's non stop the heater doesn't do anything. I learned this last year.

My plants definitely look stunted this grow and cold can do that for sure. Drink less, stunt plant and more stable PH causing deficiencies I didn't have in the past. My first grow was a winter grow and now that I remember went this way as well. I blamed it on the 5 gallon dwc buckets and ph being all over the place due to the small volume of water and having to fill each bucket every day.. I have only been doing this a year with this being my 5th grow.

 

[shawnery]

Surprised. I would think most people would be moving from GH to jacks pro. Why would you want to move to overly priced liquid nutes when it's much harder to control your individual numbers with it?

Your better off seeing what your ph is doi g because it tells you so much. I moved from AN ph perfect to Masterblend/calnit/epsom and am much happier with price and control.

 

[Old Thcool]

I'm running the general hydroponics flora using this schedule https://www.growweedeasy.com/general-hydroponics-flora-trio-guide. I follow their recirculating schedule to the T & not the general hydroponics one at the bottom of the page. MY PPMs have been stable at 750 for past 3 days since res change with the water level dropping. My PH is pretty stable as well. PH usually raises first day 5.4 and stabilizes around 5.8 so I don't PH up since that always caused it to go too high. I will PH down if the starting PH is too high as when my veg nutes are weaker.

I do a full res change every 7 days & I flood 3 times a day once 30 minutes after lights on and once 30 - hour before lights out.

I add calimagic as I am transferring water from from my 55 gal ro storage barrel. Once the water level is full I add the Micro. I continue adding nutes with a re-circulation pump on & air stones.

I shut the re-circulation pump off the next morning to not heat the water up too much. This is a pump I leave in the bottom of the barrel with a length of tube on it that I connect with a coupler for draining out the door.


Nutes added this week from my notes for 53 gallons of water. I add them in the order below always making sure to add Calimagic first and then Micro. I don't think the rest matter as much based on my reading but this is the order I add them in with a few minutes between. When I use Flora Grow it goes between Micro and Bloom.

Flora Trio
Flower Week 6
calimagic 128ml
Micro 256ml
Bloom 384ml
kool bloom powder = ¼ cup plus 1 tsp or 13 tsp
floralicious 53ml
Hydroguard 106ml

Note: I use cool bloom liquid 106ml or 2ml a gallon weeks 2 - 5 instead of powder. The rest of my ratios are based on the URL above.

I can't really check the current roots because they are in a scrog net now but I never had root problems before in this system after 5 grows. The roots were bright white after transferring from my veg tent in the same system. I use smart ports in my ebb and flow bucket system so I can move them into the flower tent easy.

Sounds like you know what you are doing but, a couple guys and yourself are possibly not speaking the same language when it comes to nutrient quantity? Would I be giving enough information if I said 700 ppm? If you accidentally used the wrong conversion factor you could be quite off on your mixing. But you sound like you have that under control. I just ask myself because I am learning by reading these posts what does he mean by 700 ppm? If he said 1.2 EC that would make sense. But without the conversion factor 700 is not very helpful as it’s not complete. My pen has 3 different factors so I find that confusing I just stick to EC.

 

[iruleyou1]

Surprised. I would think most people would be moving from GH to jacks pro. Why would you want to move to overly priced liquid nutes when it's much harder to control your individual numbers with it?

Your better off seeing what your ph is doi g because it tells you so much. I moved from AN ph perfect to Masterbleiond/calnit/epsom and am much happier with price and control.

That's a good question. After 2 runs on the same clones and not changing other factors besides time of year I wanted to see if another brand would give me better results. Yes Jacks is cheaper and I still have bags of the shit I can use and may go back eventually. GH isn't super expensive when you are talking 3lb. I'm sure it cost me under $50 for the run which is still far less than the other crazy crap I have seen. You never know unless you try.

One thing I hated about jacks was mixing by ppm/ec. I eventually got an accurate scale and started mixing by weight. Since I always use the same volume water I could go by weight. I calculated the weights of the crystals for different ppms. I still have my notes.

The reason I hated mixing by ppms so much is it takes a while for jacks to fully dissolve in water. It takes freaking forever to add little by little until you hit your mark. You have to wait at least 15m before adding more. Many times I would come back 30 minutes later to see I overshot my target because the crap at the bottom of the res finally dissolved all the way. After a ton of trial and error I learned the exact weights I needed. I could hit my target within 20ppm every time. One more reason I tried GH flora was Jacks Classic uses the same formula for veg and bloom. I always found my plants to be very leafy compared to other people. I wanted to see if this had anything to do with it. Every other nutrient line out there changes up veg and flower.

GH is very easy to take a measuring cup and toss in and get a close enough ratio. With my air stones and re-circulation pump on you can get a good reading in a minute if you wanted to check readings to add more. I hate to say it but I would pay $50 for that in my time over the coarse of 3.5 months. I would say for a complete beginner just going GH flora 3 part is easier because you don't have to mess with meters.

Jacks definitely works though. One local grow shop basically cut me down when I said I was using that and tried to make me feel like an idiot by saying that stuff is for tomatoes and to call them and ask if it is for weed. I responded by saying call many of the nutrient lines you are selling and they won't claim it works on weed and he got a pissed off look on his face. He was trying to sell me a line house and garden that included a few small bottles that cost $100 each and would last me a run. I think it came to like $400 a run for the base nutes and the other over priced bottles. Honestly though if it created a much better quality or quantity it is probably worth it.

Sounds like you know what you are doing but, a couple guys and yourself are possibly not speaking the same language when it comes to nutrient quantity? Would I be giving enough information if I said 700 ppm? If you accidentally used the wrong conversion factor you could be quite off on your mixing. But you sound like you have that under control. I just ask myself because I am learning by reading these posts what does he mean by 700 ppm? If he said 1.2 EC that would make sense. But without the conversion factor 700 is not very helpful as it’s not complete. My pen has 3 different factors so I find that confusing I just stick to EC.

I think its the ppm500 scale which would be 1.2ec for 600pmm. I have 1 cheap ph and 1 cheap ec meter and a blu-labs combo meter that does temp,ec, and ppm. I use both at times to make sure I am calibrated. I bought the blu-labs meter this grow which wasn't cheap because I was wondering if my ph was wrong since I was having issues. I came to find out my crappy Chinese $20 ph pen was working just fine. It was measuring within .05 of the blu-labs.

 

[Failmore]

The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content of a solution and is also referred to as TDS - total dissolved solids (http://www.gyostuff.com/What_PPM_Scale_To_Use.html)

I think the meters or at least it seems when i look are all TDS EC. So that would be 500 scale. I think you can probably assume unless otherwise stated that it is 500 scale TDS when ppm is used. From now on i will say TDS, i think that makes it more clear.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't see anything that is not TDS on amazon.

 

[iruleyou1]

The ppm 500 is based on measuring the NaCl or sodium chloride content of a solution and is also referred to as TDS - total dissolved solids (http://www.gyostuff.com/What_PPM_Scale_To_Use.html)

I think the meters or at least it seems when i look are all TDS EC. So that would be 500 scale. I think you can probably assume unless otherwise stated that it is 500 scale TDS when ppm is used. From now on i will say TDS, i think that makes it more clear.

Correct me if i'm wrong, but i don't see anything that is not TDS on amazon.

I always assume the tds scale meters. The cheap amazon ones that do EC and PPM are usually the 500 scale. A cheap TDS meter works just fine. It's the PH meters you need to watch out for. One issue I find with the cheap PH meters is the calibration points are 4 and 6.86 or something when most people just sell the 7 buffer solution. You can get the 6.86 powder but that adds room for error in your mixing. Using 7ph solution for calibrating works just expect your readings to be off a tiny bit. Probably why my cheap pen and blu-labs are off by the .05.

 

[im4satori]

Yeah 5.4 is too low. That is what it is at when I just add nutrients after water nutrient change. After it cycles once or twice it goes to ~5.8 and holds there for the week. I found if I use ph up at the time of swap it goes up too high the next day and then I am using ph down or it comes back down over the coarse of the week on it's own.



I guess since my solution is 5.8 stable I didn't think I would want to try and make it slightly unstable however I am starting to lean this way now. This is the most stable my ph has ever been.

My first few grows I ran the cheapo jacks 3-2-1 without the epsom salt. Really cheap to run and it works for sure however my ph was all over the place. The general hydroponics flora series is definitely more PH stable.

My last grow was one ounce short of 3lb in my 5x5 tent using cob leds running the same stuff I am this time (first time using GH flora). I was happy with the results since I blew the 1 gram per watt benchmark out of the water. Who knows I may still get a good yield this time too but things are definitely going slower. I think the temperature may be playing a big part as my res was 51 degrees. After adding a res heater yesterday my PH is now 5.9 and my plants drank a little more too more lik what I am used to. The the fact my ph never went above 5.8 and the lower nutrient intake from drinking less was probably my biggest issue. The tent is also colder too being about 70 degrees lights on.

I just ordered a 700 watt oil heater and a cycle timer for my fans. I'm going to use the timer to only turn on fans for a few minutes and keep them off or I will just blow all the heat out. I have to now look into how often I need a full air change in the tent. The tent is in the unheated basement and if I run the fan's non stop the heater doesn't do anything. I learned this last year.

My plants definitely look stunted this grow and cold can do that for sure. Drink less, stunt plant and more stable PH causing deficiencies I didn't have in the past. My first grow was a winter grow and now that I remember went this way as well. I blamed it on the 5 gallon dwc buckets and ph being all over the place due to the small volume of water and having to fill each bucket every day.. I have only been doing this a year with this being my 5th grow.

whatever was going on with your ph wasnt related to the jacks 321

theres no reason GH would or should be more stable in ph thab jacks
if you look at the active ingredient on the bottles of GH and compare it to jacks 321 youll find theyre made from the same exact reagents, the only real difference (other than ratio) is one has water and one is dry

as far as ph
anything between 5.5 and 6.5 is in range for hydro
in a recirculating resevior i will often start my ph at 5.4 knowing itll be slighlty higher as soon as it passes thru the medium one time

i tuypically start at 5.4 ish and adjyust again at 6.3 ish to stay in range
ive run my ph as low as 5.3 and never seen any issues what so ever... at 5.3 the N is slightly more available than at 6.3 but the difference is negotiable

every time you ph adjust your adding Phosphorus for phosphoric acid (hydro store)or sulfur for sulfuric acid (auto parts store)... if your ph is in range dont adjust it just leave it until its close to out of range and stop adding the extra P

if your ph is 6.0 and your bothering to lower it to 5.8... um your just fucking with shit for no reason
there is a benefit to the ph swing or full spectrum of ph feeds over keeping a straight and steady ph

 

[rob333]

I am running a EBB and Flow bucket system with hydroton fed by the same 55 Gallon reservoir so all plants receive the same nutrients. Plants and mid week 6 of flower. I will be giving them one more res change of nutes and then flushing up to 2 weeks as needed.

This grow has by far been the most problematic. I have really good calibrated blu-labs meters PH around 5.8 and have been taking readings and using the same ratios of nutes as last grow. The only thing different is different strains and time of year being cooler. I know strains matter and that's where I think the problem is. My new stuff probably need different nutrients.

I am growing 2 Royal Queen Seeds Green Gelato & 2 Royal Queen Seeds Purple Queen (purple kush).

I would like to note the symptoms in pictures 2 and 3 have plagued me the entire grow. I originally thought it was a cal mag issue. I run 4ml of general Hydroponics Cali-Mag in Veg & 2ml in flower since I use RO water. I actually ran 6ml week 3 of veg to see if it resolved the issue.

The first picture now looks like a phosphorus deficiency to me and being week 6 of flower the plants just started putting on weight fast.

What do you all think? I look at the deficiency charts and they all look the same to me

This plant is one of the Green Gelato plants and up until last week was by far my best plant and had hardly any bad symptoms. Now it looks the worst in just days. I was thinking as flowering kicked into overdrive I have a phosphorous deficiency.
View attachment 4256374
This was the weaker Green Gelato Plant and now looks like the better one. Pissed I don't have clones of this one now. You can see the same speckling on the leaves which lead me to thinking cal-mag issues entire grow. View attachment 4256375
Plant in back. This is my stronger Purple Queen (Purple Kush) and it has the same symptoms as Picture 2 I would like to note I saw this in veg and not just in flower.
View attachment 4256376

whats your ppm ?ec

 

[iruleyou1]

whatever was going on with your ph wasnt related to the jacks 321

theres no reason GH would or should be more stable in ph thab jacks
if you look at the active ingredient on the bottles of GH and compare it to jacks 321 youll find theyre made from the same exact reagents, the only real difference (other than ratio) is one has water and one is dry

as far as ph
anything between 5.5 and 6.5 is in range for hydro
in a recirculating resevior i will often start my ph at 5.4 knowing itll be slighlty higher as soon as it passes thru the medium one time

i tuypically start at 5.4 ish and adjyust again at 6.3 ish to stay in range
ive run my ph as low as 5.3 and never seen any issues what so ever... at 5.3 the N is slightly more available than at 6.3 but the difference is negotiable

every time you ph adjust your adding Phosphorus for phosphoric acid (hydro store)or sulfur for sulfuric acid (auto parts store)... if your ph is in range dont adjust it just leave it until its close to out of range and stop adding the extra P

if your ph is 6.0 and your bothering to lower it to 5.8... um your just fucking with shit for no reason
there is a benefit to the ph swing or full spectrum of ph feeds over keeping a straight and steady ph

I think it may just be the GH likes to level out closer to 5.8 and Jacks would start to stabilize for me around 6.3.

 

[shawnery]

I think it may just be the GH likes to level out closer to 5.8 and Jacks would start to stabilize for me around 6.3.

The point is that there is no scientific reason for your experience with ph swings to be dependent on which of thwse two you use.