5 x 5 light set up

[Frank Cannon]

Hey Cob, yeah I know voltage is low but for an extra 20bucks I prefer to keep everything earthed.

The cheaper unit is basically a 2 speed controller i.e. set odour min speed, when it goes over your setpoint it ramps upto 100%. The sensor is another 20 bucks. I need to do a bit of digging re noise/ high freq whining.

2nd option is a bit more smancy as it will actually regulate fan speed like a VF drive does, also ramps up periodically during night to clear humidity, noise is not an issue.
Its a pity its for 2 fans as I only run exhaust and this obviously adds to the cost....

I'll let you know what I decide but reckon for winter these would be good with LEDs to keep temps up.

This greeted me last night, colas aren't massive but lots off them. Didn't get as much stretch as I would have liked and wonder if I topped a bit too much - proof will be in the pudding when I pull.


There is alot to be said about individual pots (so I could have elevated) as 2 clones were real slow starters in the corners. Of course they are not getting enough light now.... learning and living

 

[hybridway2]

No idea. I was forced to use my desk lamp one time as I had no room in my veg tent for my cloning box, but soon discovered it cloned really well - sometimes in as little as 7 days, but always within 14 days. I've used it ever since.

It's a warm white, too - 2700K - so I'm guessing the clones don't mind a bit of red shift, either. Advertised 1400 lumens at 2700K - perhaps you could make an educated guess at PPFD? The light is under a reflector, and I run the bulb right on top of the box.

Read through the thread. These guys r giving u solid advice. Prawn usually does. He Helped me save a grow last yr.
I too am happy with my 14w led bulb for cloning. I use 2 over the 32 site Sleezy-Cloner in 35k. Yup, the lower k temps promote root growth in clones & seedlings.
I suspected this would happen when I first found out I was getting the 96's. That is that I am NOT having the usual difficulties I'm used to having under pure white LEDs. I know some of you folks have the necessary changes dialed in but I do not & am still having issues with yellowing leaves & sometimes much worse with certain strains under all white LED sources.
Mine are the prefabs from the comp. They draw 330w, each bar of 2. So 660w, x4,96's over a 5x5. There's some stray HPS on 1 side so I added a 100w Horizon strip light in 24k to the other side recently to sort've match it.
BTW. Strips will give you the most for your watt in veg. Allowed me to replace the 8 bulb, 4' T-5's using only 100w of 6k strips surprisingly enough.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to add a 4' Hortri PowerVeg Bulb here n there just to broaden the spectrum & toughen up the plants. They're a safe, easy way to add some low amounts of UV w/o worrying about anything.
Plants are a little crammed together for pics but are set to 5x5.

4, 96's over a 5x5 is pushing it but will work if theres cross lighting or shiny tent walls. 660w fir 4 of them will do a 4x4 nicely.
Running a x4 Board QB (90cri white) too on the other side. Was doing pretty well there then one day she's getting pale fast. Upping the base nutes a little gives tip burn & worse on some, 3-5ml/g Cal-Mag ain't helping much either. Nor has the separate Mag. Will be trying some BatGuano Tee stuff I use in veg hoping some poo N might help tonight. But not on all. Just one plant incase it goes sideways.
Hope this helps! GoodLuck!

 

[Frank Cannon]

Yip, there is a ton of good info here on a wide variety of subjects which I have deliberately pushed the thread direction on so I can come back to refer to later on.
I'm running 6 x QB96s in a 4 1/2 x 4 1/2 (not 5) using Canna on medium feed schedule with calmag and silicon. Started PK 1/3 strength at week 3 and bumped up to full strength at week 5. No signs of nut burn/ deficiency. Once the Canna runs out I'm gonna try Prawns idea on chemies.
FC

 

[Prawn Connery]

Hey Cob, yeah I know voltage is low but for an extra 20bucks I prefer to keep everything earthed.

The cheaper unit is basically a 2 speed controller i.e. set odour min speed, when it goes over your setpoint it ramps upto 100%. The sensor is another 20 bucks. I need to do a bit of digging re noise/ high freq whining.

2nd option is a bit more smancy as it will actually regulate fan speed like a VF drive does, also ramps up periodically during night to clear humidity, noise is not an issue.
Its a pity its for 2 fans as I only run exhaust and this obviously adds to the cost....

I'll let you know what I decide but reckon for winter these would be good with LEDs to keep temps up.

This greeted me last night, colas aren't massive but lots off them. Didn't get as much stretch as I would have liked and wonder if I topped a bit too much - proof will be in the pudding when I pull.
View attachment 4264511

There is alot to be said about individual pots (so I could have elevated) as 2 clones were real slow starters in the corners. Of course they are not getting enough light now.... learning and living

You won't get as much stretch under LEDs as you will HPS, so that will be your first lesson learned

Also, there will be a lot more light - and a much more even spread of it - coming from those six QB96s compared to your old 600W HPS. You may find your plants finish a little early this round, too, from the extra red.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Read through the thread. These guys r giving u solid advice. Prawn usually does. He Helped me save a grow last yr.
I too am happy with my 14w led bulb for cloning. I use 2 over the 32 site Sleezy-Cloner in 35k. Yup, the lower k temps promote root growth in clones & seedlings.
I suspected this would happen when I first found out I was getting the 96's. That is that I am NOT having the usual difficulties I'm used to having under pure white LEDs. I know some of you folks have the necessary changes dialed in but I do not & am still having issues with yellowing leaves & sometimes much worse with certain strains under all white LED sources.
Mine are the prefabs from the comp. They draw 330w, each bar of 2. So 660w, x4,96's over a 5x5. There's some stray HPS on 1 side so I added a 100w Horizon strip light in 24k to the other side recently to sort've match it.
BTW. Strips will give you the most for your watt in veg. Allowed me to replace the 8 bulb, 4' T-5's using only 100w of 6k strips surprisingly enough.
Wouldn't be a bad idea to add a 4' Hortri PowerVeg Bulb here n there just to broaden the spectrum & toughen up the plants. They're a safe, easy way to add some low amounts of UV w/o worrying about anything.
Plants are a little crammed together for pics but are set to 5x5.
View attachment 4264840 View attachment 4264842 View attachment 4264843 View attachment 4264845
4, 96's over a 5x5 is pushing it but will work if theres cross lighting or shiny tent walls. 660w fir 4 of them will do a 4x4 nicely.
Running a x4 Board QB (90cri white) too on the other side. Was doing pretty well there then one day she's getting pale fast. Upping the base nutes a little gives tip burn & worse on some, 3-5ml/g Cal-Mag ain't helping much either. Nor has the separate Mag. Will be trying some BatGuano Tee stuff I use in veg hoping some poo N might help tonight. But not on all. Just one plant incase it goes sideways.
Hope this helps! GoodLuck!

Hey mate, well most of the plants I can see in the photos look pretty healthy. Perhaps it is strain dependent? In situations like that, I look at my plants and try to figure out what the difference is between the better performing plants and the ones that are suffering.

For example, if the big plants are yellowing and the smaller plants aren't, that usually points towards nutrient deficiency, as opposed to lockout or toxicity. If it's the reverse, that usually points the other way.

Check pot size, drainage and lift your pots to see if some are drier than others. Test your pH runoff to see if they're all the same. Test your EC (if you have a meter). Give the sicker plants a good flush with warm water to dissolve and flush any excess nutrient. I've found a slight higher pH seems to work well under LED by making calcium and magnesium more available. pH in the 6-6.5 range.

Maybe you could post some photos of the sick plants for us to have a look at?

 

[hybridway2]

This one isnt sick but has recently yellowed pertty bad under the QB.
Raising base nutes only caused to burn. Haven't gone through all the rest yet. I know your advice & routine on such matters & have followed it as much as possible since last yr.
I'm trying to keep em green under decent ppfd. Seems only the low lit areas stay darker & the white led bright areas go yellow

 

[Prawn Connery]

That's not a localised calcium or magnesium deficiency, but appears to be an alround macro-nutrient (NPK) deficiency possibly caused by lockout. I would cut back on the Ca and Mg supplements, no P supplements, flush with warm water and dose with 3/4 strength base nutrients. Are you adding PK or potash at this stage? What base nutrients are you using? Do you use silica? What's your pH/EC in and out and have your pots run dry lately or perhaps soaked with inadequate drainage?


EDIT: On closer look, there might be some light bleaching going on at the same time, however the yellowing appears to go deep into the canopy, which leads me to believe the primary source of stress is nutrient (possibly pH) or water related, and in its weakened state the plant is also susceptible to light burn/bleaching, as the less chlorophyll or pigment there is in the leaves, the less light energy they can synthesise and the more heat builds up in the cells.

As I said earlier, ask yourself: "What is different about this plant that it is not performing as well as the others" and you will be half-way there.

 

[Frank Cannon]

You won't get as much stretch under LEDs as you will HPS, so that will be your first lesson learned

My screen is 8" above the top of the pots and I pretty much turned as soon as the screen was as well filled as it could get, maybe an inch or 2 above screen, then I flipped. To get the longer colas, would I have been better to let the canopy get a bit taller above the screen and then flip? I was thinking that if I do this the bottom of the colas won't fill out, I guess it doesn't help if 2 plants have to do the work of nearly 4 as I remember the 10 litre pot rule...

LOL the Professor busy tonight with questions (whilst watching the cricket)

 

[Prawn Connery]

Well I'm guessing you probably have to. You've gone from a fairly weak green-yellow HPS (600W over 4.5'x4.5' is not a lot of light - it's about half the recommended 60-70W per sqft for HPS), to a blue-red LED with loads of power, so your plants won't stretch the same way. I guess you'll have to wait for the finished product to see how you go and have a better idea for the next grow.

I had the opposite problem this grow: I raised the lights for my sativas and let my indicas stretch during the first few weeks, and now the buds are all a bit elongated. I'm not sure the yield is there because the branches are long and the light needs to penetrate further, even though I've since lowered the LEDs thinking I could make it up in mid-late flower. It just goes to show all stages of flower are critical.

 

[BCBLondesLEDGrowLights]

This one isnt sick but has recently yellowed pertty bad under the QB.
Raising base nutes only caused to burn. Haven't gone through all the rest yet. I know your advice & routine on such matters & have followed it as much as possible since last yr.
I'm trying to keep em green under decent ppfd. Seems only the low lit areas stay darker & the white led bright areas go yellowView attachment 4264966 View attachment 4264967 View attachment 4264968

What kind of ppms are you using in your feed? THese seem very underfed. if you are burning them, then you are just increasing the ppm too quickly. you should be steadily increasing fert ppm from about week 2. I start with 1150 in veg, and first week of flower, then go up as high as 1600'ish for the last week before flush. But I also use a lot of PPF and a lot of co2...

 

[hybridway2]

What kind of ppms are you using in your feed? THese seem very underfed. if you are burning them, then you are just increasing the ppm too quickly. you should be steadily increasing fert ppm from about week 2. I start with 1150 in veg, and first week of flower, then go up as high as 1600'ish for the last week before flush. But I also use a lot of PPF and a lot of co2...

Or its white led bleaching & yellowing.
I slowly increased the PPMS. Didnt help.
I have now turned that light down as much as the driver would let me along with the cobs above the other plants doing the same.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Mate, I don't think it's all bleaching, because I can see yellowing deep in the canopy, which is out of the light. As I mentioned, it is a deficiency first - possibly a little bit of bleaching at the same time - but it's a matter of working out if the deficiency is caused by general underfeeding or lockout due to pH, insufficient flushing (or even overflushing - that can also lead to a deficiency), or overdoing the Cal-Mag or another supplement.

General PPM guidelines don't always work with every strain, which is why you have to look at the plant in isolation, as well as compare it to the other plants around it.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Just to be clear, that yellowing of the lower leaves progressively upwards is classic nitrogen deficiency. It looks like that plant could be one of your faster-growing ones, too, so that would explain the underfeeding (if that's what is causing it). @BCBLondesLEDGrowLights is seeing it too, so just consider it

 

[hybridway2]

Just to be clear, that yellowing of the lower leaves progressively upwards is classic nitrogen deficiency. It looks like that plant could be one of your faster-growing ones, too, so that would explain the underfeeding (if that's what is causing it). @BCBLondesLEDGrowLights is seeing it too, so just consider it

I understand. Some plants that had purpling stems are the ones that were locked out. All had the same feed & conditions so the ones that showed little to no sign of stress from that still must've fealt it. Meaning they prob weren't far off. Everything was flushed n feed.
What I'm seeing around the garden is everywhere the cobs or white led hits is yellowing. Some leaves turned white.
Then on that particular plant the leaves inside (where they weren't lolipopped enough- not enough light) are yellowish g like they do when they dont get light.
I do strongly believe these FoodGrade organic nutes I'm using are crap. Last run I did half the room with this stuff & the other half with my old nute & had issues w/ plants looking deficient.
What I've come up with over the last yr is, certain strains are fussy under white led. But the biggest issue is, you have to have the right nutes I've tried a few over the last 2 yrs. With Some of them I didnt have this problem.
I am breaking a few basic rules that could lead to imbalance of the pot.

 

[BCBLondesLEDGrowLights]

I RARELY get bleeching. and I put my leds close and run a shit load of ppf… I see it mentioned so many times in here, IMO you get bleaching when you are giving it WAY too much light, but also under feeding...

 

[BCBLondesLEDGrowLights]

also, whats the run off? I always ask this when there is a problem.... can you feed your plants so they are soaked and piss out the bottom, and then dry in 2-3 days? if not, you are using too big of a pot... I can soak mine every time I feed, every 2 days, and collect run off every time I feed. I also use fabric pots though. Makes it super easy to chart, and watch the ppms escalate and the ph drop, If im feeding too much....

 

[Prawn Connery]

If you're using CO2, you're probably not going to see bleaching under strong light because high CO2 levels aid photosynthesis and counter photo-oxidation due to build-up of light energy.

I think he's also in coco, so frequent waterings won't hurt - they'll actually help, especially with that perlite in there.

I believe full-spectrum LED light is great for photosynthesis, but you need to meet the plant's added nutrient requirements. If you have been upping the nutrient and seeing tip burn - but still suffering from a general nitrogen and possibly phosphorous deficiency - then it's something else, IMO. Possibly potassium (especially if you are growing in coco).

You haven't mentioned what you're feeding them, so I can only guess based on what I'm seeing in those photos. Certainly the tip burn is not nitrogen related, as your leaves would be dark green and start curling (clawing) downwards before that happened. Excess K can burn tips and is released by coco as it biodegrades. Again, I'm just guessing as you haven't provided much info . . .

 

[BCBLondesLEDGrowLights]

If you're using CO2, you're probably not going to see bleaching under strong light because high CO2 levels aid photosynthesis and counter photo-oxidation due to build-up of light energy.

Great point about c02, this is probably why I hardly ever see it, and it seems to be a fairly frequent problem on the forum. FWIW i'm in coco too.

 

[hybridway2]

If you're using CO2, you're probably not going to see bleaching under strong light because high CO2 levels aid photosynthesis and counter photo-oxidation due to build-up of light energy.

I think he's also in coco, so frequent waterings won't hurt - they'll actually help, especially with that perlite in there.

I believe full-spectrum LED light is great for photosynthesis, but you need to meet the plant's added nutrient requirements. If you have been upping the nutrient and seeing tip burn - but still suffering from a general nitrogen and possibly phosphorous deficiency - then it's something else, IMO. Possibly potassium (especially if you are growing in coco).

You haven't mentioned what you're feeding them, so I can only guess based on what I'm seeing in those photos. Certainly the tip burn is not nitrogen related, as your leaves would be dark green and start curling (clawing) downwards before that happened. Excess K can burn tips and is released by coco as it biodegrades. Again, I'm just guessing as you haven't provided much info . . .

I'm using the "Complete Hydroponics" line.
It does look allot like low N as well as bleaching or whatever although I havent been hitting them with super high ppfd.
That's why I added a veg tea to 2 of them to see if it helps. That tea keeps them dark green in veg.

 

[Prawn Connery]

Remember, if the plants are deficient, they won't be able to photosynthesise as much light, which will make them more susceptible to excess light energy, which creates a stress loop. When I first started growing under LED I had a similar problem. The solution was not just to up the nutrient level, but to turn down the lights until they recovered. I discovered this after I removed one plant and put it in the shade outside. It recovered in the most part because it was no longer being light stressed and, once it had recovered, I put it back inside under LED, gave it a good feed, and it thrived once more.