Is this Zinc Deficient?
- Thread starter JSheeze
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- dwc zinc deficiency
From that sheet, i see your water is very alkaline! 192 ppm's of calcium carbonate is a recipe for disaster, especially in coco where ph needs to be kept lower. Hard to say what issue you may have as you posted a single pic of a single leaf of a plant..you need more pics, showing the entire plant to get a better idea, but for now, that's one major thing, is your water. Based on the leaf pic, im seeing a magnesium issue.
Edit: I just now see you're in dwc, and not coco, even worse to have high alkalinity in hydro as ph needs to be kept even lower than coco.
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NaturalFarmer
Well-Known Member
Looks like Magnesium deficiency to me but could be due to your water like Blitz said. Mag def will yellow the inner portion of the leaf while leaving the veins dark green
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
Lol where is this written?
I thought it was a K or S lockout and think that is wrong so I started another thread. My plant wont wait for RIU etiquette sorry if I offended you by the 2 threads. I tried to delete past post but it was too late.
Whole grow...
Indica canopy..
Indica canopy (zoomed a bit)..
DWC
After I took these pics I pumped buckets dry. Pumped 5gal fresh (265ppm) pH-ed water back in (9gal capacity) to rinse. Then pumped it backed out. Then pumped 9gal 565ppm nutrient regimen back in.
565 ppm regimen:
I fill 5gal bucket with tap water and add 1 scoop from small end of 'MaxiBloom' (1 tsp I think) scoop provided with bag. Then add 6ml of Liquid KoolBloom. Then add 1ml of Floralicious+. Then add 15ml Root Farm pH down to 5.78 (start ~7.7). Then finish with a little hydroguard (Southern AG d747).
565ppm
5.75 pH but drifts to 6.1 and settles around there. Sometimes drifts higher then I have to add supplemental pH down.
*** it makes me think its Zinc over Mg due to these pics, although I think I did have a Mg deficit recently as the stems of the fans are very red an inch or 2 below the newest leaf growth which is coming in as green stems, but haven't grown out so maybe they will turn red as they grow out and its still Mg deficit?...
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JSheeze
Well-Known Member
I do feel like I'm using a shit load of pH down..
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
I added 2 tsp scoops of the maxi bloom to the res along with a tsp of Epsom salt. I figured if they were micro-deficient that the maxibloom might help so I added more base to get the added micros. Brought ppm to 850 and pH to 6.17. They got the tail end of a "lights on" and an entire "lights off," I'll see how they are doing here shortly.
JohnDee
Well-Known Member
Well JS I'm pulling for ya. Your water, at just under 200 is usable. I've seen people grow using 250ppm and even 300ppm. Be sure you add nutrients...then wait a bit before correcting the ph. The nutrients will drop your ph and allow you to use minimal ph down.
Improvement may take a few days. Some people will foliar spray as a correction. But rarely is that really needed. You aren't doing anything particularly sophisticated...solid basic nutrients. So I'm personally leaning toward a deficiency rather then a lockout. If you didn't have that Ca in your water...you would have to add it by using calmag. So I'm not at all worried about that.
And some strains are Mg hogs. White Widow along with other White strains almost always need extra MG.
Good luck,
JD
Improvement may take a few days. Some people will foliar spray as a correction. But rarely is that really needed. You aren't doing anything particularly sophisticated...solid basic nutrients. So I'm personally leaning toward a deficiency rather then a lockout. If you didn't have that Ca in your water...you would have to add it by using calmag. So I'm not at all worried about that.
And some strains are Mg hogs. White Widow along with other White strains almost always need extra MG.
Good luck,
JD
When you consider his tap water, roughly 265 PPM, and his PPM only 565 he was only giving them 300 in what looks like about 3 weeks in flower. I think they were starving and needed more N. Hopefully his moving to 850 which is 600 nutrients or close will fix it.
Good luck @JSheeze
JSheeze
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the support.
I had added 3ml Ca-Mg per 5gal, 2 or 3 times (I can't remember). Once was in week 2 I think, once was in week 3 and I think once was last week. I added the 3ml/5gal ontop of 1ml Floralicious+ as a topper-off-er throughout the week to keep res levels up.
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I ran out of 'pH down' yesterday and ontop of your suggestion that they were underfed I figured the maxibloom would help lower my pH as well. So they got the extra scoops to level out at 850ppm. Furthermore, I figured they were possibly Zinc deficient and the high mineral count in the tap water was neutralizing any free zinc from the limited maxibloom I was feeding so that was the third nudge to add more.
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I also added Epsom salt, about a tsp, because the stems did look like they had, or possibly are going through a Mg deficit and figured my deficiencies looked like possible sulfur deficiencies as well and ontop of getting the sulfur, getting the Mg from the Epsom was better than trying to get the Mg from the 5:1 Ca-Mg ratio in the GH calmag as my tap water is full of Ca already.
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The strains are Starwberry Banana (indica) & Velvet Bud (sativa), not sure on their lineages.
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pH was 6.22 at begining of lights on, and my 'pH down' came today so I added some and am currently reading 5.94. I've switched from Root Farm pH down (phosphoric) to a nitric acid pH down. It must be a higher concentration as it only took 9ml/5gal vs 15ml/5gal to achieve an initial 5.65pH reading.
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cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
With all due respect, no.Ph down won't help if the alkalinity is too high..you can pour a bottle of ph down in it, it won't matter! ph and alkalinity are two different things, and if alkalinity is high, like in your case, you would have to bring the ph down to near 4.5 to neutralize the alkalinity..at which point, the elements are locked out anyways. With a high alkaline water, it will always drift upwards to 7. Ideally, you're looking for around 50 ppm's of CaCo3 (calcium carbonate/alkalinity)..above 100 is not really ideal, you're at almost 200 and running hydro, it's a bad combo. For now, im not seeing a zinc issue at all, nor sulfur. Again, hard to tell as your pics are really distant and under hps lights..can't see anything. To me, it seems they are growing nice and you should have a great harvest!
pH-down is the specific and sovereign treatment for too many pHs.
Furthermore, pH and alkalinity are tightly correlated. If you know one, you know the other.
So, no.
Then there's that pesky cliff.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
With all the sad burnt-out hulks of pHs piled up at the base
You have plenty of Ca/Mg just feed them and you should be good.
He has a Ph.D. in Organic Chemistry (Princeton, no less) and teaches at the college level
Just walk away (he owns me regularly too) 
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
If only I had known this as a young Turk with a basement lab. I would have LOVED to cause chaos with nothing more than some hard water. I would seriously and deeply appreciate the references to this, especially in the original German.
cannabineer
Ursus marijanus
I rent you out often enough, no? Are you not happy?He has a Ph.D. in Organic Chemistry (Princeton, no less) and teaches at the college level