Howard Schultz for president?

tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
It's the job of the Democratic Party to denigrate and discredit the Left, while continuing to legitimise the rightward creep of the mainstream by 'resisting' (futilely) only its most overt excesses.
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The Democrats are the left.

One thing I fucking learned as a 40 yr. union steel worker is this:

There's only 2 sides. Don't break ranks and stick together or your side will not win.

Politics is a carbon copy.

There's only 2 sides. The Democrats have a big tent. You agree with 90%. Is that other 10% enough to let Trump have a chance at reelection? There's no compromise to be found?

Union members were never completely happy after a contract. But we stuck together like glue to get the best possible deal. You shake the tree too hard and you can really fuck it up.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
tangerinegreen555 said:
The Democrats are the left.

One thing I fucking learned as a 40 yr. union steel worker is this:

There's only 2 sides. Don't break ranks and stick together or your side will not win.

Politics is a carbon copy.

There's only 2 sides. The Democrats have a big tent. You agree with 90%. Is that other 10% enough to let Trump have a chance at reelection? There's no compromise to be found?

Union members were never completely happy after a contract. But we stuck together like glue to get the best possible deal. You shake the tree too hard and you can really fuck it up.
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Bernie's campaign showed that the Democratic Party no longer speaks for many on the left, and blindly supporting the Democrats has been an unmitigated disaster for unions.

Or haven't you noticed the precipitous decline of unions over the last half century?

It's time for a change. Either the Democratic Party can embrace it or they can get crushed by it. I predict the latter will happen first, followed, begrudgingly, by the former.
 
tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Bernie's campaign showed that the Democratic Party no longer speaks for many on the left, and blindly supporting the Democrats has been an unmitigated disaster for unions.

Or haven't you noticed the precipitous decline of unions over the last half century?

It's time for a change. Either the Democratic Party can embrace it or they can get crushed by it. I predict the latter will happen first, followed, begrudgingly, by the former.
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The real reasons for the decline of unions have virtually zero to do with the Democrats.

Nixon's 5 SCOTUS appointments in 5 1/2 years sure did starting with that 1971 PPG decision to steal health benefits from a profitable company's retirees.

So did corporate mismanagement and failure to reinvest.

And modernization for the companies (like mine) who did reinvest. There were 1800 people at my plant when I started, 500 when I retired.

The 500 put out 2X the steel that the 1800 did because of modern equipment.

And greedy companies moving to China.

And, I might add, those corporations that you criticize currently have higher standards towards women and minorities than our current federal government.

If our CEO said just one thing that Trump says daily, he'd be gone that day. HR takes that bullshit damn seriously and the unions work with HR to provide a modern harassment free environment.

Blaming Democrats for that isn't accurate.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
tangerinegreen555 said:
The real reasons for the decline of unions have virtually zero to do with the Democrats.

Nixon's 5 SCOTUS appointments in 5 1/2 years sure did starting with that 1971 PPG decision to steal health benefits from a profitable company's retirees.

So did corporate mismanagement and failure to reinvest.

And modernization for the companies (like mine) who did reinvest. There were 1800 people at my plant when I started, 500 when I retired.

The 500 put out 2X the steel that the 1800 did because of modern equipment.

And greedy companies moving to China.

And, I might add, those corporations that you criticize currently have higher standards towards women and minorities than our current federal government.

If our CEO said just one thing that Trump says daily, he'd be gone that day. HR takes that bullshit damn seriously and the unions work with HR to provide a modern harassment free environment.

Blaming Democrats for that isn't accurate.
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When Democrats were in power, they did nothing to reverse the indignities visited upon them by the previous Republican regimes, the cumulative result of which has been the steady erosion and disappearance of unions.

Democrats are definitely not blameless.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
When Democrats were in power, they did nothing to reverse the indignities visited upon them by the previous Republican regimes, the cumulative result of which has been the steady erosion and disappearance of unions.

Democrats are definitely not blameless.
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7 1/2 weeks

They got a ton of work done. Something Bernie never did. Salute to them that they focused energy on doing instead of vengeance.

Just goes to show that Democrats are nothing like Republicans or Cult of Sanders.

Your kind should start your own party -- you have the nucleus of a party what with seven seated in Congress. It's a great start. Go forth. Go away, and make something of yourselves. Somewhere else.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
7 1/2 weeks

They got a ton of work done. Something Bernie never did. Salute to them that they focused energy on doing instead of vengeance.

Just goes to show that Democrats are nothing like Republicans or Cult of Sanders.

Your kind should start your own party -- you have the nucleus of a party what with seven seated in Congress. It's a great start. Go forth. Go away, and make something of yourselves. Somewhere else.
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Look at that- a whole bunch of crap that has nothing to do with my point, nevermind refuting or rebutting my point, which is that Democrats have done unions no favors over the past 40 years.

Unions have had a resurgence very recently, IN SPITE OF party leaders.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Look at that- a whole bunch of crap that has nothing to do with my point, nevermind refuting or rebutting my point, which is that Democrats have done unions no favors over the past 40 years.

Unions have had a resurgence very recently, IN SPITE OF party leaders.
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Yep, the trust fund boy really understands the relationship between labor and the Democratic Party.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Your conclusions are, as usual, clouded by your own assumptions.
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I grew up in a union family. There is a complex relationship between union members and the Democratic Party. Union members voted in large numbers for Nixon and Reagan mostly because of white racism. Yet they expect the Democratic Party to support them. Which they do but not always.

The decline of unions is also a complex subject. Your simple minded BS about Democrats only says that you don't understand. A trust fund boy like you who invents conspiracy theories in lieu of understanding a subject is naturally limited when it comes to things beyond their experience.
 
Boberman

Boberman

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
I grew up in a union family. There is a complex relationship between union members and the Democratic Party. Union members voted in large numbers for Nixon and Reagan mostly because of white racism. Yet they expect the Democratic Party to support them. Which they do but not always.

The decline of unions is also a complex subject. Your simple minded BS about Democrats only says that you don't understand. A trust fund boy like you who invents conspiracy theories in lieu of understanding a subject is naturally limited when it comes to things beyond their experience.
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There some unions that need to completely disappear.. Let's look at the teachers union. You cannot fire badd teachers. And I know you're gonna say something like but they don't get enough pay. You're right but that problem comes from the Union as well. They've created too many upper echelon jobs that are far overpaid. . All of these positions are protected by the union as well. In my daughters school they have four vice principals let me repeat that four of them. They don't teach class I'm not sure what they do. I do know if they fired a couple of them they could give that money to the teachers.. But they're protected by the Union as well. The whole union needs to be ripped out and ineffective and unneeded people need to be fired and teachers need to be paid more with the money they save. It is the only way to get rid of the bureaucracy at the top.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Boberman said:
There some unions that need to completely disappear.. Let's look at the teachers union. You cannot fire badd teachers. And I know you're gonna say something like but they don't get enough pay. You're right but that problem comes from the Union as well. They've created too many upper echelon jobs that are far overpaid. . All of these positions are protected by the union as well. In my daughters school they have four vice principals let me repeat that four of them. They don't teach class I'm not sure what they do. I do know if they fired a couple of them they could give that money to the teachers.. But they're protected by the Union as well. The whole union needs to be ripped out and ineffective and unneeded people need to be fired and teachers need to be paid more with the money they save. It is the only way to get rid of the bureaucracy at the top.
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Yeah yeah. Union protects bad workers. BS

It cuts both ways. Sometimes a worker does need to be removed. Sometimes a manager has a vendetta against a worker. Every union contract includes procedures for termination that both protects good workers and gives managers a procedure for termination. Especially teachers who deal with insane parents, and there are always at least one or two who think they know better. The union and the school board need procedures like this so that nut cases like you can't interfere with the work force.

You are an ignoramus. As you say, you don't know anything about those vice principals. Nobody like you should have leverage on what a teacher or administrator does. Bravo for unions.
 
tangerinegreen555

tangerinegreen555

Well-Known Member
Boberman said:
There some unions that need to completely disappear.. Let's look at the teachers union. You cannot fire badd teachers. And I know you're gonna say something like but they don't get enough pay. You're right but that problem comes from the Union as well. They've created too many upper echelon jobs that are far overpaid. . All of these positions are protected by the union as well. In my daughters school they have four vice principals let me repeat that four of them. They don't teach class I'm not sure what they do. I do know if they fired a couple of them they could give that money to the teachers.. But they're protected by the Union as well. The whole union needs to be ripped out and ineffective and unneeded people need to be fired and teachers need to be paid more with the money they save. It is the only way to get rid of the bureaucracy at the top.
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Too bad you couldn't get a good union job.

Doubt they would hire you where I worked anyway, you had to pass an iintelligence test to get in.
 
UncleBuck

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Boberman said:
There some unions that need to completely disappear.. Let's look at the teachers union. You cannot fire badd teachers. And I know you're gonna say something like but they don't get enough pay. You're right but that problem comes from the Union as well. They've created too many upper echelon jobs that are far overpaid. . All of these positions are protected by the union as well. In my daughters school they have four vice principals let me repeat that four of them. They don't teach class I'm not sure what they do. I do know if they fired a couple of them they could give that money to the teachers.. But they're protected by the Union as well. The whole union needs to be ripped out and ineffective and unneeded people need to be fired and teachers need to be paid more with the money they save. It is the only way to get rid of the bureaucracy at the top.
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Who cares what you think?

You got crushed in the last election

Shut up
 
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