HALPPPPPPP

[OscarZulu]

Okay so I have another thread where I have talked about my plants from pretty much the start, but I wanted to make a separate thread to see if I can finally get some ideas on a pinpoint of this issue. Okay, so for quite awhile now, my plants leaves are doing terrible, not all of them, but enough. Multiple a day it seems. They also feel quite dry and the ones with the obvious issues can be easily crushed in fingers.

About the grow

CRITICAL Mass strain with a couple NL
3-5 gallon FABRIC pots
Fox farms ocean Forrest medium
General Organics go box
480w quantum light
2x4 tent


I have already done the following.

-Check PH
-Flush
-Feed Extra
-added humidity so it’s 50-60%
-watered appropriately (I believe)
-made sure temps are stable 75-80 in the day and 65-70 at night
-made sure nutrients such as calmag were plentiful
-have tried RO water, spring water, tap water and distilled water.


These are steps I’ve taken to try and fix the issue. I can not tell what it is. I don’t have pests, I have tried to flush to see if it was a toxicity, I have tried to double feed to see if it is deficient. I have checked PH and checked my meter compared to my friends and parents and it’s all within about .10-.15 of each other. I PH at 6.3 most the time but have moved it around previously to see if it would correct the issue.

The strain is Critical Mass, but I have some northern lights that have displayed somewhat similar characteristics. I do have some purple/red stems on larger fan leaves. I would say that this is my first time in fabric pots. I have two northern lights in plastic pots and they seem to be healthier than the ones in fabric pots. Has anyone had issues like this with fabric pots? I always thought they were suppose to be superior. They sit under 480 watts of full spectrum quantum boards LM561C diodes. Anyways, please view photos and see if you can help me out. I’m wanting to switch to flower but not until these issues are resolved.

 

[NwGKenny]

have you inspected your root mass for signs of root rot?

 

[OscarZulu]

have you inspected your root mass for signs of root rot?

On all the plants though? How would you suggest going about checking in a fabric pot? just pull it out?

 

[OscarZulu]

I pulled one of the bigger ones out of the fabric pot (not fun, don’t like these pots) and there weren’t really any roots showing yet since it was recently transplanted. I then pulled one of the NL that I know need transplanted soon and this is what was there. Does this look like Root Rot? Seems brownish on the side I guess and nice and white on the bottom.

 

[NwGKenny]

I think that checking at least one of the plants showing pronounced symptoms is enough, your roots look fine in my opinion (as long as there is not a strong foul smell coming from the root mass).

this looks a lot like P deficiency

be sure that after you fully flush the soil: you top her off with a dose of at least 1/2 strength nutrients and cal mag or you will exacerbate nutrient deficiency symptoms.

Have you checked your run off PH? Check it after the water has had time to cycle through the container, not right after pouring water into the dried medium.

 

[OscarZulu]

I have indeed checked run off and it comes out at 6.7. I believed this was P deficiency as well and have fed it LOTS and LOTS of P. The only thing I can think of is that it is being locked out but I don't know by what.

 

[NwGKenny]

Phosphorous can be locked out with a PH above 7 and temperatures below 61 degrees Fahrenheit.

Your soil PH is probably around 7 and is causing lockout issues. Your room could be dropping too low for some part of the night cycle.

Be sure you let your soil dry out enough before you water again, although you do not have root rot, starving the roots of oxygen can cause virtually any symptom to appear.

 

[OscarZulu]

I have a thermometer humidistat combo deal and it hasn’t dropped below 67 in 3 days and it was 65 before then. I mean, if our PH meters are off then I suppose yes, my ph could be above 7. However, I have also used the rapid test that comes with the general hydroponics ph adjustment kit and have tried to use that as a measurement tool as well. It’s nice to see more people agreeing that it appears to be phosphorus, but upsetting that I can’t figure it out.

 

[NwGKenny]

I have a thermometer humidistat combo deal and it hasn’t dropped below 67 in 3 days and it was 65 before then. I mean, if our PH meters are off then I suppose yes, my ph could be above 7. However, I have also used the rapid test that comes with the general hydroponics ph adjustment kit and have tried to use that as a measurement tool as well. It’s nice to see more people agreeing that it appears to be phosphorus, but upsetting that I can’t figure it out.

Excess salts in the grow medium, when you flushed did you use 3x the container volume of water? (example: run 9 gallons through a 3 gallon container)

Or it is slight over watering imo

your plants don't even look bad man.

 

[OscarZulu]

I don’t know EXACTLY how much I ran through it, but I did use my city tap water to flush it and I know I used a lot. I used my sink faucet. I had a paper that told me everything that was in our water and how many PPM before, I wish I could find it.

 

[NwGKenny]

I don’t know EXACTLY how much I ran through it, but I did use my city tap water to flush it and I know I used a lot. I used my sink faucet. I had a paper that told me everything that was in our water and how many PPM before, I wish I could find it.

don't worry about that, if anything your tap water has calcium and beneficial micro-nutrients in it(besides the chlorine lol).

 

[NwGKenny]

Have you tried foliar feeding your plants? Foliar feeding works FAST. Foliar feeding doesn't require soil, so PH or Root issues will not lock out nutrients. Be careful with your nutrient solution strength and test this on one of the plants with symptoms before you spray the others (spray it right before lights out and check it 12 hours later for any signs of nutrient burn). Scarred leaves will not heal, but look for the symptoms to stop progressing within 3-4 days.

 

[OscarZulu]

I have not tried that. I will give it a go tonight on the big plant as that one is showing the most signs of issue.,

 

[OscarZulu]

I did get really curious after you said root rot though and did cut a whole in the bottom of my fabric pot just to make sure my biggest plant that is having the most problems doesn't have root rot and the roots are nice and white with no smell so I think we can rule that out for certain

 

[NwGKenny]

I did get really curious after you said root rot though and did cut a whole in the bottom of my fabric pot just to make sure my biggest plant that is having the most problems doesn't have root rot and the roots are nice and white with no smell so I think we can rule that out for certain

Then breathe easy bud, root rot is a death sentence. Try the foliar feeding and see if you can get the deficiency to stop spreading.

 

[Chip Green]

checked your run off PH

Testing the run off, will not provide an accurate measure of soil PH....
A SLURRRY test, is possible, but there is a specific method to this to avoid inaccuracies as well.
In soil, runoff PH results = poppycock.

Runoff PH tests from soil are about as useful as those f'n two pronged, PH/Moisture meters in the Home Depot Garden section.

 

[OscarZulu]

Testing the run off, will not provide an accurate measure of soil PH....
A SLURRRY test, is possible, but there is a specific method to this to avoid inaccuracies as well.
In soil, runoff PH results = poppycock.

Runoff PH tests from soil are about as useful as those f'n two pronged, PH/Moisture meters in the Home Depot Garden section.

So what do you suggest?

 

[Chip Green]

Unless you are willing to invest in a relatively expensive(for most hobby growers anyway) Soil PH probe (Hanna, Bluelab, ect)...
the slurry test, or sending a sample to a lab is the only way to truly KNOW....which in most cases, is highly impractical.
Comparing runoff PH, to the readings on my Blulab probe, its not even close....ever. Runoff can read 6.7, soil probe reads 5.5....
There are some growers who refute the readings from "good" soil probes even, insist on Lab results only.


You've been given some good advice throughout this thread, especially the foliar feeding option... I just wanted to offer my opinion on the matter of runoff PH, since I was in your shoes at one point, chasing my tail with lockout issues, due to extremely misleading PH values from cheap equipment and suspect methods....

The other thing, the most common deficiency most growers will encounter, is a patience deficiency. Nothing good happens quickly in the growroom. I use a lot of FF soils, things really started to improve for me, when I SLOWED WAY down (basically eliminated) on the VEG feedings….
Trying to FLUSH the nutes out of FFOF, can be a losing battle, that stuff holds onto its heat for a LONG time, getting it wet too often just heats it up.....ended up causing more problems for me.

Those plants look alright by the way. I've had plants look WAY worse, that still produced worthwhile results in the end.
All of your conditions seem in an acceptable range.

 

[Joint Monster]

What I would do at this point is... up PH from 6.3 to 6.5-6.7 range.

This is why I like to choose amended soil or plain soil + nutrients. Not both. Now I don't really know how much nutrients are in your soil and how long those plants have been in the soil/how nutrient rich the soil currently is. So I can not make any suggestions on feeding.

What I can tell you, is to make sure you are following the feed chart accurately and then feeding the correct PH/PPM solution to your plants.

Every time you flush you are feeding your plants who knows what ratio of nutrients, contained in your FF-Soil. That surely is not helping your situation. Over-feeding in compensation will also not help.

Figure out the correct nutrient amount for your girls, and then feed that regularly. Look for signs that the problem is Not getting worse and you are on the right track.

I am getting multiple mixed signals, N deficiency, P deficiency, K deficiency, Ca deficiency... that's usually indicative of incorrect PH or other pathogens. I don't think you have any diseases/pathogens, so play with your PH a little and see if that helps.

Also remember to not over-water in the quest to fix your nutrient problem.

 

[OscarZulu]

For the hell of it, I decided to put the big plant in a different 5 gallon container, root ball looked great until the bottom. This is the bottom of the container where the roots tore off. Root rot? I think that the bottom of the pot is staying too wet after watering and that is drowning the bottom roots. I hate these fabric pots with a passion. I will be switching next grow.