Insights on breeding with reg seeds.

[MATTYMATT726]

Never have used reg seeds. Am about to get a 10 pack and had some questions on making seeds via M/F. How long/tall do you guys/gals like to let the seeds go before picking a M and F? Do you let the M polinate all F or o ly best one to get the best looking pheno seeds? When you flip to 12/12 how long after you see sex(2 weeks or so i believe?) do you have before the M polinates the F? Do you prefer to cut once you see seeds fully ready since F is now weaker potency and just get on to planting new seeds for Females or do you like to finish the few weeks for seeded F anyways? Looking for any and all personal "this is how i do it" on the topic. Happy growing.

 

[Observe & Report]

The best way to do it is to throw away the males, pick the two best females after fully flowering, reverse one and dust the other.

Otherwise you have to pollenate your best female with each male and grow out some seeds from each pairing to figure out which male is carrying the best female flower traits. That's too much work so nobody does it and just chucks the male with the best stem rub, vigor, structure, whatever. You're just throwing the dice that way, not selecting for the traits you're interested as you could if you could directly observe both parents.

 

[JohnDee]

Hi Mat,
What you are talking about is pollen chucking and not breeding. I'm in the middle of a seed crop right now so I'll tell you how I did it. I had several batches of breeder packs. Mr Nice dreamtime and some freebies. I ended up with 4 males and 6 female. I chose a male of known lineage...one I'd grown before.

If all your seeds were sown at the same time, then nature takes care of the timing. At about three weeks + into flowering, stretch was over and buds were well started...the male reached maturity and started to shed pollen. I did all 6 of the females so no isolation was needed. I removed the male for reveg.

So now it's just a matter of letting them grow and mature the seeds. I'm pretty sure I have a couple of skunks and two of known lineage are a high thc Alaska strain called Ketchiu-Kush. They will reach seed maturity probably at different times so I'll just have to watch for seeds to show themselves, You can peal the ovule back and see the seed...so I'll harvest when the seeds are nice and dark or falling out of bud. No sense in seeding only to harvest too early. Seed maturity is the crucial element.

So now I'll have 6 F-1's and while I don't know the strain names...I know the structure...growth characteristics, potency smells etc. Should keep me away from seed sellers for a decade.
JD

 

[MATTYMATT726]

Hi Mat,
What you are talking about is pollen chucking and not breeding. I'm in the middle of a seed crop right now so I'll tell you how I did it. I had several batches of breeder packs. Mr Nice dreamtime and some freebies. I ended up with 4 males and 6 female. I chose a male of known lineage...one I'd grown before.

If all your seeds were sown at the same time, then nature takes care of the timing. At about three weeks + into flowering, stretch was over and buds were well started...the male reached maturity and started to shed pollen. I did all 6 of the females so no isolation was needed. I removed the male for reveg.

So now it's just a matter of letting them grow and mature the seeds. I'm pretty sure I have a couple of skunks and two of known lineage are a high thc Alaska strain called Ketchiu-Kush. They will reach seed maturity probably at different times so I'll just have to watch for seeds to show themselves, You can peal the ovule back and see the seed...so I'll harvest when the seeds are nice and dark or falling out of bud. No sense in seeding only to harvest too early. Seed maturity is the crucial element.

So now I'll have 6 F-1's and while I don't know the strain names...I know the structure...growth characteristics, potency smells etc. Should keep me away from seed sellers for a decade.
JD

Yeah, i wasn't intending on taking a m/f and sexing for seeds than re sexing that gens m/f for traits so didn't rrally mean searching for specific traits and moving down lines. Just wanted to find best or easiest way witout too mich thought how to plant a 10 pack or regs and make more seeds out of them with ttaits from that stock of m/f. It would obviously be a strain id want plenty of seeds without continuing to buy when more than not might be males. I thought easiest way would be hope for 4-6 m and 4-6 f and just pick best m/f and separate for seeds and just flowwr the rest of the females since ive never done any sort of play with SC/STS or pollen.

 

[JohnDee]

Matty,
It's not a difficult process...and you'll be very pleased when you don't have to fork out cash for new seeds.

One little trick I've used over the years is to use clones for seed making. It's easy to move small plants around...so you can remove them from main flower room. You won't get lots of seeds but I've gotten 15 to 20 seeds off a 6" clone.
JD

 

[Dryxi]

Matty,
It's not a difficult process...and you'll be very pleased when you don't have to fork out cash for new seeds.

One little trick I've used over the years is to use clones for seed making. It's easy to move small plants around...so you can remove them from main flower room. You won't get lots of seeds but I've gotten 15 to 20 seeds off a 6" clone.
JD

If you do the 2 females, turn one to Male and dust the other, does not having a male in the line hurt the line? I mean if I went that route, found 2 nice females I like and doing it again, and again, and so on, does the line suffer from a lack of male influence or is it no real difference except getting fem seeds repeatedly?

 

[Observe & Report]

If you do the 2 females, turn one to Male and dust the other, does not having a male in the line hurt the line? I mean if I went that route, found 2 nice females I like and doing it again, and again, and so on, does the line suffer from a lack of male influence or is it no real difference except getting fem seeds repeatedly?

No, the lack of males being bad is another myth spread by the femphobes. There's nothing missing in fem seeds, they are indistinguishable from the half of regular seeds that come up female.

 

[xtsho]

I pretty much run regular seeds exclusively. I make seeds every grow. I'm a big time pollen chucker. I'll pop ten seeds and keep the best male and then pollinate the best looking female. I've been growing landraces mostly. I'll buy a pack of ten seeds and end up with hundreds of that strain. I've been making my own crosses also. I typically flower smaller plants. I let them ripen until the seeds are literally falling out of the buds. Sort the seeds and roll joints with the weed. I make feminized seeds as well using STS. Those I typically give away to friends. Although I just dusted a Thai with some pollen from a Hawaiian that I reversed. I also made feminized Hawaiian seeds as well. It's pretty simple. It's not rocket science. There is no need to spend $20 - $30 a piece for seeds. Many of the seeds out there are nothing special. It seems like every pollen chucker is making a website to sell seeds. Much of them are nothing more than what I and many others do. There are few true breeders.

I would say get some decent genetic lines to start with. Landrace sativa's and indica's when crossed make good hybrids. ACE, Cannabiogen are a couple outfits with good breeding programs and good stable genetic lines. Good luck.

Here's some of my pollen chucking results.

 

[OldMedUser]

Yeah, i wasn't intending on taking a m/f and sexing for seeds than re sexing that gens m/f for traits so didn't rrally mean searching for specific traits and moving down lines. Just wanted to find best or easiest way witout too mich thought how to plant a 10 pack or regs and make more seeds out of them with ttaits from that stock of m/f. It would obviously be a strain id want plenty of seeds without continuing to buy when more than not might be males. I thought easiest way would be hope for 4-6 m and 4-6 f and just pick best m/f and separate for seeds and just flowwr the rest of the females since ive never done any sort of play with SC/STS or pollen.

If you cross plants from the same stable strain you'll get seeds that will grow out with the same attributes. Stability is key tho as many seeds are being sold that are just F1 crosses like @xtsho mentioned and you'll have different phenos with plants grown from those.

Well bred plants take years sometimes to get them stable enough that almost every plant is exactly the same. These are worth paying more for but even $5/seed is too much for F1s when you consider that you can get 1000+ seeds off one plant with little effort.

I've been pollen chucking for almost 20 years and don't 'need' to buy seeds but likely will buy a few to get some hi-CBD plants of known potency for my own breeding projects. Not into getting blasted off my ass anymore but need good medicine.

 

[LinguaPeel]

There's nothing missing in fem seeds, they are indistinguishable from the half of regular seeds that come up female.

Except for that microscopic miscarriage inside every calyx.

 

[Observe & Report]

Except for that microscopic miscarriage inside every calyx.

What do you mean?

 

[OldMedUser]

Except for that microscopic miscarriage inside every calyx.

A wild card in every deck for sure.

 

[T macc]

Except for that microscopic miscarriage inside every calyx.

There's what Subcool called a micro-seed. Or what another member called an ovule. If you dig in the calyx of a fem seed plant, there's a very very tiny seed. Sub doesn't breed with fems and I don't want to touch them either anymore, but for the right genetics, I'll use them. Though I'm just a small time pollen chucker myself. Many phenotypes in regular seeds

 

[Dryxi]

There's what Subcool called a micro-seed. Or what another member called an ovule. If you dig in the calyx of a fem seed plant, there's a very very tiny seed. Sub doesn't breed with fems and I don't want to touch them either anymore, but for the right genetics, I'll use them. Though I'm just a small time pollen chucker myself. Many phenotypes in regular seeds

This? https://beyondthc.com/the-cannabis-female-flower/

 

[T macc]

This? https://beyondthc.com/the-cannabis-female-flower/

Yea. I didn't read the whole thread I'm posting, but it seems fem plants' ovules don't shrink as much? Will have to go back and read thru this soon

https://www.rollitup.org/t/this-ovule-not-seed-thing-needs-explained-by-an-experienced-grower-please.982676/

 

[Dryxi]

Yea. I didn't read the whole thread I'm posting, but it seems fem plants' ovules don't shrink as much? Will have to go back and read thru this soon

https://www.rollitup.org/t/this-ovule-not-seed-thing-needs-explained-by-an-experienced-grower-please.982676/

Ya but every cannabis plant has them, different sizes for em all too, just normally really small. But even if a fem plant might have an enlarged one, it shouldn't have anything to do with the actual DNA of the plant. I've never done it, but I wonder if you breed with a fem seed, if the prodigy also has a slightly larger ovule. And if you f2 those, I very much doubt it would still be enlarged since the DNA isn't being changed, and if anything special is causing the enlargement it would be the method of feminizing the seeds, I would think. All conjecture, I haven't looked into it.

 

[JohnDee]

I thought easiest way would be hope for 4-6 m and 4-6 f and just pick best m/f and separate for seeds and just flowwr the rest of the females since ive never done any sort of play with SC/STS or pollen.

Matt,
I just wanted to introduce you to another idea called "open pollination. It's a method breeders (and pollen chuckers) use when they have a group of plants from the same seed generation...like you do with your seedpack.

If you don't mind full pollination...just let nature take it's course and let ALL the males to pollinate ALL the females. There are arguments for doing this...certain natural advantages.

And one other trick I would do is to reveg all the females...and run them through flowering again...for bud harvest this time That's a nice clean path to maximizing your 10 seeds.
JD

 

[ApfelStrudel]

Matt,
I just wanted to introduce you to another idea called "open pollination. It's a method breeders (and pollen chuckers) use when they have a group of plants from the same seed generation...like you do with your seedpack.

If you don't mind full pollination...just let nature take it's course and let ALL the males to pollinate ALL the females. There are arguments for doing this...certain natural advantages.

And one other trick I would do is to reveg all the females...and run them through flowering again...for bud harvest this time That's a nice clean path to maximizing your 10 seeds.
JD

While doing this one could build an isolation chamber and throw in rooted cuts with all the plants from the pack. This way much less space is used and one still gets unseeded harvest to reap instead of having a whole room full of seeded plants. This method will provide more than enough seeds for preservation and keep the gene pool wide. The iso chamber would only take up a spot of one plant instead of the whole room.

Just an idea

 

[T macc]

Ya but every cannabis plant has them, different sizes for em all too, just normally really small. But even if a fem plant might have an enlarged one, it shouldn't have anything to do with the actual DNA of the plant. I've never done it, but I wonder if you breed with a fem seed, if the prodigy also has a slightly larger ovule. And if you f2 those, I very much doubt it would still be enlarged since the DNA isn't being changed, and if anything special is causing the enlargement it would be the method of feminizing the seeds, I would think. All conjecture, I haven't looked into it.

True. If chem 91 is the mother to og kush, and if it's true that chem 91 is the result of a feminizing project, then someone can crack open any of today's Kusher and see if the ovule is enlarged. That's IF no other parent came from another fem seed. Or do as you said and f2 a strain

 

[kkt3]

I pretty much run regular seeds exclusively. I make seeds every grow. I'm a big time pollen chucker. I'll pop ten seeds and keep the best male and then pollinate the best looking female. I've been growing landraces mostly. I'll buy a pack of ten seeds and end up with hundreds of that strain. I've been making my own crosses also. I typically flower smaller plants. I let them ripen until the seeds are literally falling out of the buds. Sort the seeds and roll joints with the weed. I make feminized seeds as well using STS. Those I typically give away to friends. Although I just dusted a Thai with some pollen from a Hawaiian that I reversed. I also made feminized Hawaiian seeds as well. It's pretty simple. It's not rocket science. There is no need to spend $20 - $30 a piece for seeds. Many of the seeds out there are nothing special. It seems like every pollen chucker is making a website to sell seeds. Much of them are nothing more than what I and many others do. There are few true breeders.

I would say get some decent genetic lines to start with. Landrace sativa's and indica's when crossed make good hybrids. ACE, Cannabiogen are a couple outfits with good breeding programs and good stable genetic lines. Good luck.

Here's some of my pollen chucking results.

Hey xtsho, I am thinking of acquiring some landrace seeds. Do you know of a good source for such purpose?