Hydroponic addition of Chelates (specifically Fulvic acids) PRE nutes or POST nutes?

ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
Should you add your Fulvic/Humic mix to the hydrponic reservoir first, even before adding any Si?

Being that humic has such a larger molecule size and can't be absorbed by the roots, should humics be avoided in hydro or DWC as they could clog roots? Is that the staining people are seeing some times with "organic" or "dark colored" nutes?

Seems like if you added the fulvic acids after all the nutes and additives, that there could be some precipates formed already which would be messing with your target nute ratio, (thus the pre-addition hypothesis)?

EDIT: Also, have you used synthetic chelates in hydro, and which ones? Which are cheaper (fulvic vs synthetic)? More effective?

I'm wondering if GH Diamond Nectar is better than GH Floralicious+ (in DWC), and perhaps if the floalicious+ should actually be avoided in hydro? I currently use the Flora+ but not the DN..
 
Last edited:
ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
According to Dr. Robert Faust, 15ppm of fulvic acids (the gold colored stuff) is the max recommended amount for hydro. Also, humics should be avoided in hydro (the black colored stuff).

In essence, the fulvic acid helps with the uptake. The humic acid helps with the soil structure.

Heard it here...
https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/cannabis-cultivation-and-science-podcast-episode-11


********


But still curious if it matters when you add to your res???
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
i use bio ag cytoplus (kelp, humics, micros) and it mixes up pretty good for hydro. my res will have a bit of residue but not horrible.
and i have cut down my nute use too since adding it. at least 1g/gal less of maxibloom.
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
This is all I can answer as I don't bother with fulvic acid or silica. Iron DTPA is good stuff. It's pretty much the only non-white salt used and it will turn whatever stock solution it's in a deep orangish-red color.
Click to expand...
i've always been on the fence about Silica. so you are a no Si guy? i can't really tell the difference when used or not used. what makes you not use it?
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
churchhaze said:
I don't use it because the plant doesn't use it. I've never heard of a silicon deficiency before. I'm convinced the people using it are noticing the effects from adding more K. I'd rather KISS and get that K from KNO3 and KH2PO4 since NO3- and H2PO4- are actually things the plant needs..
Click to expand...
the only reason i tried it was for the supposed stronger stalks argument. i think a fan blowing on them does more for that than the Si. and a large, healthy root mass too.

and good point about the Si. never heard of a toxicity or deficiency either.
 
myke

myke

Well-Known Member
Ive fed fulvic a week before taking cuts,roots did appear quicker then when not used.
I use it regularly now at 1 ml/L,never checked what ppm that is.
As far as when to mix in IDK.Curious what others do.
 
ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
Thanks for all the replies guys.

Si is found in the plant tissue, and helps the plant in many ways. I'm not a snake oil guy and after hearing Dr. Allison Justice talk about its importance feel confident to suggest it to others. I notice when I don't use Si my plants get much more "floppy." I personally don't like taking someones word on it that idk, so heres what influenced me.



Here's an article..
https://www.maximumyield.com/simply-silica/2/1077



Here's the podcast with guest Dr. Allison Justice on "organic vs/and hydro gardening" ...
https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/cannabis-cultivation-and-science-podcast-episode-43



Here's the podcast with Dr. Robert Faust on "Humics/Fulvics and organic chelation" ...
https://www.kisorganics.com/pages/cannabis-cultivation-and-science-podcast-episode-11
 
ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
i use bio ag cytoplus (kelp, humics, micros) and it mixes up pretty good for hydro. my res will have a bit of residue but not horrible.
and i have cut down my nute use too since adding it. at least 1g/gal less of maxibloom.
Click to expand...
How dark is the product in color? Do you know the NPK?

I use maxibloom as well. But with Floralicious+ for my humic and micro additive.

I think that's his company (Bio-Ag; Dr. Faust) or the one he consults for, or the one he was talking about, I think he recommends only the "Ful-Power" for hydro, I'm going to try it instead of my GH Flora+.
 
Last edited:
ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
myke said:
Ive fed fulvic a week before taking cuts,roots did appear quicker then when not used.
I use it regularly now at 1 ml/L,never checked what ppm that is.
As far as when to mix in IDK.Curious what others do.
Click to expand...
Dr. Faust says that fulvics are the only thing that stimulate root growth (naturally or organically). Start from 1:02:50 for where he talks about it. These podcasts with the PhD guests are like gold in my book.

@1:23:19
They took fescue seed at the Oregon St University Seed Lab, and soaked it in different concentrations of Fulvic acid and recorded seed germination rate. At 1:1000 dilution there was significant increase in germination rate.
 
Last edited:
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
ChiefRunningPhist said:
How dark is the product in color? Do you know the NPK?

I use maxibloom as well. But with Floralicious+ for my humic and micro additive.

I think that's his company (Bio-Ag; Dr. Faust) or the one he consults for, or the one he was talking about, I think he recommends only the "Ful-Power" for hydro, I'm going to try it instead of my GH Flora+.
Click to expand...
0-0-7.5
and when mixed is very dark in color. like very strong coffee.
dr faust is the guy behind bio ag.

i used the ful power a few years ago: was extremely expensive to use. if i remember 30mL /gal
 
ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
0-0-7.5
and when mixed is very dark in color. like very strong coffee.
dr faust is the guy behind bio ag.

i used the ful power a few years ago: was extremely expensive to use. if i remember 30mL /gal
Click to expand...
That's crazy, it must be pretty diluted cause he recommends it at no more than 15ppm in the podcast.
 
ChiefRunningPhist

ChiefRunningPhist

Well-Known Member
rkymtnman said:
maybe i'm wrong but i could swear i was using anywhere from 200 to 300 mL in 10 gallons.

and the gallon was about 45 bucks i think.
Click to expand...
Lol idk @ 1:03:50 he says 15ppm from seed till chop is best. When I add Floralicious+ its super dark colored and changes the nute solution more than anything but changes my ppm the least. I wonder if the Ful-power is the same way. I'm going to get a gallon for the next grow but I think you may have used a shit load when you did use it lol but who cares and idk :p
 
ounevinsmoke

ounevinsmoke

Well-Known Member
ChiefRunningPhist said:
I'm wondering if GH Diamond Nectar is better than GH Floralicious+ (in DWC), and perhaps if the floalicious+ should actually be avoided in hydro? I currently use the Flora+ but not the DN..
Click to expand...
I have great results with diamond nectar and my particular nute mix. Floralicious+ And Si did not agree with my plants even in small amounts in hydro. I followed the GH chart to a T and saw nothing spectacular and actual degradation with the introduction of si and floralicious +. I stopped using both but still use diamond nectar in small amounts in Hydro.

Note: Deep Water Culture(DWC) and Hydro(clay pebble medium, recirculating) can have drastically different results depending on your soup. I have never done the entire GH feed chart in DWC or used Floralicious + or Si in DWC.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top