Stealthstyle
Well-Known Member
With vertical SOG's they often grow up until the buds get heavy enough to head sideways towards the light. 1 week veg is recomended and 8 inches between clones in all directions,- up above, below and side by side.
Vertical setup possible issue
- Thread starter George2324
- Start date
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you should get your lights closer if you want them to react more. I keep my 1k hps 12-14 inches from my canopy and get no light burn. Lots of experienced LeD growers know you can keep LEDs the same distance some times even closer.
I don't understand this new generation of growers that think it's ok to keep lights so far away from plants. You all need to read up on the inverse square law.
I dig the vertical nft btw. I thought about doing something similar a few years ago. I would suggest mounting some support lines/net in front of your pipes. That will give you something you train the plants "down" to and help encourage them to grow outwards instead of up.
I don't understand this new generation of growers that think it's ok to keep lights so far away from plants. You all need to read up on the inverse square law.
I dig the vertical nft btw. I thought about doing something similar a few years ago. I would suggest mounting some support lines/net in front of your pipes. That will give you something you train the plants "down" to and help encourage them to grow outwards instead of up.
George2324
Well-Known Member
I have a par meter. The canopy is currently 75cm from the lights and getting 800ppfd I don’t see how moving lights closer would make a difference unless plants actually know how far away lights are even though they are getting insane amounts of light
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
800ppfd really isn't insane though. I'd have to look for them, but I've read several studies over the years that closer to 1500ppfd is ideal for cannabis. Do you understand the inverse square law, the farther away you have your plants from your lights causes exponentially less light is getting to them? At 75cm you quite literally are getting 1/9th of the light that your cobs are producing.
It would seem that the sun produces well over 1500 and much closer to 2000 ppfd, so your 800 really isn't high at all.
Photosynthetic photon flux density (PPFD) measured in full sunlight (FS), under wooden slat (SL), shade cloth (CL) and trees (T) under typical clear sunny (a–c) or overcast (d–f) sky conditions in mid-summer (6–10th January 2000) in Canterbury, New Zealand
I didn't see what kind of wattage your running, but if you want a stronger phototropic response get more light on them. The other option if your afraid to get them closer, is to turn them up. Running your lights at 50% might be good for your electric bill, but its no good for growing weed.
It would seem that the sun produces well over 1500 and much closer to 2000 ppfd, so your 800 really isn't high at all.
Photosynthetic photon flux density (PPFD) measured in full sunlight (FS), under wooden slat (SL), shade cloth (CL) and trees (T) under typical clear sunny (a–c) or overcast (d–f) sky conditions in mid-summer (6–10th January 2000) in Canterbury, New Zealand
I didn't see what kind of wattage your running, but if you want a stronger phototropic response get more light on them. The other option if your afraid to get them closer, is to turn them up. Running your lights at 50% might be good for your electric bill, but its no good for growing weed.
George2324
Well-Known Member
Your analysis of that data is flawed though. Max ppfd of around 2000 was only at peak noon for an hour. The average ppfd would be more like 800-1000.
If I moved my cobs closer and gave them 1600 ppfd that would be 1600ppfd for 12 hours straight which would be nearly double the amount of light output by the sun over the course of the day, which would almost cirtainly cause light bleaching
And inverse square law doesn’t really apply to multiple light sources hence how I have 800 ppfd at nearly a meter away from the cobs. I’m using 60w per square foot with 50% efficiency
If I moved my cobs closer and gave them 1600 ppfd that would be 1600ppfd for 12 hours straight which would be nearly double the amount of light output by the sun over the course of the day, which would almost cirtainly cause light bleaching
And inverse square law doesn’t really apply to multiple light sources hence how I have 800 ppfd at nearly a meter away from the cobs. I’m using 60w per square foot with 50% efficiency
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Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Actually I didn't analyze it wrong the data shows a peak of roughly 2k. With 6 full hours over 1500 and only 2-2.5 hours in the morning or night under 1k. With a rough calculation of the average of those charts, your looking at 1600 ppfd from the sun . Obviously without having precise hourly numbers I can't be exact, but I simply isolated the 12hours in the middle and carefully used a straight edge to try to estimate the correct values. Even if I was off a little the average is still WAAAY over 1000 ppfd.
Inverse square law still applies sorry you can't change basic science. You can treat each diode alone or together as a single light source and the rules still apply.
I don't care what the OP or anyone does. I'm literally just sharing some lighting laws. The OP wanted more phototropic response from his plants. I offered the advice to try to mimic the sun better then you are.....
TheHarvester
Active Member
The man speaks the truth. I think the actual physics speak for it self. Your plants aren't reacting to the light, hence it isn't intense enough.
That would be the first indicator.
I have a vertical 1000 HPS and the plants angle and grow towards it. Up still, but they angle towards the light and the leaves almost for sideways.
Norwegian Fisherman
Member
Cool! I built the same system, but had too chop the plants few days in to 12/12 as my girlfriend put her foot down.
Would love to see an update on how you are doing!
Would love to see an update on how you are doing!
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
WTF kind of excuse is that? I'm not trying to be mean I promise, but how do you get plants all the way to 12/12 in a vert system, and THEN your gf puts her foot down? Either she should have been on board from the beginning or you should have told her to suck it when you were trying to flower your plants you spent time growing.
Norwegian Fisherman
Member
Not even gonna dignify that with an answer.
I was asking how the project was going, not asking for someone to tell me anything about me chopping my plants and quit growing.
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Dude don't get your panties in a bunch, I really wasn't trying to be a jerk. If you had a legit reason to quit growing I get that, I've been in tough spots. I'm saying don't blame it on your GF, unless I guess she is a shitty gf and was threatening to report you or something in which case fuck her. Otherwise she knew you were growing I assume and you let her shut you down which is sad. I'm sorry it happened to you.
Also for the record I'd love to hear from the OP what happened with his plants. But if you post on any of these forums, don't get mad when people comment to you or on your posts, its part of being on a forum....
George2324
Well-Known Member
They are starting week 6 now getting good amount of growth on them.
They ended up growing into each other so I’ve just done massive defoliation like 4 times during 12/12 so far.
For someone to say 800ppfd isn’t enough
Though.. needs to check the ppfd values of 99% of growers on here who used hps.
The tops are closer to lights now and are getting 1050ppfd At the tops.
This picture was taking last week at start of week 5
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George2324
Well-Known Member
I’ve got seedlings started in a veg room atm for the next round.
I’m gonna flower them between 6-8 inches and go for a single cola style and see what I can get.
I’ll leave them for first 3 weeks in my veg room in a normal horizontal grow and then move them to the vert room and see if that prevents them growing into each other
I’m gonna flower them between 6-8 inches and go for a single cola style and see what I can get.
I’ll leave them for first 3 weeks in my veg room in a normal horizontal grow and then move them to the vert room and see if that prevents them growing into each other
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
I wasn't trying to criticize man, just offer a reason the plants weren't reacting how you wanted or expected. Sorry if I came off rudely, I try not to but it happens online some times. It seems like they have done a good amount of growing "towards" the lights at this point. They look nice and healthy glad to see things are going well now. I definitely think with this style grow the single cola plants might suit you better so that should be cool to see.
George2324
Well-Known Member
No worries. I didn’t think you were doing anything bad pal. I just disagreed with some points you made about the 800 ppfd not being much. 90% of growers on here won’t hit 800 ppfd.
The inverse square law I can guarantee you though does apply however in my application it’s very minimal.
Inverse square law doesn’t say light is half the amount at double the distance. It’s the same amount of light just spread out from the light source.
Now if you take my setup where I have 360 cobs. Each one spreads out into each other. So my edges may lose some light due to reflection but other than that any inverse square “losses” are regained by the next plant
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Just to be clear I didn't say "800 is not much light", I said it wasn't insanely high. Hopefully you end(ed) up getting what you want from the grow.