Hazardous running 12 EB strips in series? ~240v

[Hadez411]

Hi,

Where, if any, do I add insulation in this circuit? or where might I run into issues?

I'm reading scant bits of information here and there saying people are wary of going to high voltage and tend to split their power supplies up. It's wayyyyyyyyyyyy cheaper to go with one 240W power supply over two 120W power supplies though. So I've given up on the luxury of having four 120W fixtures and I'll have two 240W light bars instead.
When is the voltage a concern and where? My plans are to make an EB strip on some sheet metal, perhaps some sections of an old aluminum ladder I have. Very, very basic and cheap. Using 220 household solid core wire to do the push-connectors. I'm planning on using adhesive heat sink tape, no lens.

 

[Hadez411]

Better to use an HLG-240H-C2100 and run two 120V 6-strip parallel circuits? Thermal runaway is something that irks me greatly. I'm not going to be constantly IR gunning my strips after a certain point, most likely will become complacent, and I don't wanna find out one circuit has been cooking itself on life hours or making uneven light. Especially with them all on a sheet of metal together, the ones in the middle will be getting a disproportionate amount of heat.

 

[Chip Green]

Thermal runaway, the "boogie man" of the DIY LED realm.

 

[Hadez411]

Thermal runaway, the "boogie man" of the DIY LED realm.

Right?

I also feel like working with a 240v system is the boogie man. What are the real risks and where? I'm asking because one of your old posts says you don't like working above 200v. I'd be wiring with household 220 solid core.

My father's a mechanical engineer and seems to think it's no big deal, but he's also never worked with these strips and is sort of lazily giving me half answers... >.<

 

[Hadez411]

I prefer constant current versions, with the EBs wired in series, precisely for that reason. I can use a HLG 240H C700 to run up to 15x 560mm EBs.... BUT, for instance, for one particular VEG area,I have that driver, with only 8 strips running at 700ma. If I ever need to expand it, I can add strip by strip , maintaining a 700ma output.

So, with this system if you're you must be outputting 300V with fifteen 20v strips in series? Any issues/precautions?

I could use an answer, I'm hovering over the BUY button on digikey.

 

[ANC]

I see you are confused between DC and AC....I'm not sure you should be working on this.

 

[Hadez411]

I see you are confused between DC and AC....I'm not sure you should be working on this.

Please elaborate. I am definitely struggling, I avoided electric circuits until I'm 30, but I'm not a moron and I'd like to learn.

Just riddle me this:

HLG-240H-C1050 running 12 EB Gen2 in series. Concerns?

Am I an idiot and people are more concerned about the AC side pulling high amperage? I see it pulling roughly 2A at 120V plus wtv inefficiencies, in order to make 240v of 1A DC.
I'm reading that "Higher voltages are more dangerous because they break down poor dielectrics faster." Does this apply to strips?

From my noob understanding, you output 240VDC into a 1a strip build with 12 strips in series. The measured voltage at each strip should be ~20VDC, no?

 

[Chip Green]

Higher voltages are more dangerous because they break down poor dielectrics faster.

This is the bigger part of it. Its really an unsubstantiated concern I have I suppose. That being said, I have a few panels that are 250v plus in series....

 

[Hadez411]

This is the bigger part of it. Its really an unsubstantiated concern I have I suppose. That being said, I have a few panels that are 250v plus in series....

OK, so that pretty much settles it then in my mind. 12 eb 560mm in series with an hlg-240h-c1050.
Pretty much doing exactly what you did, aluminum flashing and 1a strips in series. If i need to, I'll cut the light into two independent kits with one power supply and a long wire between them.

 

[Hadez411]

This is the bigger part of it. Its really an unsubstantiated concern I have I suppose. That being said, I have a few panels that are 250v plus in series....

These things fail to an open circuit right?

 

[Chip Green]

Unknown, never had one fail.....and I had some 560mm EBs running at 1400ma for months....

 

[1212ham]

Almost everyone uses low voltage drivers and strips in parallel. As softly as these diodes are driven, runaway is extremely unlikely. I don't recall anyone here ever having an issue.

There really is no such thing called "household 220 solid core". You need 18 or 20 gauge solid wire for the push connectors on the strips. It's often called bell or thermostat wire.

Good info here.....
http://ledgardener.com/diy-led-strip-build-designs-samsung-bridgelux/

 

[DangerDavez]

Almost everyone uses low voltage drivers and strips in parallel. As softly as these diodes are driven, runaway is extremely unlikely. I don't recall anyone here ever having an issue.

There really is no such thing called "household 220 solid core". You need 18 or 20 gauge solid wire for the push connectors on the strips. It's often called bell or thermostat wire.

Good info here.....
http://ledgardener.com/diy-led-strip-build-designs-samsung-bridgelux/

The thing with the EBs is that they run at 20v making them awkward to match with CV drivers.

OP, their is no issue with your proposed setup. That being said, may I suggest getting two HLG 120 1050 instead. Not only because of the lower voltage but because this give you more control if you want to mix spectrums and you aren't screwed if something goes awry.

 

[REALSTYLES]

Please elaborate. I am definitely struggling, I avoided electric circuits until I'm 30, but I'm not a moron and I'd like to learn.

Just riddle me this:

HLG-240H-C1050 running 12 EB Gen2 in series. Concerns?

Am I an idiot and people are more concerned about the AC side pulling high amperage? I see it pulling roughly 2A at 120V plus wtv inefficiencies, in order to make 240v of 1A DC.
I'm reading that "Higher voltages are more dangerous because they break down poor dielectrics faster." Does this apply to strips?

From my noob understanding, you output 240VDC into a 1a strip build with 12 strips in series. The measured voltage at each strip should be ~20VDC, no?

You'll be fine the forward voltage on that driver is rated at 241v it's cutting it close but I've been running my set up close to the max voltage for years with no problems

 

[Chip Green]

The thing with the EBs is that they run at 20v making them awkward to match with CV drivers.

Never had this issue.
Only the 480-and 600 HLGs are without a 20v.....

 

[1212ham]

No problem, pairs of strips in series on a 42v driver, and it's less wiring!
Also, the HLG-480 and 600 are available at 20V.

 

[Chip Green]

HLG-480 and 600 are available at 20V

Didn't see 480H 20 on MW data sheet, but the 600 does in fact have a 20V...after further review!
Octopart found zero results for the HLG-480H-20.

 

[1212ham]

You are right, 24v is the lowest for the 480. The 600 is also available in 12 or 15v.

 

[Hadez411]

The thing with the EBs is that they run at 20v making them awkward to match with CV drivers.

OP, their is no issue with your proposed setup. That being said, may I suggest getting two HLG 120 1050 instead. Not only because of the lower voltage but because this give you more control if you want to mix spectrums and you aren't screwed if something goes awry.

I would buy two drivers, but for this year it's gonna be plain Jane LEDs with one power supply and at 3500k, until the harvests come in and I stop going broke buying street grass.


Also, cheap is important because before these lights even come close to dieing, there will likely be 250 lm/W LEDs, if not 300, and 175 lm/W lights will be everywhere and cheap

 

[TEKNIK]

I would buy two drivers, but for this year it's gonna be plain Jane LEDs with one power supply and at 3500k, until the harvests come in and I stop going broke buying street grass.


Also, cheap is important because before these lights even come close to dieing, there will likely be 250 lm/W LEDs, if not 300, and 175 lm/W lights will be everywhere and cheap

Technology has slowed down alot. Unlikely a cheap board will be 240 lumens per watt in 2 years time, there are a few the that can still be done to increase effiency but they don't do it yet.
I really worry about the safety of some of the builds you guys do. A meanwell driver will lower voltage to suit the current output. Some of the output voltages you guys talk about are quite dangerous.