New views on PM and RH.....

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
I happened to be out with the wife yesterday. She was shopping and I went to hide in the Barnes&Noble to read the funny papers (Cannabis magazines).

HT was it's normal dumb self. Same with a few others. THEN, I picked up the GROW mag. I always had higher hopes for this one but, mainly it gives great titles with lacking content..

I was rather interested in a theory by a commercial grower on PM and RH in his piece on the topic.

He feels that his past struggles with PM are due to the dry conditions he used for years in his grows (40 -50%)! He stated his PM issues have stopped once he actually adopted the VPD chart values and raised his RH to 70% (He holds 60-70%)!

This took me off guard! I shook my head and couldn't believe this idea had merit. What did he use to justify this idea? I dove into the whole article with expectations of vague answers and lacking reason....I was wrong.

He go's on to describe in interesting detail the wax layering on leave's and the rest of the plant, and how they help with everything from light protection to infections from parasites to molds and fungal's. My mind reeled. OMG, I haven't ever considered this as deeply as this guy has. He does have a valid point on just what this wax does for the plant...Now how is he going to tie this together.

He go's on to describe how this layer is effected by heat and RH. How low RH levels reduce the plants ability to actually build this layer and how the heat levels, in our growing practice, can climb to levels that actually burn off the layer that is made (generally in the canopy and some distance below).

This all began to make hort sense! There is this layer! Wintering extracts helps the later filtering to remove them from the extract! Could this really be that simple? Have we all for years made the wrong adjustment to RH to prevent it? (Yes, he is correct in saying that some level of higher RH does inhibit growth of the spores also.) Will increasing my RH allow this wax layer to properly form and do it's part in preventing PM?

You know what? I have always had far less PM issues in my veg room over my highly controlled RH bloom room's. Not to mention that any treatment to rid the veg room of any PM break out. Was always successful and easier to complete. Single treatments with minor sanitizing worked every time!

Let me take a moment to share his Bloom room stat's
He runs his temps at a set point of 72 (You must realize this is a room average. This is where his thermostat is set)
He controls his RH by setting the upper limit at 70% and then allowing the Dehuey to do it's thing by overrunning the setting to a -5% average on the whole or down to 65% if you will.

He states that this 72 deg F works better for preservation of the (wax) layer, over a 75 deg temp set he used to use.

He says that below 60% RH is non conductive to the layer being built properly on the plant surface's. It also increases the reduction of the layer by heat exposure.

This is a major finding! This he completed over time in his commercial operation. I find that doing that in a commercial setting as ballsy! Yet it validates his theory far better and with solid weight behind his work...

I don't know about you but, I'm going out this mourning and change over on one of my bloom rooms to these setting's and give it a shot! I have had a bit of PM attempting to resurge in this one room.....It drives me nuts and I hate to sulfur burn with plants so close to finish. Luckily, I have harvested those so close and ran the burner last night. This mourning is some minor sanitizing of a few hard to reach by burner area's and I'll reset to a lower temp (bout 3 deg.) and raise the RH to the 70%..

He does warn to be watchful for bud molds and says a solid cleaned area to start with, will help prevent that and to be mindful to not carry any in by contaminated anything's.

It's worth a good solid try!

Thought I would share this guys research and discovery with you too! It actually makes solid Horticultural sense!
 

promedz

Well-Known Member
i use vpd all day.. and never ever worried about humidity in my flower room... ive never seen pm and my flower room has been high 70 rh for days... with fat buds but i see it as my air flow is so great no pm can settle on my leafs my temp i go for is also 72 damn looks like ive always been doing shit right
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
i actually bumpped into a thread one day called humidity and the lies our fathers taught us.. in that thread there is so much information on vpd and humidity
Nice one.

The guy went deeper into the actions of why this works and that the now unlimited stoma. Work far more effectively and no longer limit the plants ability to build it's natural defences against attack from surface fungal's and mold's
He actually had electron microscope pictures of now healthy stoma doing the job they are intended. Can't remember if there were closed and dried up stoma shots too......Fucking age is screwing with me...Damn BD tomorrow to....Rolled over the hump to actual "old".....61....so said my youngest son at 21 and with a year left of college..

Ya know, I should have bought that issue! I liked the article on canopy management also...
Well, tomorrow is when I get taken out to eat and drink.....I'll get one then.
 

promedz

Well-Known Member
yes That’s pretty cool having the close ups of the stomata I’ve only seen illustrations.. happy early bd and i hope when I’m 61 I can still grow And it’s not controlled my state is trying to legalize but take away all med growers permits no adult will be able to grow anything.. my card will mean nothing.. they will open 9 more dispensary’s and only have the state supply them... on top of that the edibles are going to be limited to 5 mg no shatter or co2 or any dabbing.. and they will have a team to start taking down ppls grow.. how fucking greedy can they get!
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
yes That’s pretty cool having the close ups of the stomata I’ve only seen illustrations.. happy early bd and i hope when I’m 61 I can still grow And it’s not controlled my state is trying to legalize but take away all med growers permits no adult will be able to grow anything.. my card will mean nothing.. they will open 9 more dispensary’s and only have the state supply them... on top of that the edibles are going to be limited to 5 mg no shatter or co2 or any dabbing.. and they will have a team to start taking down ppls grow.. how fucking greedy can they get!
Michigan ??. Thanks on the BD wish!
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
@promedz

I see. Michigan here. We have legal BUT, nowhere for you to buy!
Limited medical provisioning centers have lic. and open.
All temp locations about to go closed.
NO legal non medical to be sold at a medical prov.

Seed to sale lic growing only tracking....

NO provision for lic. caregivers to have their products tested and to sell to prov centers.....
Now the legal rec law has given all people to be able to grow 12 plants.....Now where do you think all that overage will go?
Like they will catch everybody and throw them in jail with new higher penalty grow laws.
All the while they say this will make our street sales go down?

Give me a fucking break!

They never wanted it legal to begin with......I can't wait to see how long it really takes to open recreational prov centers.... Hell, they over shot the medical ones by at least a year so far!

Gotta vote out the Repub. hate mongers that control the state congress...
In this state, Yeah, right.....Red headed ass clowns!
 
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Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Not super surprising to me, new gardeners in CO are surprised when they see PM on their cukes. IMO its low nightime temps and large shifts in rh from dusk til dawn.
Did the article mention anything about nightime temp differential? Or is it the author's view controlling rh through moisture content is more important?
No, he did not go into night time temp swing's...That's outside your talking. His whole point was indoor environmental control points.

Still, RH is set 24/7 (in controlled rooms) and my room temps do not vary much (night to day) except during colder months......RH was the main part of the whole piece......Plant action wise mainly....
 

SSGrower

Well-Known Member
No, he did not go into night time temp swing's...That's outside your talking. His whole point was indoor environmental control points.

Still, RH is set 24/7 (in controlled rooms) and my room temps do not vary much (night to day) except during colder months......RH was the main part of the whole piece......Plant action wise mainly....
Not specifically about outdoor. Talking about prioritizaton of issues in a poorly controlled indoor grow.

So then given if rh is to remain the same, reduced heat energy at night due to electric lights out seems to dictate moisture removal would be preferable to temperature inversion. Other factors not withstanding.
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
Not specifically about outdoor. Talking about prioritizaton of issues in a poorly controlled indoor grow.

So then given if rh is to remain the same, reduced heat energy at night due to electric lights out seems to dictate moisture removal would be preferable to temperature inversion. Other factors not withstanding.
Quite true I would agree. Especially on the "Not well controlled environment" thing...

I got the op so well insulated that she doesn't move down much at light out. Kinda frustrating for color expression but, now I'm more inclined to not care about that..
 

Dr. Who

Well-Known Member
It is my opinion that PM likes fluctuation in RH. If RH goes back and forth between low and high PM seems to show up. I think the spores spread better dry and that it grows better wet. Also pH has a lot to do with it, keep foliar feeds slightly alkaline.
Quite true.
One of the worst, out of the blue, PM attack's I've had was after a several day power outage at an old location. That RH swung like mad during that time.....The hit was all over and so fast after the power came back on....Made my head swim!

I am very impressed with the writers theory on the whole thing he brings up. I mean, botanically speaking for this plant.. His theory points are spot on...For me, it was a palm to the forehead moment.. In all these years I never took the time to think of it that way!
Goes to show you how old school conventional thought/practice, needs review by the up and coming younger, educated growers, working the commercial markets.

I was stuck in the past....This article was well written, and eye opening to me....I am rethinking my opinion on this magazine! Like I said, I liked the canopy management article too. Now I wish I had scanned the whole mag! Wonder what I missed?
The cover shows a lovely COB LED commercial op on a 2 level system... Very clean! Looks way effective... Starting to rethink my op's. Maybe the time to change one over and see how it goes....Only problem is legal # limits here.....I can't bust those...too old to sit in a cell!
 

SSGrower

Well-Known Member
Quite true.
One of the worst, out of the blue, PM attack's I've had was after a several day power outage at an old location. That RH swung like mad during that time.....The hit was all over and so fast after the power came back on....Made my head swim!

I am very impressed with the writers theory on the whole thing he brings up. I mean, botanically speaking for this plant.. His theory points are spot on...For me, it was a palm to the forehead moment.. In all these years I never took the time to think of it that way!
Goes to show you how old school conventional thought/practice, needs review by the up and coming younger, educated growers, working the commercial markets.

I was stuck in the past....This article was well written, and eye opening to me....I am rethinking my opinion on this magazine! Like I said, I liked the canopy management article too. Now I wish I had scanned the whole mag! Wonder what I missed?
The cover shows a lovely COB LED commercial op on a 2 level system... Very clean! Looks way effective... Starting to rethink my op's. Maybe the time to change one over and see how it goes....Only problem is legal # limits here.....I can't bust those...too old to sit in a cell!
Evolve or go extinct!
Old dogs CAN learn new tricks.
 

vostok

Well-Known Member
My Vdp shit dropped 5 years ago

as I noticed a slight increase in plant activity and corresponding RH

once neem oil was applied to the fan leaves

been doing it years only noticed now as the extracts were off ....lol

ps Bleed for the cause you tight wad!

buy the mag and post the pics ..lol

cheers/
 
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