Germination issues, please help!

[shiva71]

Hi guys
Im having a nightmare trying to get my seeds started, I really need help. I am clearly doing something very wrong but i cannot figure out what it is. Im doing dwc so seeds go into a rapid rooter type plug. I soak seeds in water for 24 hours then put them in wet paper towels until they crack. I soak a RR in ph 6 water and put the seed in taproot pointing down, about 5mm deep. They go under cfls in a small cab, 70°. I dont use any humidity dome type thing as the only time i had success I didnt use one. The plug gets 3 squirts with a mister of ph'd water a day, they are moist but not soggy. And thats it, they never sprout, every time.
I did think that maybe I was damaging the taproot when i was putting them in the cubes, so I wanted to let the taproot grow longer and cut the cube in half and do it that way, a bit like this https://www.growweedeasy.com/germinate but - once the taproot appears in the paper towels, thats it. I cannot ever see the taproot grow. Its as if the seeds pop and die immediately.
My seeds are 2 years old maybe older but that shouldnt result in a 0% germ rate should it? And if the seeds are dud they wouldnt pop in the first palce...?
Its incredibly frustrating. Horrible feeling that you cant even do the most basic sh!t without screwing up.
Help - please!
Cheers!

 

[GBAUTO]

I also grow in RDWC using RR's as the incubator. Same technique, soak the seeds for a day then onto wet paper towel in a warm dark space until I get a tail. I use scissors to slice open one side of the RR and then place a seedling about 1/2" down into the rooter. I just put the RR's into shot glasses under a veg light, only applying water when the RR gets a bit dry. It takes a few days for any signs of activity while the seedling grows a root system and pushes the top out of the RR.
I can only suggest that you have a bit more patience.
P.S.-what happened to the seeds that popped? Did you cut open the RR to see what's going on?

 

[shiva71]

Thanks. I've had this problem before, normally after a week I'd give up and pull the seed out and it would look exactly the same as when it went in, popped with taproot sticking out.
Your method is what I wanted to try this time. Let the taproot grow a bit just so I know it's growing, cut RR in half and carefully put seed in. But my seeds would pop, taproot sticking out a bit, but they would never grow anymore.
Seeds are 1) a DP auto which are old, 2.5 years or so and 2) auto from an outdoor grow which had a few seeds in it, again 2 years old.
Maybe I should try with new, fresh seeds straight out of the packet and see how I get on. If that doesn't work then I know 100% it's something I'm doing wrong...

 

[GBAUTO]

Sounds like it may be the seeds then. Usually, if I get a seed to germinate it will continue to grow. weird

 

[ANC]

sounds like too much water.... if your plug is wet the seedling should get by on it for a few days. It literally takes 2 weeks without water before the plant eats its own roots for water. It is not going to just fall over.
Also, just plant the seeds, stop this paper towel shit. If it doesn't germinate, let it dry out, rewater, and repeat. Not all seeds germinate with their first exposure to water, it is a protective measure against all seeds germinating in an unseasonably early rain.

 

[xtsho]

I agree ^^^ with this. Use paper towels for wiping up in the kitchen.

The more you handle the seedling the more chance for something to go wrong. Soak the seeds if you want but skip the paper towel. I've used rooters in the past. I always rinsed them out real good and soaked them in a really weak nute solution and then squeezed all the excess water out so they were just good and damp. I had success with seeds and cloning but stopped using them because they were just another expense.

 

[shiva71]

Thanks too much water is a definite possibility. I've noticed with these plugs that no water ever drips out they absorb everything. Maybe it's too wet in the cubes and the seeds are drowning.
Still doesn't explain why the taproot never seems to grow in the towels. They pop, root sticks out a little, and that's it all growth stops. Eg this popped about 3 days ago...

 

[xtsho]

That paper towel looks pretty wet. If your environment is too wet the seed can start rotting. Also roots seek water. If there is plenty available the root has no urgency to grow. I bet you're keeping thin
gs too wet. Squeeze the water out of those rapid rooters and then shake them until no more flings out. Damp is all you need. It doesn't need to be soaking wet.

It sucks when seeds don't grow. But if they're popping like that picture they should grow even if they are two year old seeds. They germinated so something is happening that is preventing them to survive and thrive. I successfully grow seeds much older than that all the time. Try less wet next time.

Good luck.

 

[shiva71]

Cheers. Im liking what people are saying. Too wet in both towels and RR is something i can work with to fix the problem.

 

[Kingrow1]

Newbees who start trying to paper towel germinate are pre destined to screw up. Soil seed water and walk away for a week - thats what your not doing and your problem so far.

Some growers seem to want to overcomplicate stupidly simple stuff, assume you are prone to this and try to keep it simple next time you germinate

 

[shiva71]

Im in DWC mate soil not an option

 

[joe9000]

pop it in a glass of water for 24-36 hrs ,when tap root shows pop in rockwool or jiffy and keep warm high 20s,works every time for me.

 

[xtsho]

Some people have great success germinating in rapid rooters by taking a piece off the side, putting the seed in the indentation/hole at the top, and covering it with the piece they took from the side. Realistically eight hours of soaking in water is enough. Any more and you're just drowning the seed. Sure it will survive but you've already re-hydrated and started the germination process after eight hours of soaking. So many people have made germinating a seed much more complicated than it needs to be. These seeds are no harder to grow than other plants. I grow a garden. Plants that I don't start ahead of time under lights get sowed directly in the garden. Cannabis is no different.

These plants came up outside on their own when days were under fifty degrees and nights were in the upper thirties end of March early April.. They were from seeds I missed in a seed run and tossed the remnants into the garden plot. No paper towel or soaking in a glass of water. Just proof that cannabis will grow and grow just fine without all the ridiculous stoner growing methods out there.

Now and a couple more that came up

This one growing under a Fir tree germinated and is growing just fine. I haven't done a slurry pH test on the soil but I'm sure it's well under 6.0. And yet still it grows.

If I have seeds germinating under these conditions and plants growing then surely you can get some to grow using rapid rooters in a controlled environment. Keep at it. But I think your issue is too much moisture. Don't keep things so wet.

Good luck.

 

[shiva71]

Ok great. With the paper towels is was putting them under a running tap until they were soaked and letting the excess drain off, ie sopping wet, not squeezing any excess out. Doing this every day.
In the cubes, i was soaking them (I'm not sure 10 mins or 2 hours makes any difference?) Giving them a good spray morning and evening.
I think i am drowning my seeds in both cases.
Great. I have a plan. Thanks guys!

 

[Kingrow1]

Im in DWC mate soil not an option

Paper towels for new bees is not an option, thats where its going all wrong. Come back to that after you master cubes

 

[coreywebster]

Ok great. With the paper towels is was putting them under a running tap until they were soaked and letting the excess drain off, ie sopping wet, not squeezing any excess out. Doing this every day.
In the cubes, i was soaking them (I'm not sure 10 mins or 2 hours makes any difference?) Giving them a good spray morning and evening.
I think i am drowning my seeds in both cases.
Great. I have a plan. Thanks guys!

If your seeds are old there is more chance for pathogens on the shell been ready to pounce when the bean cracks.
They are clearly viable or the wouldn't open.

You could try a few hour soak in h2o2 diluted ( google the dilution rate)
That will sterilise the seed.
Then you can also use a diluted h2o2 spray onto your paper towel, they don't need to be dripping wet, just moist enough so you can't see dry bits.
That will eliminate any contamination and also provide extra o2 to help against rot.

 

[Jypsy Dog]

Use unbleached coffee filters. The root hairs can't stick in them like towels, and tuff to get too wet.

 

[xtsho]

Ok great. With the paper towels is was putting them under a running tap until they were soaked and letting the excess drain off, ie sopping wet, not squeezing any excess out. Doing this every day.
In the cubes, i was soaking them (I'm not sure 10 mins or 2 hours makes any difference?) Giving them a good spray morning and evening.
I think i am drowning my seeds in both cases.
Great. I have a plan. Thanks guys!

Yes I think you are keeping things too wet. Your solution could be as simple as squeezing more water out. Sometimes the solution is the easiest one. In your case less moisture could very well be the answer.

If you were in the neighborhood I'd help you out with seeds.

I hope you get things sorted out. I've had seeds not make it and it sucks. Usually it's some seeds that I really want to make it but are really old as in ten years or more and not preserved properly.


Hopefully you get things figured out.

 

[SheeshM]

Try skipping soaking the seed and the paper towels. I put my rapid rooters in a small propagation box with the vents open and put the prop tray on a heating pad set to low. Add a little perlite in the prop tray and some water. The RR should soak up a little water and help it stay moist. Consider a warmer environment too. Use a heating pad or put the seeds on top of the fridge or a computer to keep them warmer. I've also ready that h2o2 is good for older seeds, like @coreywebster says.

 

[shiva71]

Thanks guys very much appreciate the input.
What about lights, should the cubes with seeds inside be under cfls or should they be in darkness?