oldbeancounter
Well-Known Member
do you find much difference-shorter-smelly-frosty etc(if of course you grew these strains before without solocure?)
looks great BTW!
UV Suppliment Lighting
- Thread starter DrGreenT420
- Start date
looks great BTW!
ChiefRunningPhist
Well-Known Member
Oh just a bit of a hobby haha and I've added much technical info to my higher education science background from several ppl that have contributed here.
ROY G. BIV
That's the guy with the initials of the colors of the rainbow, haha or at least how I was taught in grade school.
Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet. Roy G. Biv
If you take any visible or PAR wavelength and divide by 119.3, the quotient will be the maximum possible effeciency for that WV. This means that you can compare WV like effeciency. Ie, 660nm ÷ 450nm = 1.46; 660nm is 1.46× more effecient to make per photon than 450nm. The longer the WV the lower the energy of emmision or more effecient per photon, and the shorter the WV, the higher the energy of emmision or less effecient per photon.
Example A:
660nm
660 ÷ 119.3
=
5.53μmol/j maximum effeciency
Example B:
450nm
450nm ÷ 119.3
=
3.77μmol/j maximum effeciency
WV proportionality & effeciency proportionailty are the same:
5.53μmol/j ÷ 3.77μmol/j = 1.466
660nm ÷ 450nm = 1.466
If you're trying to produce 400nm light (violet?), the best you're looking at is 3.35μmol/j. The most effecient chip in any WV I've seen to date is only 72% (450nm). If I got 55%+ in violet, or 380nm-405nm is what I'm guessing violet is, I'd be pretty happy. They typically give <450nm intensity measurements in mW, and because [Volts × Amps] = Watts, it's easy to divide the mW output by the product of the [current & voltage] found on the data sheet to surmise effeciency.
The smaller WV you go, or the closer you get to the end of ROY G. BIV, the less physically effecient it is to make. A violet photon is high energy, so ideally you'd need more initial energy to make it than green or any other random color. Effeciency is ultimately limited by the laws of physics and WV of emmision.
I wish I could tell you which chips are the best for violet, but I'm still trying to find the best myself. I started a thread titled "Most effecienct chips" but have yet to post a relevant chip in 400nm :/ I'd point you in the direction of Nichia, but there are some Korean chip manufacturers that are pretty good in the shorter WV range. Perhaps look into Seoul Viosys.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/most-effecient-chips.988290/
EDIT:
Oh, was going to add the suggestion of swapping the outer 3k & R/B strips so that it went (left to right) R/B, 3k, R/B, 3k, R/B, 3k, R/B, but just a suggestion, I like even distributions, but I'm probably just OCD
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oldbeancounter
Well-Known Member
I must do some reading before I can even begin to respond to your very helpful post,Oh just a bit of a hobby haha and I've added much technical info to my higher education science background from several ppl that have contributed here.
ROY G. BIV
That's the guy with the initials of the colors of the rainbow, haha or at least how I was taught in grade school.
Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet. Roy G. Biv
If you take any visible or PAR wavelength and divide by 119.3, the quotient will be the maximum possible effeciency for that WV. This means that you can compare WV like effeciency. Ie, 660nm ÷ 450nm = 1.46; 660nm is 1.46× more effecient to make per photon than 450nm. The longer the WV the lower the energy of emmision or more effecient per photon, and the shorter the WV, the higher the energy of emmision or less effecient per photon.
Example A:
660nm
660 ÷ 119.3
=
5.53μmol/j maximum effeciency
Example B:
450nm
450nm ÷ 119.3
=
3.77μmol/j maximum effeciency
WV proportionality & effeciency proportionailty are the same:
5.53μmol/j ÷ 3.77μmol/j = 1.466
660nm ÷ 450nm = 1.466
If you're trying to produce 400nm light (violet?), the best you're looking at is 3.35μmol/j. The most effecient chip in any WV I've seen to date is only 72% (450nm). If I got 55%+ in violet, or 380nm-405nm is what I'm guessing violet is, I'd be pretty happy. They typically give <450nm intensity measurements in mW, and because [Volts × Amps] = Watts, it's easy to divide the mW output by the product of the [current & voltage] found on the data sheet to surmise effeciency.
The smaller WV you go, or the closer you get to the end of ROY G. BIV, the less physically effecient it is to make. A violet photon is high energy, so ideally you'd need more initial energy to make it than green or any other random color. Effeciency is ultimately limited by the laws of physics and WV of emmision.
I wish I could tell you which chips are the best for violet, but I'm still trying to find the best myself. I started a thread titled "Most effecienct chips" but have yet to post a relevant chip in 400nm :/ I'd point you in the direction of Nichia, but there are some Korean chip manufacturers that are pretty good in the shorter WV range. Perhaps look into Seoul Viosys.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/most-effecient-chips.988290/
EDIT:
Oh, was going to add the suggestion of swapping the outer 3k & R/B strips so that it went (left to right) R/B, 3k, R/B, 3k, R/B, 3k, R/B, but just a suggestion, I like even distributions, but I'm probably just OCD
thank you very much the light parts being relocated does make sense.
I will educate myself more regarding the information you have be kind enough to share with me I can't begin to reply right now through red eyes lol
oldbeancounter
Well-Known Member
Thing is I have 14 if the 5000k to use up in two light's.Oh just a bit of a hobby haha and I've added much technical info to my higher education science background from several ppl that have contributed here.
ROY G. BIV
That's the guy with the initials of the colors of the rainbow, haha or at least how I was taught in grade school.
Red, Orange, Yellow, Green, Blue, Indigo, Violet. Roy G. Biv
If you take any visible or PAR wavelength and divide by 119.3, the quotient will be the maximum possible effeciency for that WV. This means that you can compare WV like effeciency. Ie, 660nm ÷ 450nm = 1.46; 660nm is 1.46× more effecient to make per photon than 450nm. The longer the WV the lower the energy of emmision or more effecient per photon, and the shorter the WV, the higher the energy of emmision or less effecient per photon.
Example A:
660nm
660 ÷ 119.3
=
5.53μmol/j maximum effeciency
Example B:
450nm
450nm ÷ 119.3
=
3.77μmol/j maximum effeciency
WV proportionality & effeciency proportionailty are the same:
5.53μmol/j ÷ 3.77μmol/j = 1.466
660nm ÷ 450nm = 1.466
If you're trying to produce 400nm light (violet?), the best you're looking at is 3.35μmol/j. The most effecient chip in any WV I've seen to date is only 72% (450nm). If I got 55%+ in violet, or 380nm-405nm is what I'm guessing violet is, I'd be pretty happy. They typically give <450nm intensity measurements in mW, and because [Volts × Amps] = Watts, it's easy to divide the mW output by the product of the [current & voltage] found on the data sheet to surmise effeciency.
The smaller WV you go, or the closer you get to the end of ROY G. BIV, the less physically effecient it is to make. A violet photon is high energy, so ideally you'd need more initial energy to make it than green or any other random color. Effeciency is ultimately limited by the laws of physics and WV of emmision.
I wish I could tell you which chips are the best for violet, but I'm still trying to find the best myself. I started a thread titled "Most effecienct chips" but have yet to post a relevant chip in 400nm :/ I'd point you in the direction of Nichia, but there are some Korean chip manufacturers that are pretty good in the shorter WV range. Perhaps look into Seoul Viosys.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/most-effecient-chips.988290/
EDIT:
Oh, was going to add the suggestion of swapping the outer 3k & R/B strips so that it went (left to right) R/B, 3k, R/B, 3k, R/B, 3k, R/B, but just a suggestion, I like even distributions, but I'm probably just OCD
They may dimmed down very low or up high all depends on whats under it.
I also have 6-QB 288 v-2 drive by meanwell HGL-320 C-1750A drivers
I may be fitting them in somehow.
the are width 8 inches by 35 inches long
That is why went heavy on 5000k as have tones of 3000k
Once I have heatsinks I will know size of angle or C channel to order.
Once I selection parts will draft up a rough sketch and go from there.
Thank you for your input
It makes very good sense to me.
Gotta check out that Godzilla light you are building!
nachooo
Well-Known Member
Just being nostalgic.. I can remember when I was a young man in 1994. I was attending an international meeting in Spain about psychedelics and chamanism...and I remember that one of the speakers that looked like an old hippy man..(well then I look also as a young hippy ) and he started to talk about something I have never thought… The UVB and THC and the relationship with geographical locations of cannabis varieties.. he was the famous David W. Pate... just memories I want to share
) and he started to talk about something I have never thought… The UVB and THC and the relationship with geographical locations of cannabis varieties.. he was the famous David W. Pate... just memories I want to share
nachooo
Well-Known Member
Hard science...but very hard….
https://books.google.es/books?id=S8LdnstG5G4C&printsec=frontcover&hl=es#v=onepage&q&f=false
https://books.google.es/books?id=S8LdnstG5G4C&printsec=frontcover&hl=es#v=onepage&q&f=false
nachooo
Well-Known Member
More crazy ideas using a fluoro arcadia dragon 14% uvb 28 % uva and the rest visible light …
Sure that some of us someday have had a classical accident and suddencly a male appears and makes lot of seeds...seeds that will be probably polyhybrids..and who knows what to expect from them…
Well maybe we can do a massive seed selection… just preparing a large pot long as the arcadia tube... put the pot under the arcadia tuve, plant lot of seeds along the tube..maybe 200 for example ..let them germinate all together under the lighting tuve, close to the tube, maybe 10 cm...a very big continuous dose of UVB and UVA for such little seedlings when they sprout… probably 99% will die..but those that survive...those will be seeds with an special genetical resistence to UVB light...and maybe...they will be great THC producers….what do you think?
Sure that some of us someday have had a classical accident and suddencly a male appears and makes lot of seeds...seeds that will be probably polyhybrids..and who knows what to expect from them…
Well maybe we can do a massive seed selection… just preparing a large pot long as the arcadia tube... put the pot under the arcadia tuve, plant lot of seeds along the tube..maybe 200 for example ..let them germinate all together under the lighting tuve, close to the tube, maybe 10 cm...a very big continuous dose of UVB and UVA for such little seedlings when they sprout… probably 99% will die..but those that survive...those will be seeds with an special genetical resistence to UVB light...and maybe...they will be great THC producers….what do you think?
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
If you kept doing it for multiple generations, you might find plants with a higher tolerance to UV light, but what would be the point of the exercise?
nachooo
Well-Known Member
Plants with high tolerance to uvb probably produce more THC...just a theory
oldbeancounter
Well-Known Member
oh, ok, my bad
complicated stuff for sure
those IR 800nm rapid LED diodes look interesting any view on that?
I get the whole VPD but what if you could heat just your plant and not the air like radiated heat does.
That changes everything no?
What if ambient air temp of 72 degrees but with IR good quality LED ceramic diodes nailing the leaves warming em up making them perspire like it is 85 degree in Jamaica (of course proper humidity level to suit this would need to be established). Just a thought, I think there is a lot to wave lengths we cant see, bees can though one of them, it's called a nectar “bulls-eyes” , they use UV light to help find flower nectar , they can't see red!
We do not know everything.
Plants do more than is known.
complicated stuff for sure
those IR 800nm rapid LED diodes look interesting any view on that?
I get the whole VPD but what if you could heat just your plant and not the air like radiated heat does.
That changes everything no?
What if ambient air temp of 72 degrees but with IR good quality LED ceramic diodes nailing the leaves warming em up making them perspire like it is 85 degree in Jamaica (of course proper humidity level to suit this would need to be established). Just a thought, I think there is a lot to wave lengths we cant see, bees can though one of them, it's called a nectar “bulls-eyes” , they use UV light to help find flower nectar , they can't see red!
We do not know everything.
Plants do more than is known.
oldbeancounter
Well-Known Member
Of course they do!
Find untouched land race strains that evolved on truly high altitude mountain's sides you might have a chance but still they will most likely die as they will just cook like a steak on BBQ and dry up and die with a real bad sunburn lol
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
This has been my theory aswell. But remember IR not only heats the plant, it also affects how it grows and will lead to a lot of stretch if you overdo it. My theory is that the plant need to feel a little IR to increase metabolism, but i think taking your plant from 72 to 85F using only IR youre going to have very stretchy growth and buds getting less dense. Just like with HPS. Maybe try 80ish F ambient and raise a couple degrees with IR, sounds like a better compromise.
Cutter have good deals on IR if you can get a hold of them. Think i payed about a tenner for foot strip w 3 diodes.
Rocket Soul
Well-Known Member
Also, led is not the only way, you can also try ceramic infrared emitters. But again, this thread is on uv and not ir.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
Light, also 800nm, gets converted into heat as soon as it hits a surface. One part is reflected the other part gets converted. Therefor light of any wavelength feel warm.. also blue light. So if you use 800nm which is almost pure heat radiation already you warm up of course the whole tent, incl. plants, air and so on.
Actually we use LED's to reduce this useless wavelength. And when you want higher leaf temps you can just reduce the exaust fan and the temps will go up for free.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
But don't forget!
With higher ambient temps you need higher relative humidity too otherwise you'll get a too high VPD which can cause issues with the nutrient uptake.
With higher ambient temps you need higher relative humidity too otherwise you'll get a too high VPD which can cause issues with the nutrient uptake.
oldbeancounter
Well-Known Member
oh crap really? ok
thanks
have you seen my light build post
I made an error and bought to many 5000k can you have a look and see if you think it would, work?
I also am not sure what each diode can handle for wattage as the strips I got have very low density to allow close placement to plants as everything will be run very low watts.
link
https://www.rollitup.org/t/horticultural-veg-light-build-lost-stumped-i-need-advice-come-on-in.990106/#post-14916036
ignore that attached pdf I added it by mistake but link to light build is right. Samsung Lmb301
how many watts is max one diode I thought it was .2 watts per diode?
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nachooo
Well-Known Member
This is an interesting device regarding IR :https://www.arcadiareptile.com/heat-projector/
at some point they said that black ceramic opaque infrared reptile lamps are not the good for provide this radiation...sadly I bought 2 of those last year for experiments in the cold Winter...
SSGrower
Well-Known Member
IIRC, the source inside the ceramic units is somewhere in the 700nm range, but by insulating the ceramic converts it to longer less easily utilized wavelengths.
Not that this helps your situation any, I don't see it reasonable (or going well at all) to open them up.
Randomblame
Well-Known Member
LM301b is a midpower diode, typ. 0,5w max. or 200mA.
XP-E2 is called a 3w diode and max. is 1000mA.
XP-G and XP-G2 are 5w diodes, 1,5A max. and XP-G3's are 6w diodes, 2A max. but all XP-G's are only available in white and royal blue. Only XP-E, XP-E2 and XQ-R are available in different wavelength and colors.
XP-E2 is the latest and brightest generation and should be in the same range like Osram's Oslon series(depends on the wavelength, Cree's royal blue is brighter than Osrams, therefor the hyperred Osrams have higher binnings like Cree's photored.
I'll add you the latest datasheet of the XP-E2's below.
The efficiency numbers(lm/W or mW/W) in the datasheets are taken at 350mA.
All colors have different voltage depending on the semiconductor used to create the light
White XP-E2 have 2,9-3,25v (350-1000mA)
Blue has 3,1-3,5v
Green has 3,2-3,8v(worst efficiency)
Red has 2,2-2,6v
Photored 2,05-2,5v(photored is the same as deep-red and same as hyper-red with Osram diodes, it's only another name) and
Far-red has 1,85-2,4v.
The lower the voltage the more efficient the diodes. Below is the datasheet for XP-E2, make sure you order the brightest binnings. For photored XP-E2 that's D01 for instance...
I would not create an outer ring with deep red diodes. Better create 2 or 4 rows and distribute them evenly to get even coverage of every wavelength.
If you realize the drawing like it is the plants on the outside would get lots of deep red but less white and the plants in the center would get only a bit deep red light but lots of white light. Best is to figure at 1st out the optimal distribution for each type of diodes/strips/boards alone, then make compromises here and there to get them all mounted on the fixture.
I would cut the heat sinks of the red diodes to the same length like the 5k strip heat sinks, then mount them alternating.
Like this..
5k, 660nm, (Solacures), 660nm, 5k strips (Boards) 5k strips, 660nm, (Solacures), 660nm, 5k.
Each type of diodes mounted to a heat sink with the same length to mount them alternating on the frame.
You want white, deepred and UV mixed up properly or at least as good as possible. The hanging height of the fixture is maybe between 1 and 2' and you don't want zones where the plants behave different. Worst case...the plants under the coolwhite/UV area stay shorter and the plants under 3k/660nm stretch out more like the other plants.
With boards in the center and 5k and UV on both sides it is already suboptimal.
Additional 660nm cause usually a color shift of 500-1000°k depending on how much you use. 80% 4k + 20% deepred means ~3500°k, 75% 4k + 25% 660nm is already ~3250°k. You should have used 3500°k with 660nm to get ~3000k across the whole area.
3k has still enough blue(10-12%) for healthy and compact growth and you could use 4 additional 5k strips on a separate driver to use them in the first few weeks. For the germinating stage for instance or just to mix them with the 3k light to add more blue light for the vegetative stage and dimm 3k more down.
You could also use all the current 5k strips as sidelights and get 3500 or 4000k strips to mix them with 660nm and UV. Sidelight is very efficienct and coolwhite sidelight hitting the stems would cause extremely short nodial spacings but lots of nodes and strong twigs. And if you also use it in the flowering stage it would improve yield because you get much less larf with sidelights. Instead of 500w from above you could use 200w vertical sidelight and 300w horizontal top light. Less stress for the plants because over all intensity is lower but plants can use the light more efficiently and you end up with a higher g/w ratio and better yields.
Such a configuration can be used for veg and bloom stage, no need for separate rooms. You only need a small extra tent to create enough cuttings. Veg them 1-3weeks with sidelight only then switch to 12/12h and use all lights available. No repotting in between. Just SOG technique with lots of plants but short veg! Much more productive as to veg a plant for 6-10 weeks to fill the whole screen. 6 runs per anno instead of only 3 or 4 means 50-100% more yield per year and you would probably also save some energy because most of the time the lights run only for 12h per day. Veg with a gas lantern routine(12h +1-2h at night) and you save even more juice.
Its simply a lot faster to grow cuttings SOG style. With fast growing sativas you can root them and flower them immediately with no veg and plants will still end up 60-80cm high. With 25 plants per 1m² means 500-600g within 8 weeks. Cuttings are also up to a week faster like seed based plants.
I would only grow big plants when the local laws allow only a certain amount of plants. If there is no plant limit and you want the highest yields possible there is no faster way than SOG with cuttings.
The genetic age of a plant has also a huge effect on its potency. If you lab test 2 plants of the same strain, one grown 12/12 from seed and the other a cutting of a 1year old mother also grown 12/12 which one you think will have more THC?
Believe me, there is a reason why pro's in the netherlands strictly use cuttings and grow SOG style!
Can you buy cuttings locally? If yes, ask the seller for his oldest and most potent genetic. Usually they keep their genetic as long as they can keep them healthy. Cuttings of a 2 or 3 years old GG#4, Bruce Banner or GSC genetic would make you for sure happy and in the end you also get a better price for a better endproduct. And usually you pay less for cuttings..
We here need to do it themself but you guys in the US(at least a few) can buy cuttings directly. GG#4 is actually only available as cutting and all seeds you can get are either crossed with other strains or feminized but none of them will give you a real GG#4 plant. Same goes for instance for Trainwreck! Its was a cuttings from the Arcarta crew and all the seeds you can get today have not much to do with the true Trainwreck genetic.
@Moflow has a 10 years old SensiStar clone and you need only to see the dry buds and know immediately what I'm talking about.
Yeah, Mo, thats a picture request.. ..once again, lol!
Frank Cannon
Well-Known Member
Nice work RB