dabbindylan
Well-Known Member
what is the best way to isolate cbd/cbn can you degrade thc into cbd/cbn then fraction or isolate that? i know uv can degrade thc into cbn. any info is relevant to me
thank you
thank you
CBD/CBN isolation
- Thread starter dabbindylan
- Start date
macsnax
Well-Known Member
There's a pretty big misconception that thc will degrade into cbd, it does not. It will degrade into cbn. Cbd and cbn are two completly different compounds. You can over ripen your buds to get your cbn, or make edibles and decarb the bud for about 12 hours. If you want cbd look to cbd cultivars, or there's a ton cbd on the market, I use CBdistillery.
macsnax
Well-Known Member
I couldn't tell ya, but you may be right.
macsnax
Well-Known Member
Very interesting, cbd degrading is a topic that I've never seen. Love learning shit like this.
Chris Edward
Well-Known Member
Does anyone have references to research papers that show how a non-psychoactive substance like CBD can magically become psychoactive with the simple application of some UV light and heat?
Oxidation isn't going to do this...
Plus that would mean plants grown outdoors, or indoors with supplemental UV light would have all of their THCA and CBDA transmogrified into CBNA by harvest time and that doesn’t happen...
If that were the case, do you think the U.S. government would have legalized hemp and CBD while continuing to keep THC illegal?
It’s not illegal to leave your CBD out in the sun or otherwise artificially oxidize it, which is something I would think they would have been abundantly clear about.
Plus, if CBD could be turned into CBN, don’t you think the cannabis industry in the US would have pivoted to that direction many, many months prior to the legalization of hemp, like they did with CBD when it became plausible that hemp would be legalized in January 2019?
And wouldn’t the market now be flooded with both CBD and CBN products?
After all CBN is not listed as a controlled substance, and legally speaking CBN doesn’t quite fit into the classification of an analog of THC, so even if you were busted with it, you couldn’t be prosecuted for it, because there is no law for it…
All of this of course is the law taken at face value, which is EXACTLY how it is applied, right?
So this would be a very huge gray area that I am sure lots of greedy people would love to take advantage of!!!
Think about it…
It just doesn’t make sense...
I have read papers about THCA oxidizing into the more cerebral and mellow CBNA, by several different ways, but both THCA and CBNA are psychoactive, well the acid forms aren't but the THC9 and CBN9 forms are psychoactive.
But I have not been able to find any papers that show how CBD can be magically turned into CBN…
Oxidation isn't going to do this...
Plus that would mean plants grown outdoors, or indoors with supplemental UV light would have all of their THCA and CBDA transmogrified into CBNA by harvest time and that doesn’t happen...
If that were the case, do you think the U.S. government would have legalized hemp and CBD while continuing to keep THC illegal?
It’s not illegal to leave your CBD out in the sun or otherwise artificially oxidize it, which is something I would think they would have been abundantly clear about.
Plus, if CBD could be turned into CBN, don’t you think the cannabis industry in the US would have pivoted to that direction many, many months prior to the legalization of hemp, like they did with CBD when it became plausible that hemp would be legalized in January 2019?
And wouldn’t the market now be flooded with both CBD and CBN products?
After all CBN is not listed as a controlled substance, and legally speaking CBN doesn’t quite fit into the classification of an analog of THC, so even if you were busted with it, you couldn’t be prosecuted for it, because there is no law for it…
All of this of course is the law taken at face value, which is EXACTLY how it is applied, right?
So this would be a very huge gray area that I am sure lots of greedy people would love to take advantage of!!!
Think about it…
It just doesn’t make sense...
I have read papers about THCA oxidizing into the more cerebral and mellow CBNA, by several different ways, but both THCA and CBNA are psychoactive, well the acid forms aren't but the THC9 and CBN9 forms are psychoactive.
But I have not been able to find any papers that show how CBD can be magically turned into CBN…
Fadedawg
Well-Known Member
Here is a copy of Sweet Mary's Charm's III, regarding cannabinoid synthesis. I'll look for the paper on cannabinoid pathways.
3.9 Sweet Mary’s Charms III
Another thank you to Dr. Justin Fischedick for the pile-o-papers and studies, in support of my quest to solve the CBN riddle, and the study done by Rak K. Rasdan titled "The Total Synthesis of Cannabinoids". Published by the Department of Chemistry, Carlton University’s “Total Synthesis of Natural Products. Available on line at:
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...78.ch2/summary
Also (thank you SkyHighler) at:
Link to a free download via Library Genius (click on 'GET')
https://libgen.io/scimag/ads.php?doi=10.1002/9780470129678.ch2&downloadname=
Link won't open?
1. Click on the link.
2. Click into address bar and use backspace to remove the s from https.
3. Click on the reload page icon or hit enter.
Hee, hee, hee, snicker, snark snort, this paper reviews multiple processes for producing the cannabinoids out of other readily available terpenes.
Not just the d9-THC and CBD that has the rapt attention of the populous, but some that are harder to acquire in large quantities and which have their own medicinal properties.
What a boon to cannabis medical research!!!
Here is a taste:
The Total Synthesis of Cannabinoids
by
Rajk. Razdan
SISA Incorporated, Cambridge, Mass
1. Introduction
2. Strategy in the Synthesis of (-)=d1-THC and their Metagolites
A. Synthesis of t1 and t6 THCs
B. Synthesis of cis-THCs
C. Metabolites of Tetrahydrocannabinols
D. Metabolites Functionalized in the Alicyclic Ring
E. Metabolites Functionalized in the Aromatic Ring
3. Synthesis of Otyher THCs and Related Cannabinoids
A. "Unnatural" THCs
B. Cannabidiols
C. Cammabinols
D. Cannabinoid Acids
E. Cannabigerol
F. Cannabichromene
G. Cannabicyclol
H. Novel Cannabinoids
4. New Cannabinoid Transformations
A. Photochemical
B. cis-+trans Conversion
C. Pyrolysis
5. Synthesis of THC Analogs
A. Carbocyclic Analogs
B Heterocyclic Analogs
6. Overall Structure-Activity Relationships in Cannabinoids
7. Therapeutic Indications and Potential of New Drugs from Cannabinoids
Chris Edward
Well-Known Member
@Fadedawg,
I appreciate the offering, however...
The first link is for a paper that costs $42.
The second link, which I am assuming is a free version of the first link will not open, even after the trick of removing the "s" is applied.
I am assuming chapters 3.C and 4 are the ones you were referencing?
However I am not going to spend $42 on a paper that "may" have a paragraph or two about CBN, with no specifics.
I am sorry.
Is there anyway you can upload the PDF or provide screen captures of the portions that speak about how CBN can be derived from CBD?
I am not trying to be a pain, I am genuinely curious.
If it can be done, given its very gray area of legality (unlike THC analogs, which are treated as bad or worse than cocaine), I am very surprised it hasn't already been exploited to death by a money hungry cannabis industry.
Just saying...
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
Chris Edward
Well-Known Member
@Fadedawg,
I stand corrected, the PDF did download, that's what I get for having a messy desktop...
Ok, so I checked chapters 3.C as well as chapter 4, and all the references there say the CBN is created via THC.
I also searched the document for references to CBD and there are a few references to abnormal CBD being processed into Δ6 THC.
But Δ6 THC can also be produced from several non-cannabis sources as well.
I am not having much luck finding specific information about Δ6 THC produced from cannabis. Most of the research I am seeing is on it's synthesis from non cannabis sources.
This is most likely due to cannabis not providing a very large yield and so cheaper source material is used.
However what I did see in the PDF would define the synthesis of Δ6 THC as a THC-analog and regardless of it being psychoactive or not, this would be highly illegal pretty much anywhere in the world.
This is purely because of how easily it is to overdose on synthetic cannabinoids.
Then again medications like Marinol (Δ9 THC) are also synthesized, but have FDA approval...
So whatever...
Chris Edward
Well-Known Member
Chris Edward
Well-Known Member
@dabbindylan,
The simple answer to your question is that you will need to isolate the THCA, then allow the THCA isolate to age in the open air, how long it will take will depend on the conditions it is stored in.
Artificial chemical aging will effectively turn it into a classifiable analog of THC and therefore it will be even more illegal then the THCA started out.
From personal experience, if it is stored in a room that isn't air conditioned, that gets about 80F during the summer will pretty much do the trick in about 3 to 4 months, but I haven't had mine tested, this is just going by the way it makes me feel compared to typical curing.
Happy aging!
OldMedUser
Well-Known Member
I'm not so sure about that.
I'm still smoking on some OG#18 I cropped in July 2017 that has been sitting in it's jar in the mancave ever since and it doesn't make me sleepy at all. Already been over 80F in here this spring and was warm last summer too. No AC here.
It makes me really wonder if this whole 'wait for lots of amber for a stonier high' is just more bro-science. Maybe it's all up to the strain and the terpenes that it produces.
I've got some kushes going now in the search for something more sedative. I've tried waiting a good month after plants are ripe and can't seem to get much amber so don't bother anymore. Even some years old dry sift is still mostly clear/cloudy trichs.
dabbindylan
Well-Known Member
any relevant info on how to do this conversion on a commercial scale like 10 kilos at a time??? my target is cbd. as far as legality's im not concerned my question is if anyone knows a commercial way to do this conversion thca/thc to cbd/cbn within a reasonable time period.
thanks
thanks
macsnax
Well-Known Member
You're not going to be converting thc to cbd. It's not possible, two completely different compounds.
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
Exactly like Mac said, you can't convert THC into CBD, and based on these charts that got posted it doesn't appear you can convert CBD to CBN.
If you want CBD you have to grow a cultivar which is high in CBD.
macsnax
Well-Known Member
There's some really nice hemp/cbd cultivars out there these days. I was checking out hemp seeds the other day, there's a few breeders that have some nice looking flavors in cbd form. It doesn't have to be charoletes web or acdc anymore.
Thundercat
Well-Known Member
I was gifted some legal cbd hemp flowers a couple months ago. I was surprised it smelled decent, and was kinda sticky. But it just tasted like burning plant.
macsnax
Well-Known Member
Was it because it was hemp? Or not cured? I don't have experience with hemp yet, I hope there's decent flower to be had.