Anyone up for a GOOD debate?

[chuckbane]

Just wondering if anyone is up for a good debate.

No personal attacks, no ganging up, no bullshit,,, just ideas of your own

Some topics could include:

Abortion
Capital Punishment
Pubic healthcare
Welfare
Disability
Pension
Tax
Mental Healthcare/Addiction care
War
Oil
Euthanasia
Legalization of any kind of drugs

........

or anything else you can think of.

Please note,, this is a polite debate only. No Nazi's.

 

[GrowTech]

I saw a play about the death penalty recently... Personally I think we need it for some cases where there is no chance at rehabilitating the offender, but at the same time is it not even more cruel to kill someone who is obviously very mentally ill?

:\

 

[FootballFirst]

Here is one point of view.

"I think the death penalty will help eliminate bad genes from the gene pool and am all for it. Why waste resources on them for 60 some odd years? Just kill them and save everyone the trouble."

 

[chuckbane]

I always used to be pro-capital punishment,, and then when i fucked up in life and got a second chance it kind of turned my decision around. But I don't know if everyone would take that second chance and make good use of it. The other problem I found with capital punishment is that as soon as one innocent human dies from the penalty of death the whole system has failed.

 

[chuckbane]

I think we need it for some cases where there is no chance at rehabilitating the offender

what needs to be done needs to be done

but at the same time is it not even more cruel to kill someone who is obviously very mentally ill?

:\

we need to start treating people before they kill. I know we try but we need to try harder.
When a schizo kills someone who are we to say that he/she even knew what the hell was going on?
Ive seen some fucked up people. I know what drugs can even do to people and there has been many studies to link some drugs with schizophrenia.
Amphetamnine psychosis, for instance, can put someone completely out of thier mind for the rest of thier life. And that not even including people who are born into a "disease" similar to that.
These types of people need to be locked away and examined in hopes that we can maybe prevent a "next time" from happening. We need to do a better job at learning why these people do what they do. Killing someone is a very quick fix in my opinion but sometimes there is just no other option. I just think we might be using it a little "liberally" (not to be confused with the liberal or libertarian part).

 

[FootballFirst]

Some people just can't be helped. There is always going to be that 1% that needs to die. ooh, sounds cold eh?

 

[NLseeker]

The only purpose that the death penalty serves to kill those who kill. It doesn't deter murder in any way shape or form. I am pro death penalty when the crime is multiple murders. I believe the death penalty should be automatic when 5 or more witnesses are available to testify that you were a multiple murder. In these cases, appeals should be minimized to save tax dollars.
The most screwed up thing about the US court system is that lifers are serving time with people that are sentenced for less than 10 years. These populations should not serve time together. The court system basically sends common criminals to the Yale and Harvard of crime schools and expect them to be rehabilitated. Most "graduate" as better criminals than they were before or they are drug dependent.

 

[Igotdialup]

I heard, and i think its true, it costs more money to kill someone than keep them in prison , thats why I dont think they do it often.

 

[cleatis]

Here is one point of view.

"I think the death penalty will help eliminate bad genes from the gene pool and am all for it. Why waste resources on them for 60 some odd years? Just kill them and save everyone the trouble."

Who gets to decide the good and bad in the gene pool? Would you want that job?

 

[GrowTech]

That's true.

 

[cleatis]

Well, here's my trip with the death penalty. Two weeks before Christmas of 05 My brother's best friend stabbed him to death with a screwdriver; his kids live with my parents now.

I don't think the little son of a bitch should be put to death (though I do think he needs to spend a little time being someone else' bitch...) Fact of the matter is that he wanted my brother to be dead for no more than 5 minutes. This man put his feet under my family table at thanksgiving. How in the hell can I be better than he is if I want him to be dead for years? What will that make me if I wait around for years hoping every day that the asshole gets the ax?

Death penalty is outright vengeance, it is totally reactionary and doesn't solve a god damn thing.

Also there are the more common answers that we hear: what about the innocents that get executed on faulty evidence and the lies of witnesses? Would we all be so cavalier about the death penalty if we were in those shoes? Would we say that our life is worth the greater good of American justice even if we honestly didn't do it?

Another thing of it is that the guy had spent some time in prison before my family met him. He was busted for a drug charge - an otherwise harmless criminal. When he got out he knew how to fight and fight dirty (where better to learn that than in prison?) and he was exposed to other criminals - murderers who pined away about how they got busted and if they hadn't made X mistake, they would be in Mexico getting drunk and laid.

As a kid, he was the stereotypical fuck up: No dad, mom got around and he had a lot of uncles along the way. A single mom tried to make it and raise kids and they always lived in a trailer park or shitty part of town... I'm sure you get the idea.

They need to have some sort of intervention while someone can still get through to them not knee jerk, reactionary emotional pseudo justice and hard ass judges - that is killing the flies instead of the source.

 

[Igotdialup]

completely agree with that, but still it costs more to kill someone , which is kind of dumb unless its like uber mass murder like the Saddam thing.. but yeah I agree.

 

[chuckbane]

completely agree with that, but still it costs more to kill someone , which is kind of dumb unless its like uber mass murder like the Saddam thing.. but yeah I agree.

I dont know if money is as big as issue as some make it out to be. We pay taxes to remvove dangerous people from our society, you dont skimp on something like that.

I think to a point "what needs to be done needs to be done" comes into play.
Vengeance is a bad word but it is a word nonetheless. To me, keeping someone locked up in a hell-hole prison for life is "cruel and unusual punishment" but hey, i dont make the rules.

Does anyone know what the rehabilitation rate after prison is?
I personally dont know and if anyone could give me their own hypothesis with a supporting argument or an actual fact that would be great. I looked around briefly but couldnt find anything for Canada.

 

[chuckbane]

Well, here's my trip with the death penalty. Two weeks before Christmas of 05 My brother's best friend stabbed him to death with a screwdriver; his kids live with my parents now.

I don't think the little son of a bitch should be put to death (though I do think he needs to spend a little time being someone else' bitch...) Fact of the matter is that he wanted my brother to be dead for no more than 5 minutes. This man put his feet under my family table at thanksgiving. How in the hell can I be better than he is if I want him to be dead for years? What will that make me if I wait around for years hoping every day that the asshole gets the ax?

Death penalty is outright vengeance, it is totally reactionary and doesn't solve a god damn thing.

Also there are the more common answers that we hear: what about the innocents that get executed on faulty evidence and the lies of witnesses? Would we all be so cavalier about the death penalty if we were in those shoes? Would we say that our life is worth the greater good of American justice even if we honestly didn't do it?

Another thing of it is that the guy had spent some time in prison before my family met him. He was busted for a drug charge - an otherwise harmless criminal. When he got out he knew how to fight and fight dirty (where better to learn that than in prison?) and he was exposed to other criminals - murderers who pined away about how they got busted and if they hadn't made X mistake, they would be in Mexico getting drunk and laid.

As a kid, he was the stereotypical fuck up: No dad, mom got around and he had a lot of uncles along the way. A single mom tried to make it and raise kids and they always lived in a trailer park or shitty part of town... I'm sure you get the idea.

They need to have some sort of intervention while someone can still get through to them not knee jerk, reactionary emotional pseudo justice and hard ass judges - that is killing the flies instead of the source.

Yea, some people are bad apples. But thats usually because that had a hard fall off the tree.
Do they deserve death? No.
But to what point when someone keeps killing and killing do you just kill him yourself?
I mean, you can even kill in prison. Do the "less innocent" deserve to be trapped in a prison with people who will kill at the drop of a dime?

Just my thoughts

It doesn't deter murder in any way shape or form.

In fact, since Canada removed the death penalty 40 years ago or so the crime and murder rate has actually been steadily dropping!

 

[cleatis]

Yea, some people are bad apples. But thats usually because that had a hard fall off the tree.
Do they deserve death? No.
But to what point when someone keeps killing and killing do you just kill him yourself?
I mean, you can even kill in prison. Do the "less innocent" deserve to be trapped in a prison with people who will kill at the drop of a dime?

That's exactly whu I think something preventative should be done. America has a nasty habit of just reacting to everything because we seem so afraid of change or thinking ahead. We just react to everything, medically, criminally, socially; that's what our war on terrorism is all about - some knee jerk reaction fueled by reactionary emotions that conservatives feed off of.

 

[Spitzered]

The death penalty,

If you see on security video of someone gunning down a clerk there isn't much doubt.
Trial should be very quick followed by 2 bullets in the back of the head. No frills no trills. No half a million dollar taxpayer bill for long trial and either a loooonnnnggg stay on death row, or a $50,000 humane death. Bang Bang all done. Is it vengeance? I don't care, take a life pay with one, yours. It just might prevent the killer from getting out of prison and killing someone else.

Convicting someone on circumstantial evidence is different. The key thing is getting the guilty one. That is not always the case.

We have enough prisons, and the prison system is filled with non-violent drug offenses mixed with hard core killers.

 

[ccodiane]

The death penalty,

If you see on security video of someone gunning down a clerk there isn't much doubt.
Trial should be very quick followed by 2 bullets in the back of the head. No frills no trills. No half a million dollar taxpayer bill for long trial and either a loooonnnnggg stay on death row, or a $50,000 humane death. Bang Bang all done. Is it vengeance? I don't care, take a life pay with one, yours. It just might prevent the killer from getting out of prison and killing someone else.

Convicting someone on circumstantial evidence is different. The key thing is getting the guilty one. That is not always the case.

We have enough prisons, and the prison system is filled with non-violent drug offenses mixed with hard core killers.

Although hangings would eliminate the need for a janitor to be hired. We could even use hemp rope.

 

[JNup]

i did a blag about most of those topics

HERE YOU GO:

ABORTION:
Q- Should abortion remain a legal option and should parental consent be required for minors?
A- Yes on both, each person knows if they are able to bring a child into this world and be able to raise that child to their full expectations. Minors do not reach their full civil rights till the age of 18 so therefore they would need to discuss their choose over with a parental guardian and gain their consent.

CHINA:
Q- Is China a threat to the US?
A- No! No one is a threat to the US unless we choose to make them a threat.
Q- Should US impose economic sanctions on China as an incentive to improve its human rights?
A- Nope! We need to worry about our rights, they way we work, We are the United States of AMERICA not the WORLD. let china and other countries run their government. We can only "make friends" and work together with everyone.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE:
Q- Should felons who have completed their jail time, paid fines, and probation be allowed to vote?
A- YES! That is just obvious. They served their time for what they have done therefore they still have the right to vote for who they believe fits them best. Maybe their crimes were due to the wrong candidate and was placed in jail for a law passed by that candidate.
Q- Should the government invest on programs that focus more on rehabilitation than punishment to reduce the amount of incarceration?
A- Yes, if the criminals get help with whatever problem they face in life that pushes them to any crime they would be more likely not to commit that crime.

DARFUR:
Q- Should the US send American forces with or w/o the UN to Darfur?
A- No, we are part of the UN and therefor we need to work out an answer with them to help Darfur.

DEATH PENALTY:
Q- Should the death penalty remain a legal option?
A- Yes but only when the crime was a pre-meditated murder.

DEFENSE:
Q- Should the US build its missile defense shield in former Soviet states despite objections from Russia?
A- No, Russia deserves to run its nation how they need.. We must work with them to make there are no threats from them.

D.C:
Q- Should D.C become the 51st US State?
A- Yes. It should receive every right any other state deserves.

ECONOMY:
Q- Is outsourcing jobs to other countries good for America?
A- No. it is taken jobs away from our citizens. which then brings down our economy due to the lack of jobs that are available to our citizens

EDUCATION:
Q- Should the government fund school voucher programs?
A- The government should only fund all public schools. even community colleges. Public Schools should be free to its citizens
Q- Should sex education be only based on abstinence?
A- Public schools should teach SAFE SEX 1st and abstinence should only be said as the 1 safest way to not contract an STD or unwanted pregnancy.

ELECTION REFORM:
Q- Should there be restrictions on campaign contributions along with should campaigns be public funded?
A- Yes to both. the restriction is that campaigns should only be publicly financed, due to the fact that person is running for a public office.

EMINENT DOMAIN:
Q- Should the government be allowed to use eminent domain laws to take private property for non-public use?
A- No, if the property is not being used for the public then whomever owns that property must me asked and then compensated for their property.

ENERGY:
Q- Should we permit more offshore drilling to increase more domestic energy supplies?
A- We should only be drilling for energy within our boarders.
Q- Should we build nuclear energy?
A- We have no need to when there are many other energy option that are safer and better for our nation

ENVIRONMENT:
Q- Should we ratify an international environmental agreement that mandates reductions in carbon emissions?
A- We should work with the countries whom are producing carbon emissions and find and help them reduce their carbon emissions no bully them to.
Q- Should we mandate an increase in fuel efficiency in automobiles standards?
A- only within our country should we "mandate" this. an work with others to help follow.
Q- Are humans substantially responsible for global climate warming?
A- No humans are not the main reason for global warming. I believe that the world is on a repeating track.(look back in history and u will see an ice age then a global warming which built till another ice age came which then melted and not we are going through another warming) Humans are adding to this but are not the main reason

HEALTH CARE:
Q- Should all Americans have the right to government or employer subsidized basic health care?
A- Actually I believe that citizens should have a universal health care within the US. (would be payed through taxes) With a universal health care everyone will be taken care of no matter what situation
Q- Should Americans be allowed to purchase prescriptions from other countries?
A- If there was universal health care would be no need for purchasing from other countries but if needed to then yes.
Q- Are fast food restaurants responsible in any way to the obesity in America?
A- In some way yes due to the fact that cheaper foods options carry more fat and unhealthy ingredients. Keeping better standards on these foods would help some Americans but so would working out. (lol)

IMMAGRATION:
Q- Are illegal immagrates a net gain to the US economy?
A- Yes because they are still working for a US job. That company that employs them still has to pay taxes to the government and therefore still adds to our economy

IRAN:
Q- Should we use military force against Iran is Iran does not dismantle its nuclear program?
A- No its their right under their government. We must work with them so they do not become a threat.

IRAQ:
Q- Was it a mistake to attack Iraq in 2003?
A- Yes when there was no proof on any WMDs
Q- Has the war mande America safer?
A- Not at all. Because of this rediculous war we put ourselves into we have made more enemies then friends.
Q- Should we make a time table to remove our troops?
A- Yes we should start giving control to the Iraq people and keep our Mercs there to help finish training with their country and then remove our mercs

MARRIAGE:
Q- Should there be a Constintutional or Federal law that say marriage is defined by man and women?
A- No. Its not based on truely gay or not its based on the person who love/feel completes your life.
Q- Should an affair outside a marriage disqualify a candidate for public office?
A- No, an affair only shows that, the candidate is part of the real world and should be regonized as a everyday person just living their life.

MEDICAL MARIJUANA:
Q- Should marijuana be a medical option?
A- Yes, it has been proven to be way more safer then most medical option out now.
Q- Should the US stop raids against people using medical marijuana?
A- Yes and I also believe that marijuana should be regualted just like alcohol and cigarettes(also think cigarettes should be forced to be made with only tobacco leaves. NOTHING ELSE)
NATIONAL ID:
Q- Should there be a national idendification card?
A- No that goes against the right to privacy. No one should be made to annually check in with the government.

NATIONAL SERVICE:
Q- Should we institute the military draft?
A- No, Amaericans have the right to choose if they should join military or not
Q- Should gay people be allowed to serve in the military?
A- Yes they deserve every right as any other person.

RELIGION:
Q- Should government funds be given to faith based organizatioons?
A- No because religion should never be brought into government issues.
Q- Should candidates' religion be a issue while running for office?
A- No same as above.

SOCIAL SECURITY:
Q- Should social security be privitized?
A- No social security should be ran through the government to insure their citizens are protected when needed

STEM CELL:
Q- Should the government fund embryonic stem cell research?
A- Yes because it may help someone whom may need that technology.

TAXES:
Q- Should the Bush Tax Cuts be permanent?
A- No. Taxes should be low for lower class, average for middle class, and riased for upper.

WAR ON "TERROR"
Q- Should interrogation techniques which some may consider torture be a legal option?
A- No it only will make more enemies for us.
Q- Should the military detention facility in Guantanamo Bay be closed?
A- No but it should be made to follow the US rights and laws along with our interrogation techniques
Q- Has the PATRIOT ACT had a overall benefit for the US?
A- No and it should have never been made, it takes away the right to privacy

 

[FootballFirst]

i didn't read it. it's too long.

 

[chuckbane]

That's exactly whu I think something preventative should be done. America has a nasty habit of just reacting to everything because we seem so afraid of change or thinking ahead. We just react to everything, medically, criminally, socially; that's what our war on terrorism is all about - some knee jerk reaction fueled by reactionary emotions that conservatives feed off of.

the knee-jerk is becoming more and more typical of our leaders. Well said, + rep.

The death penalty,

If you see on security video of someone gunning down a clerk there isn't much doubt.
Trial should be very quick followed by 2 bullets in the back of the head. No frills no trills. No half a million dollar taxpayer bill for long trial and either a loooonnnnggg stay on death row, or a $50,000 humane death. Bang Bang all done. Is it vengeance? I don't care, take a life pay with one, yours. It just might prevent the killer from getting out of prison and killing someone else.

Convicting someone on circumstantial evidence is different. The key thing is getting the guilty one. That is not always the case.

We have enough prisons, and the prison system is filled with non-violent drug offenses mixed with hard core killers.

Saying this makes me believe you have never really fucked up in life. Good people make mistakes too. I think you are looking at only one side of the argument.
I will say "what needs to be done needs to be done" but we need a more careful examination of what was really going in in the head of a killer.

Its just too easy to put a bullet in a head.

i did a blag about most of those topics

HERE YOU GO:

ABORTION:
Q- Should abortion remain a legal option and should parental consent be required for minors?
A- Yes on both, each person knows if they are able to bring a child into this world and be able to raise that child to their full expectations. Minors do not reach their full civil rights till the age of 18 so therefore they would need to discuss their choose over with a parental guardian and gain their consent.

CHINA:
Q- Is China a threat to the US?
A- No! No one is a threat to the US unless we choose to make them a threat.
Q-Should US impose economic sanctions on China as an incentive to improve its human rights?
A- Nope! We need to worry about our rights, they way we work, We are the United States of AMERICA not the WORLD. let china and other countries run their government. We can only "make friends" and work together with everyone.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE:
Q- Should felons who have completed their jail time, paid fines, and probation be allowed to vote?
A- YES! That is just obvious. They served their time for what they have done therefore they still have the right to vote for who they believe fits them best. Maybe their crimes were due to the wrong candidate and was placed in jail for a law passed by that candidate.
Q- Should the government invest on programs that focus more on rehabilitation than punishment to reduce the amount of incarceration?
A- Yes, if the criminals get help with whatever problem they face in life that pushes them to any crime they would be more likely not to commit that crime.

DARFUR:
Q- Should the US send American forces with or w/o the UN to Darfur?
A- No, we are part of the UN and therefor we need to work out an answer with them to help Darfur.

DEATH PENALTY:
Q- Should the death penalty remain a legal option?
A- Yes but only when the crime was a pre-meditated murder.

DEFENSE:
Q- Should the US build its missile defense shield in former Soviet states despite objections from Russia?
A- No, Russia deserves to run its nation how they need.. We must work with them to make there are no threats from them.

D.C:
Q- Should D.C become the 51st US State?
A- Yes. It should receive every right any other state deserves.

ECONOMY:
Q- Is outsourcing jobs to other countries good for America?
A- No. it is taken jobs away from our citizens. which then brings down our economy due to the lack of jobs that are available to our citizens

EDUCATION:
Q- Should the government fund school voucher programs?
A- The government should only fund all public schools. even community colleges. Public Schools should be free to its citizens
Q- Should sex education be only based on abstinence?
A- Public schools should teach SAFE SEX 1st and abstinence should only be said as the 1 safest way to not contract an STD or unwanted pregnancy.

ELECTION REFORM:
Q- Should there be restrictions on campaign contributions along with should campaigns be public funded?
A- Yes to both. the restriction is that campaigns should only be publicly financed, due to the fact that person is running for a public office.

EMINENT DOMAIN:
Q- Should the government be allowed to use eminent domain laws to take private property for non-public use?
A- No, if the property is not being used for the public then whomever owns that property must me asked and then compensated for their property.

ENERGY:
Q- Should we permit more offshore drilling to increase more domestic energy supplies?
A- We should only be drilling for energy within our boarders.
Q- Should we build nuclear energy?
A- We have no need to when there are many other energy option that are safer and better for our nation

ENVIRONMENT:
Q- Should we ratify an international environmental agreement that mandates reductions in carbon emissions?
A- We should work with the countries whom are producing carbon emissions and find and help them reduce their carbon emissions no bully them to.
Q- Should we mandate an increase in fuel efficiency in automobiles standards?
A- only within our country should we "mandate" this. an work with others to help follow.
Q- Are humans substantially responsible for global climate warming?
A- No humans are not the main reason for global warming. I believe that the world is on a repeating track.(look back in history and u will see an ice age then a global warming which built till another ice age came which then melted and not we are going through another warming) Humans are adding to this but are not the main reason

HEALTH CARE:
Q- Should all Americans have the right to government or employer subsidized basic health care?
A- Actually I believe that citizens should have a universal health care within the US. (would be payed through taxes) With a universal health care everyone will be taken care of no matter what situation
Q- Should Americans be allowed to purchase prescriptions from other countries?
A- If there was universal health care would be no need for purchasing from other countries but if needed to then yes.
Q- Are fast food restaurants responsible in any way to the obesity in America?
A- In some way yes due to the fact that cheaper foods options carry more fat and unhealthy ingredients. Keeping better standards on these foods would help some Americans but so would working out. (lol)

IMMAGRATION:
Q- Are illegal immagrates a net gain to the US economy?
A- Yes because they are still working for a US job. That company that employs them still has to pay taxes to the government and therefore still adds to our economy

IRAN:
Q- Should we use military force against Iran is Iran does not dismantle its nuclear program?
A- No its their right under their government. We must work with them so they do not become a threat.

IRAQ:
Q- Was it a mistake to attack Iraq in 2003?
A- Yes when there was no proof on any WMDs
Q- Has the war mande America safer?
A- Not at all. Because of this rediculous war we put ourselves into we have made more enemies then friends.
Q- Should we make a time table to remove our troops?
A- Yes we should start giving control to the Iraq people and keep our Mercs there to help finish training with their country and then remove our mercs

MARRIAGE:
Q- Should there be a Constintutional or Federal law that say marriage is defined by man and women?
A- No. Its not based on truely gay or not its based on the person who love/feel completes your life.
Q- Should an affair outside a marriage disqualify a candidate for public office?
A- No, an affair only shows that, the candidate is part of the real world and should be regonized as a everyday person just living their life.

MEDICAL MARIJUANA:
Q- Should marijuana be a medical option?
A- Yes, it has been proven to be way more safer then most medical option out now.
Q- Should the US stop raids against people using medical marijuana?
A- Yes and I also believe that marijuana should be regualted just like alcohol and cigarettes(also think cigarettes should be forced to be made with only tobacco leaves. NOTHING ELSE)
NATIONAL ID:
Q- Should there be a national idendification card?
A- No that goes against the right to privacy. No one should be made to annually check in with the government.

NATIONAL SERVICE:
Q- Should we institute the military draft?
A- No, Amaericans have the right to choose if they should join military or not
Q- Should gay people be allowed to serve in the military?
A- Yes they deserve every right as any other person.

RELIGION:
Q- Should government funds be given to faith based organizatioons?
A- No because religion should never be brought into government issues.
Q- Should candidates' religion be a issue while running for office?
A- No same as above.

SOCIAL SECURITY:
Q- Should social security be privitized?
A- No social security should be ran through the government to insure their citizens are protected when needed

STEM CELL:
Q- Should the government fund embryonic stem cell research?
A- Yes because it may help someone whom may need that technology.

TAXES:
Q- Should the Bush Tax Cuts be permanent?
A- No. Taxes should be low for lower class, average for middle class, and riased for upper.

WAR ON "TERROR"
Q- Should interrogation techniques which some may consider torture be a legal option?
A- No it only will make more enemies for us.
Q- Should the military detention facility in Guantanamo Bay be closed?
A- No but it should be made to follow the US rights and laws along with our interrogation techniques
Q- Has the PATRIOT ACT had a overall benefit for the US?
A- No and it should have never been made, it takes away the right to privacy

i didn't read it. it's too long.

I agree, will read when i have time. which seems to be never.