Strain descriptions conundrum

[Thundercat]

Yes don't quote me on that I might be wrong about that. In my gut though something doesn't seem right keeping a mother artificially alive for 10 years. I just feel in my gut it's not a good idea. I also have problem with clones cause they do not have main tap root and are weaker generally. I have asked growers and most say growing from seed is always better. I only grow feminized seeds for now though. Don't want deal with the males pollen till I have dedicated breeding room. So I don't impregnate my female plants. And say if things ever did go to crap and there's no power keeping mothers going, is not gonna be option. I feel its also really hard on the grid to keep a mother in vegetative for years. It just seems kinda nuts.

I won't quote you because your gut is 100% wrong about all of what you typed here. Clones are exact replicas of the mother plant. Mother plants are VERY easy to keep alive, and require very little care other then trimming them back when you take more clones. I don't know what growers you've talked to but most real growers know that seeds and clones both produce excellent plants.

I currently have genetics that are 5+ years old growing, and they are just like they started out. In the past I've kept other strains for over 4 years.

I do think the genetics can degrade over time, but its not from cloning the plant or from keeping it alive for a long period. It comes from stressing or damaging the plants and weakening them in the first place. If you take clones from a weak or sick plant then the clones will likely be weakened and sickly.

 

[olaf687]

imo growing from seed is slower and thats the only difference. seedlings spend so long growing that big root system you're talking about.

sure if you wanna grow a monster. but for an indoor perpetual grow it doesn't make any sense. clone is way more efficient in my opinion.

ive never kept genetics 10 years so i'll have to get back to you on that but i have a plant thats been cloned for the past 3 years and it continues to be exactly the same, almost clonish.

also as for electricity, if you have a veg room at 20w/sq/ft it doesnt matter if u have mothers/clones or seedlings in it. it matters if ur perpetual or not. moms don't have to be huge you can train them just like other plants. a 3rd room for breeding would be much more electricity.

I'm outdoor I don't want it too big because I don't want increase of bud mold in october here in Oregon. But also heard seeds are stronger against insects and diseases. But hey you sound like you know what your doing. And I agree its hell lot cheaper taking cuttings. And do understand some phenos are hard to ever find with seeds. Seeds do have their disadvantages too so I got ya!

 

[Dr. Who]

Well yes you might be right about that. I have never grown the new ones myself. And I guess Oregon dispensaries would not be fair to judge these strains. Almost all the shit in oregon dispensaries is cut too early. So I probably just got a bad batch to really experience these strains potential. But no I have no reason to lie how many years I smoked. In fact Id much rather be a newbie and have a super low tolerance so I could get fucked like I used to back in the day. And like I said I do like Sativas in the daytime but I don't have Indicas at night I can't do sativias. Not because I can't handle the high but because they don't allow me sleep. My only problem with alot of these new strains as I feel they been cloned to death. Using cutting of mothers for too many gens causes genetic problems. That's why also want original strains preserved and breed with seeds grown males and females not clones. Start fresh basically.

Now we're talking..

Yeah, I run L-O-N-G. Longer then most......I like my plants to actually finish! This whole "counting of days" thing is stupid really. They grow differently in every different garden. I doubt anybody has the exact same environment as the breeder. People just have to get it through their heads that a breeders report is a basic generalization on time's. His interpretation of "done" can be far ranging in it's self.

Your years, I'll give that back! Your sounding much older and speaking with wisdom now - sorry to have taken that path but, it did get us here..

I understand your issues with type vs time to smoke.

I get my strains (pre sorted pheno clones, rooted) from certified source's - Lets just say that's a good term to use here.

Next point: Strains act differently to long term clone - clone - clone from one source. Yet, many have no real "change" over the years....In fact I have a Blue Berry that I have cloned for over 30 years! She is just about exactly the same as when she was first run...Other then the normal minor shift in phenotypical expression to environment (As you clone over and over. At some point the plant will make a "shift" in expression to the environment you run vs the one it was breed in. No change in potency, just a growth expression. Like more to it's Sativa or Indica side in structure.)

I have an original Chem Dog that is changing after over 25 years. Thing here is that it had a pretty bad Russet mite infection a year or so back. Major bug or disease infections can effect the genetic expression!
I feel that has come into play over any length of cloning.

STILL, the plant is as old as the mother. With each cloning, the plant is that much older! SOME strains will express a faster need to show bloom - throwing pistil's in veg. kinda thing. Node space shortens and sometimes over years and years...Smaller but very tight budding.....Still, potency is not effected enough to be felt by most smoking it...

I do retire some strains if I feel they have "shifted" too far for me.....

I feel that strains closer to the original landrace pairings.. Last longer in this manor....For now, observing the newer things I have, for this "shift" or change. Will take time!

How nice to find someone to have civil discussions with! +rep!

Does it though? I mean there's folks running clones from the 70s.

EXACTLY!

 

[olaf687]

Now we're talking..

Yeah, I run L-O-N-G. Longer then most......I like my plants to actually finish! This whole "counting of days" thing is stupid really. They grow differently in every different garden. I doubt anybody has the exact same environment as the breeder. People just have to get it through their heads that a breeders report is a basic generalization on time's. His interpretation of "done" can be far ranging in it's self.

Your years, I'll give that back! Your sounding much older and speaking with wisdom now - sorry to have taken that path but, it did get us here..

I understand your issues with type vs time to smoke.

I get my strains (pre sorted pheno clones, rooted) from certified source's - Lets just say that's a good term to use here.

Next point: Strains act differently to long term clone - clone - clone from one source. Yet, many have no real "change" over the years....In fact I have a Blue Berry that I have cloned for over 30 years! She is just about exactly the same as when she was first run...Other then the normal minor shift in phenotypical expression to environment (As you clone over and over. At some point the plant will make a "shift" in expression to the environment you run vs the one it was breed in. No change in potency, just a growth expression. Like more to it's Sativa or Indica side in structure.)

I have an original Chem Dog that is changing after over 25 years. Thing here is that it had a pretty bad Russet mite infection a year or so back. Major bug or disease infections can effect the genetic expression!
I feel that has come into play over any length of cloning.

STILL, the plant is as old as the mother. With each cloning, the plant is that much older! SOME strains will express a faster need to show bloom - throwing pistil's in veg. kinda thing. Node space shortens and sometimes over years and years...Smaller but very tight budding.....Still, potency is not effected enough to be felt by most smoking it...

I do retire some strains if I feel they have "shifted" too far for me.....

I feel that strains closer to the original landrace pairings.. Last longer in this manor....For now, observing the newer things I have, for this "shift" or change. Will take time!

How nice to find someone to have civil discussions with! +rep! EXACTLY!

Nice man glad you give them a long flowering time! Thats some really good info on clones! Yeah it's totally cool man I try to keep my ego in check. You are way more experienced in growing than myself so I respect your wisdom. Especially keeping a mother for 30 years thats really impressive! Unfortunately I don't know anyone that has good clones like you mentioned. Sure I could get some shitty clones from the dispensary but I won't dare buy them here. I wish knew some people up here that did!

Yeah I figured the breeders were bullshitting about how many weeks to flower. I have greenhouse for the fall so I can flower them much longer. I have couple neighbors around here and they're always complaining about bud rot in october. But most of them don't have a greenhouse to cover the buds from the rain and wind. My neighbor gave me a bit his bud for free to try out... while it was better than the dispensary it still was not very potent and was still cut a bit too early. He's more about quantity over quality while, I'm more about quality over quantity. I don't see any point of having to smoke more plant material to get to what I really want the trichomes. I mean really dank weed sometimes you only have to pack a little rock hard snapper. So you use less which probably equals out to all the extra bud you had smoke for lower quality bigger yield plant.. I told him I was building a greenhouse and he said, "why"? He says, "let nature do all the work". Well yeah asshole you don't need greenhouse if you want shitty early cut weed. The guys about making money and sprays a bunch of pesticides on his buds. So trying to be better than some of these idiots around here.

I'm hoping my bud will be the best in Josephine county! Anyway man enjoy that bud your smoking, one lucky bastard!

 

[Dr. Who]

Especially keeping a mother for 30 years thats really impressive!

Actually.I simply root the things I trim from a plant, right before I bloom it...
So in reality, it's a clone, of a clone, of a clone, and so on.....