imho hydro sucks

[bdt1981]

Common OP. Say something else. Like about fem seeds vs regular and shit

Fem seeds are just as good to reg in my opinion. I have grown many a fem seed and very few reg. Hermie fem seeds is a myth in my expirence. I have had very few pollin sacs appear on fem seeds. I have heard of straight hermaphrodite plants that blast pollin sacs from the start in the same ammount as female flowers. I have never saw that myself. Mine were from light schedule getting fucked with. As far as fem having hermie genes i say just stress as little as possible and prob wont have a problem. Also pick a solid breeder. I personally used dna genetics reserva privada next generation just to name a few. I think it has to do with the breeder test running the seed batch for stability before selling them. Others may not. Tbh idk and idk. The finished product is the same from fem or reg seeds right? Or is that wrong. Weirdest thing is i bought a 10 pack of super bud from ghs and only 2 i think popped from user error and ill be damed i got a male out of the that popped in a fem 10 pack.
Got 7 bagseeds my very first grow and all 7 were female. Something i remember reading about if u want more female plants out of your reg seeds to keep veg temp under 75. Ill be dammed if i did out of some other bag seeds and got 7 or 8 female. Coiencidence? Idk. What are the issues people could possibly have with fem seeds?

 

[Dr. Who]

In my opinion if you want an easy to grow method with great results go with coco coir and organic nutes such as Dr. Earth or Gia green. For more info check out "Mr. Canucks grow" on youtube. With this method you dont have to worry about much of anything, pretty much on autopilot.


Too many cons with soil,

1. If your ph is off good luck fixing it with multiple flushes
2. It takes energy for a plant to push roots through soil
3. Over watering can destroy or hinder your plants growth
4. Soil can contain many diseases and pest such as fungus and fungus gnats
5. Lower yields compared with hydro and coco, see number 2
6. Hard to gauge or be precise with nutrients and ph
7. Roots need oxygen, Soil contains less oxygen than coir or hydro.
8. Once soil is used up thats all she wrote unlike coir

?????? Say the fuck what?

1. Soil self pH's. You don't have to pH soil, ever.
2. It takes energy to root through any solid media. REALLY?
3. It can do that in any solid media!
4. You can get the same things in any solid media.
5. I can get so close to the same yields it's not a factor. AT ALL!
6. This is absolute bull shit. Simply don't water/feed with a solution over 8 or under 5 and never have any pH issues at all...SEE #1
7. Coir, Peat, soil.....Does NOT contain oxygen on their own. O2 is imparted to roots by capillary draw actions from watering. I can get MORE O2 to my roots in soil by watering a metered amount every day. Over your coir that you water less!

8. I reuse my soil all the time! Simply recharge it and re-use it. You have to know what your doing but, it's beyond simple to learn. NOT TO MENTION that coir will hold "salt's and get build ups. You have to wash it out...
If you use synthetic's = compost it and reuse it.

Basically put. What you've written here is simply uneducated drivel! That's 46 years of doing this talking.

 

[Dr. Who]

I disagree with your use of organic when referring to nutrients. They are all organic. Man didn't start creating molecules to grow plants with, just figured out chelation.

What you are referring to specifically, is organic microbes... those are directly responsible for your differences between "salt" fertilizer and "organic" fertilizer. Most folks that run "salt" fertilizer don't run microbes... plain and simple. Try it sometime. I always use microbes, so medium doesn't matter... except when it comes to growth, but you know which takes the cake there lol.

How nice you can disagree. You can do that all you want.
I can too!

No, they are most assuredly not all organic!

You need a college Agronomy course sir.
Many synthetic nutrients are MADE from non organic sources, including hydro carbons...... You over simplify the ion thing, way too far. If what you say was correct. There would be no difference in results between synthetic results and organic results. Thing is these "results" ,, differ greatly in more ways then you know.

As for the rest of your post.......Been doing this for now over 46 years. Run a 5 farm organic co-op. Ran a yew farm for a major drug company for the making of the cancer drug Taxol that at covered sq miles. Went to school, for Ag science's, and still speak at different college Ag program's on sustainable, old world farming tech and sustainable organic farming practice..

 

[3rd Monkey]

How nice you can disagree. You can do that all you want.
I can too!

No, they are most assuredly not all organic!

You need a college Agronomy course sir.
Many synthetic nutrients are MADE from non organic sources, including hydro carbons...... You over simplify the ion thing, way too far. If what you say was correct. There would be no difference in results between synthetic results and organic results. Thing is these "results" ,, differ greatly in more ways then you know.

As for the rest of your post.......Been doing this for now over 46 years. Run a 5 farm organic co-op. Ran a yew farm for a major drug company for the making of the cancer drug Taxol that at covered sq miles. Went to school, for Ag science's, and still speak at different college Ag program's on sustainable, old world farming tech and sustainable organic farming practice..

Surely you can explain the difference between "synthetic" nutrients vs "organic" then, yea?

Just so we are all on the same page.

 

[bdt1981]

Honestly the best weed I ever grew was Grape Punch from BOG in my DWC. I’ve grown a shit load of bomb ass strains in coco, soil mixtures, peat moss, no till..
Best strains were Grape Punch in DWC and Lavender Trainwreck no till outdoor and Lemon OG x Sour D no till and Blue Dream in FFOF and coco with GH nutes.
The genetics and the environment are key plus drying properly.

I haven’t grown Hydroponically in years and been thinking of going back and pretty excited to go back. Yea checking meters sucks but it’s not rocket science. The biggest growers in the game growing the best weed are growing with giant rockwolll cubes on flood tables with salt nutes.

Fem seeds are just as good to reg in my opinion. I have grown many a fem seed and very few reg. Hermie fem seeds is a myth in my expirence. I have had very few pollin sacs appear on fem seeds. I have heard of straight hermaphrodite plants that blast pollin sacs from the start in the same ammount as female flowers. I have never saw that myself. Mine were from light schedule getting fucked with. As far as fem having hermie genes i say just stress as little as possible and prob wont have a problem. Also pick a solid breeder. I personally used dna genetics reserva privada next generation just to name a few. I think it has to do with the breeder test running the seed batch for stability before selling them. Others may not. Tbh idk and idk. The finished product is the same from fem or reg seeds right? Or is that wrong. Weirdest thing is i bought a 10 pack of super bud from ghs and only 2 i think popped from user error and ill be damed i got a male out of the that popped in a fem 10 pack.
Got 7 bagseeds my very first grow and all 7 were female. Something i remember reading about if u want more female plants out of your reg seeds to keep veg temp under 75. Ill be dammed if i did out of some other bag seeds and got 7 or 8 female. Coiencidence? Idk. What are the issues people could possibly have with fem seeds?

?????? Say the fuck what?

1. Soil self pH's. You don't have to pH soil, ever.
2. It takes energy to root through any solid media. REALLY?
3. It can do that in any solid media!
4. You can get the same things in any solid media.
5. I can get so close to the same yields it's not a factor. AT ALL!
6. This is absolute bull shit. Simply don't water/feed with a solution over 8 or under 5 and never have any pH issues at all...SEE #1
7. Coir, Peat, soil.....Does NOT contain oxygen on their own. O2 is imparted to roots by capillary draw actions from watering. I can get MORE O2 to my roots in soil by watering a metered amount every day. Over your coir that you water less!

8. I reuse my soil all the time! Simply recharge it and re-use it. You have to know what your doing but, it's beyond simple to learn. NOT TO MENTION that coir will hold "salt's and get build ups. You have to wash it out...
If you use synthetic's = compost it and reuse it.

Basically put. What you've written here is simply uneducated drivel! That's 46 years of doing this talking.

As for number 5 i disagree. How close is so close? U hit 2#s in a 5x5 with soil?

 

[3rd Monkey]

As for number 5 i disagree. How close is so close? U hit 2#s in a 5x5 with soil?

It's absolutely possible... but ask him how long it takes lol.

 

[bdt1981]

It's absolutely possible... but ask him how long it takes lol.

Right like u mean long veg right?

 

[1212ham]

But im learning some interestingly useless information about ions and such reading what u guys are talking about. Lol

I wish I had studied more when I was young and taken chemistry class!

 

[3rd Monkey]

Right like u mean long veg right?

Compared to hydro, twice the veg time. I will throw down on that too. I'm not scared to pop a bean lol.

 

[Aussieaceae]

I don't find you in particular being snobby about it. I'm referring more to how Dr. Crane types act about wine tasting. Some organic growers are zealots about it and I'm sure if they talked in person the same way they post they'd be frothing at the mouth. Like born-again non-smokers or alcoholics in AA. You just got to get away from folks like that!

When it comes to nutes and grow techniques there are so many and it does none of any good to argue about which is best but seems to be a constant subject prone to rants and raves. Each to their own I say. I do much better with hydro where some are total losers at it but can grow killer pot with organic methods which I do lousy at. I was damn good in the lab and I'm not a bad cook, (Thanks Mom!), so with hydro being all measuring and chemistry that falls into my area of expertise.




Very little sodium in animal waste and I'll attach a 1 page pdf file as I can't do a copy/paste with those. Highest is iron and aluminum of all things. The iron I can understand but Al? Na comes in as the lowest along with Mg.

I had to look up dispersive soils and it seems that's not a thing us growers need to concern ourselves with. It needs lots of sodium ions in clay-based soils to become a problem and as I mentioned before inland farmers aren't likely to encounter it in many places. Nearer bodies of salt water is where it's mostly found.

A small quote from Wikipedia

"Dispersive soils are more common in older landscapes where leaching and illuviation processes have had more time to work. A source of sodium is also required. Possible sources can include weathering from soil parent materials or wind-blown salt deposition. Sodium ions are highly mobile in the soil solution and so they accumulate in the lower parts of the landscape."



It seems I was wrong to say sodium isn't in ANY fertilizers as you are correct that it is used as a nitrogen source and approved for organic use by the US National Organic Program as you say. Learn something new every day. No sodium in any of the nutes I use or were in the bilk nutrients where I worked. It's a powerful oxidizer and used to make gunpowder.

Sounds f'ed up to me too but it's an abundant mineral in some places and I'm sure potassium nitrate would be used instead if it were as widely available. The guy I bought my house from used potassium chloride in the water softener instead of the usual sodium chloride as it was better for the garden. I put that damn thing on bypass not long after moving in and will use the 150L brine tank for RO water storage once I get one in here which might be tomorrow. Slap it on the VISA card dammit!

I'd argue there has to be sodium in animal waste. The kidneys in the animal process it. Sodium is an inherent issue using manure.

The cause of dispersion you mention is the very end result. The root cause of dispersion is a lack of healthy top soil. It's a lack of ORGANIC matter that causes it.
Fertilizer is empty, it doesn't have any water holding capacity. There needs to be an addition of organic matter. For me, this seems environmentally inefficient. Because the grower still HAS to add organic matter to their soil, otherwise it will eventually become salty. It's an unfortunate reality with fertilization. Why not add extra organic matter, instead of fertilizer?

You can only till a fertilized soil so many times, before a lack of organic matter causes soil dispersion. Not to mention that tillage itself is a contributor to soil dispersion.

Dispersive and dispersive slaking soil is all through Australia. It's a wide spread problem with Australian soil. Quite often a naturally occurring one. But in reality it's a lack of organic material and lifeless topsoil, that only makes it much worse.

Just did some digging of my own for you regarding soil dispersion. I have texts of my own too, if you need more information about it.

http://fertsmart.dairyingfortomorrow.com.au/dairy-soils-and-fertiliser-manual/chapter-7-managing-limiting-soil-factors/7-2-slaking-and-dispersion/

http://vro.agriculture.vic.gov.au/dpi/vro/vrosite.nsf/pages/soilhealth_soil_structure_dispersion

https://sesl.com.au/blog/dispersive-soils/

 

[Dr. Who]

It's absolutely possible... but ask him how long it takes lol.

Quite true!

Soil growing is longer......An actual "true" finish is, sigh,,longer than most run!

 

[Dr. Who]

Surely you can explain the difference between "synthetic" nutrients vs "organic" then, yea?

Just so we are all on the same page.

I might have to write a book size post to get the whole thing in focus...

How about you all google that up......Maybe read more about the soil food web and how synthetic nutrients are made......I mean I get the chelator part but the end result is still rather different.

UNLESS, you speak of plant ready chelated (organic chelated) nutrient. This covers most of the liquid "organic" nutrient market.....Like Age Old or G&H's organic line, etc.

Now then. That does not cover things like organic brewed nutrient tea's. These are not chelated (or at least only partially), simply a process of making a solid nutrient ready to deliver in a liquid form.

I agree that boiled down to the final end, Yes, synthetic and organic does deliver the same nutrient ion....There's just more at play with the organic....A complexity of additional things that can be present....

My solid organic nutrient source's, are far more complex then any synthetic, liquid or powdered....

 

[Dr. Who]

Compared to hydro, twice the veg time. I will throw down on that too. I'm not scared to pop a bean lol.

Longer but not anything like twice the time!

 

[OldMedUser]

I'd argue there has to be sodium in animal waste. The kidneys in the animal process it. Sodium is an inherent issue using manure.

The cause of dispersion you mention is the very end result. The root cause of dispersion is a lack of healthy top soil. It's a lack of ORGANIC matter that causes it.
Fertilizer is empty, it doesn't have any water holding capacity. There needs to be an addition of organic matter. For me, this seems environmentally inefficient. Because the grower still HAS to add organic matter to their soil, otherwise it will eventually become salty. It's an unfortunate reality with fertilization. Why not add extra organic matter, instead of fertilizer?

You can only till a fertilized soil so many times, before a lack of organic matter causes soil dispersion. Not to mention that tillage itself is a contributor to soil dispersion.

Dispersive and dispersive slaking soil is all through Australia. It's a wide spread problem with Australian soil. Quite often a naturally occurring one. But in reality it's a lack of organic material and lifeless topsoil, that only makes it much worse.

Just did some digging of my own for you regarding soil dispersion. I have texts of my own too, if you need more information about it.

http://fertsmart.dairyingfortomorrow.com.au/dairy-soils-and-fertiliser-manual/chapter-7-managing-limiting-soil-factors/7-2-slaking-and-dispersion/

http://vro.agriculture.vic.gov.au/dpi/vro/vrosite.nsf/pages/soilhealth_soil_structure_dispersion

https://sesl.com.au/blog/dispersive-soils/

I figure I know enough about dispersive soils now for all I need. We're sitting on over a mile of clay here the oil boss told me. Surrounded by pump jacks with a big sour gas plant half a mile due east of me.

Wife puts in a big veggie garden each year and all she uses out there is well rotted compost that has lots of chicken crap and straw with a lot of wood shavings veggie waste poplar leaves etc. 3 big piles she rotates and each is enough to put about a 6" layer on then we take turns tilling it in every spring. I'm going to try some of these mega crop nutes on a few of her tomato plants and see what happens.

 

[Flowki]

I guess the kicker is most smokers only care about the thc count so heavy fast yielding strains makes sense, the market follows. Kinde sucks if you're not into that though, poor choices unless you screw yourself over.

 

[Aussieaceae]

I figure I know enough about dispersive soils now for all I need. We're sitting on over a mile of clay here the oil boss told me. Surrounded by pump jacks with a big sour gas plant half a mile due east of me.

Wife puts in a big veggie garden each year and all she uses out there is well rotted compost that has lots of chicken crap and straw with a lot of wood shavings veggie waste poplar leaves etc. 3 big piles she rotates and each is enough to put about a 6" layer on then we take turns tilling it in every spring. I'm going to try some of these mega crop nutes on a few of her tomato plants and see what happens.

Your wife's a machine!

The tomatoes will likely love the fertilizer, maybe even yield a little better. With repeated use for several years though, i'd put money on her soil being less fertile than it is now. My money is on the soil being less alive. Not just the topsoil, but deeper down as well.

I don't deny the effectiveness of plant fertilizer at all. That has never been my concern.

I love weed. Hydroponic or organic isn't going to determine whether i smoke, or grow it or not. Presented with the opportunity, organic is my preference, all it is.

 

[3rd Monkey]

I might have to write a book size post to get the whole thing in focus...

How about you all google that up......Maybe read more about the soil food web and how synthetic nutrients are made......I mean I get the chelator part but the end result is still rather different.

UNLESS, you speak of plant ready chelated (organic chelated) nutrient. This covers most of the liquid "organic" nutrient market.....Like Age Old or G&H's organic line, etc.

Now then. That does not cover things like organic brewed nutrient tea's. These are not chelated (or at least only partially), simply a process of making a solid nutrient ready to deliver in a liquid form.

I agree that boiled down to the final end, Yes, synthetic and organic does deliver the same nutrient ion....There's just more at play with the organic....A complexity of additional things that can be present....

My solid organic nutrient source's, are far more complex then any synthetic, liquid or powdered....

I've already explained this. It's not about how the nutrients are made, but delivered that I am debating. I've already agreed that human beings are vile, toxic, wastes of organic matter for defiling the planet for profit. Nutrient delivery is where I'm at. Nutrients are not synthetic... unless you show me proof otherwise. No need for google.

I already explained the rest earlier about synthetic and organic chelation and edta and microbes etc.

Sounds like you agreed that nutrients are not synthetic, so that's all I was trying to get across because there's a lot of misleading information/misinformation out there.

 

[3rd Monkey]

Longer but not anything like twice the time!

Would you be willing to pop a bean in your best soil mix vs a bean in my hydro? I am most certain it is twice as fast.

 

[bdt1981]

Some methods of hydro maybe 3-4 times as fast. I grew in an aeroflo2 and after roots came out the net pots ran it in the rdwc way with drain pipe half up kept pump on 24/7. Which did better than when i had it on a timer and pipes down to allow drying out some in the tubes. Growth was crazy fast for the clones i put in there. Few inches a day.

 

[bdt1981]

Ill aslo like to point out that the aeroflo2 is great. Some people call it an aero/nft hybrid but i call it a small tubed rdwc system. Guess its on how you run it. Its really not aero at all because it dosent produce any mist in rootzone. The stream that comes out the lines is just that a stream. When the tubes stay half full that stream creates mad o2 with the bubbles and surface break that is constant as well as the drain back into the res. Was a pain in the ass to do res changes with the design tho. Anyone who uses it should use a chiller and you wont have any problems.