Bernie Sanders 2020

[Fogdog]

That's the important question here. It would have to be as good as what we have already. I know I would like everyone to have a plan like ours. We have around 400,000 members in the US alone and so that's a lot to get to go along with a plan change. We definitely don't want less

I'll come out and say that I've helped my mother deal with multiple health care issues and Medicare has been great. There are limits though. We had to schedule routine appointments well in advance and there are fewer doctors willing to accept Medicare patients. That said, when she was really sick, she got great care. No complaints. It's not free, however. She chose to pay for supplemental insurance which covered what Medicare doesn't and that is her largest bill each month. That is, after paying for room, board and services in an assisted living facility. She's running out of money to pay for that. When she does, we start dealing with Medicaid and I have no idea what that's going to be like.

Medicare with the extra benefits of eye and dental care would be even better. So, I don't really have an issue with Medicare for all. I just have an issue with forcing everybody into that plan all at once. I think that giving people the choice whether or not to take their health care dollars and pay the government or pay a private company is a better way to manage the transition.

 

[Fogdog]

So show us the part where the bill eliminates supplemental insurance not already covered

Can you show us that part of the bill?

Or the part of the bill that takes any existing coverage away from anyone?

Can't?

I bet you can come up with another bullshit excuse for it, though. So let's hear it;

You were the one who said Medicare is the same as private insurance. I had to explain to you what the words "prohibited from providing duplicate" meant. LOL

 

[Padawanbater2]

I'll come out and say that I've helped my mother deal with multiple health care issues and Medicare has been great. There are limits though. We had to schedule routine appointments well in advance and there are fewer doctors willing to accept Medicare patients. That said, when she was really sick, she got great care. No complaints. It's not free, however. She chose to pay for supplemental insurance which covered what Medicare doesn't and that is her largest bill each month. That is, after paying for room, board and services in an assisted living facility. She's running out of money to pay for that. When she does, we start dealing with Medicaid and I have no idea what that's going to be like.

Medicare with the extra benefits of eye and dental care would be even better. So, I don't really have an issue with Medicare for all. I just have an issue with forcing everybody into that plan all at once. I think that giving people the choice whether or not to take their health care dollars and pay the government or pay a private company is a better way to manage the transition.

That's unacceptable

I want Americans like your mom to pay nothing out of pocket. That's what I'm advocating for, that's what the legislation I support provides.

 

[Padawanbater2]

You were the one who said Medicare is the same as private insurance. I had to explain to you what the words "prohibited from providing duplicate" meant. LOL

What section of the bill eliminates supplemental insurance?

No section?

 

[Fogdog]

That's unacceptable

I want Americans like your mom to pay nothing out of pocket. That's what I'm advocating for, that's what the legislation I support provides.

I have no beef with Medicare. Being the one who manages my Mom's finances, I'd certainly have no beef with my Mom not needing to pay for supplemental insurance. I think once people have the chance to opt in, I think resistance to a single payer system will dissipate. Assuming the government can deliver on it's promises, it will only take a few years before Medicare becomes universal. Of course, this is why the insurance industry fought so hard against a public option when the ACA was crafted.

That said, we still don't have a firm estimate of cost. Nor can anybody say how it will be paid for, which is something Bernie's bill doesn't specify. I need to see those details. Also, I've seen reports from analysts who think the health care delivery system is ready for the increase in patient visits, hence longer wait times and other SNAFUs.

 

[Fogdog]

What section of the bill eliminates supplemental insurance?

No section?

You are the one who has trouble understanding what "private insurance as we know it" means. You are falling back into asking why I said something when I never said it.

So, this bit about supplemental insurance is one thing I find troubling.

Why would there even be supplemental insurance if Medicare delivers the same care currently available from private insurers?

 

[Padawanbater2]

I have no beef with Medicare. Being the one who manages my Mom's finances, I'd certainly have no beef with my Mom not needing to pay for supplemental insurance. I think once people have the chance to opt in, I think resistance to a single payer system will dissipate. Assuming the government can deliver on it's promises, it will only take a few years before Medicare becomes universal. Of course, this is why the insurance industry fought so hard against a public option when the ACA was crafted.

That said, we still don't have a firm estimate of cost. Nor can anybody say how it will be paid for, which is something Bernie's bill doesn't specify. I need to see those details. Also, I've seen reports from analysts who think the health care delivery system is ready for the increase in patient visits, hence longer wait times and other SNAFUs.

What would you accept as a viable payment method to cover universal healthcare?

The answer is nothing

Any method Sanders or you or I could come up with, you would not support, so any method brought up, you will oppose. So let's start from the bottom. What method of payment for a single payer system of healthcare would you support?

 

[Fogdog]

What would you accept as a viable payment method to cover universal healthcare?

The answer is nothing

Any method Sanders or you or I could come up with, you would not support, so any method brought up, you will oppose. So let's start from the bottom. What method of payment for a single payer system of healthcare would you support?

Does the truth hurt you so much? The truth is, we still don't have a firm estimate of cost. Nor can anybody say how it will be paid for, which is something Bernie's bill doesn't specify. I need to see those details. Also, I've seen reports from analysts who don't think the health care delivery system is ready for the increase in patient visits, hence longer wait times and other SNAFUs. What would satisfy me is a professional job in crafting legislation that will actually accomplish the objectives. Bernies bill is none of that.

Too much is at stake for us to just wing it. I have kids, an elderly mom and I'm not alone in expecting to see better work from our lawmakers when they craft legislation that affects peoples health care and affects a quarter of this economy.

Bernie sucks. There are better options.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Does the truth hurt you so much? The truth is, we still don't have a firm estimate of cost. Nor can anybody say how it will be paid for, which is something Bernie's bill doesn't specify. I need to see those details. Also, I've seen reports from analysts who don't think the health care delivery system is ready for the increase in patient visits, hence longer wait times and other SNAFUs. What would satisfy me is a professional job in crafting legislation that will actually accomplish the objectives. Bernies bill is none of that.

Too much is at stake for us to just wing it. I have kids, an elderly mom and I'm not alone in expecting to see better work from our lawmakers when they craft legislation that affects peoples health care and affects a quarter of this economy.

Bernie sucks. There are better options.

"I'd have to see how much it would cost, I'd have to see how we'd pay for it.. "

You know how much it'll cost. You know how it would be paid for..

There is no method of payment you would support because you don't support universal healthcare. You only pretend you do because you know it's popular

If I'm wrong, state the method of payment you would support right here, right now. There is none. No matter the cost, no matter the method, you will oppose it because Sanders supports it

 

[Fogdog]

"I'd have to see how much it would cost, I'd have to see how we'd pay for it.. "

You know how much it'll cost. You know how it would be paid for..

There is no method of payment you would support because you don't support universal healthcare. You only pretend you do because you know it's popular

If I'm wrong, state the method of payment you would support right here, right now. There is none. No matter the cost, no matter the method, you will oppose it because Sanders supports it

The way you make shit up is a strange way to convince yourself you won an argument. The look isn't good. Just so's you know.

 

[Herb & Suds]

I see Sanders just fell behind Warren , does he have a plan for that ?

 

[Fogdog]

I see Sanders just fell behind Warren , does he have a plan for that ?

 

[Padawanbater2]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/19/democratic-establishment-elizabeth-warren-1369874

“One is a Democratic capitalist narrative,” said Matt Bennett, a co-founder of Third Way, a centrist think tank that convened a conference of party insiders in South Carolina this week designed to warn about the risks of a nominee whose views are out of the political mainstream. “The other is a socialist narrative.”


This is the sort of article frequently published by mainstream/corporate media designed to divide progressives. Most Sanders supporters also support Warren, and most Warren supporters also support Sanders. The discrepancies in policy in regards to campaign finance reform/accepting corporate PAC donations, M4A, and foreign policy are the most egregious, but not at all compared to any of the other main candidates sub Gabbard and Yang

As a Sanders supporter, I look forward to Warren's advancement through the Democratic field of candidates and very much look forward to her appearance on the debate stage. Regardless of what Politico or other mainstream/corporate media chooses to publish about her, or her or Sanders relationship to the Democratic establishment

 

[Padawanbater2]

"Anybody but Bernie!"

The Democratic establishment wouldn't publicly back anybody but Bernie, they wouldn't publicly accept donations (legal bribes) from Republican billionaire backers like Charles and David Koch and John Catsimatidis, the same guy who contributed 100K to Trump's campaign in 2016 if they believed they were winning..

This is an establishment fight against progressives, billionaire Republicans, billionaire Democrats together, the political establishment at the cusp of it. It doesn't matter if you're gay, straight, like guns, despise them, support abortion or believe life begins at conception. The issues that should take prominence between both parties remain economic according to polls and voter opinion; healthcare, a living wage, universal college, etc.. Poor Americans from both parties remain at higher levels of poverty than their international counterparts, including children under the age of 18, 5-1. This is unacceptable. All of the social reforms required are reliant on first reforming the economy. Anyone who argues otherwise should show their work.

 

[Fogdog]

"Anybody but Bernie!"

The Democratic establishment wouldn't publicly back anybody but Bernie, they wouldn't publicly accept donations (legal bribes) from Republican billionaire backers like Charles and David Koch and John Catsimatidis, the same guy who contributed 100K to Trump's campaign in 2016 if they believed they were winning..

This is an establishment fight against progressives, billionaire Republicans, billionaire Democrats together, the political establishment at the cusp of it. It doesn't matter if you're gay, straight, like guns, despise them, support abortion or believe life begins at conception. The issues that should take prominence between both parties remain economic according to polls and voter opinion; healthcare, a living wage, universal college, etc.. Poor Americans from both parties remain at higher levels of poverty than their international counterparts, including children under the age of 18, 5-1. This is unacceptable. All of the social reforms required are reliant on first reforming the economy. Anyone who argues otherwise should show their work.

What he used when he said "anybody but Bernie" is a trite debate tactic called an "appeal for pity". By invoking that logical fallacy, he plays to his audience's emotions rather than makes a logical factual and convincing argument. An appeal for pity is an attempt to influence through emotion without even needing to be right.

Apparently it works on you.

Warren is leagues better than Bernie. Also she doesn't use emotional appeals like Bernie does. Bernie sucks.

 

[Fogdog]

https://www.politico.com/story/2019/06/19/democratic-establishment-elizabeth-warren-1369874

“One is a Democratic capitalist narrative,” said Matt Bennett, a co-founder of Third Way, a centrist think tank that convened a conference of party insiders in South Carolina this week designed to warn about the risks of a nominee whose views are out of the political mainstream. “The other is a socialist narrative.”


This is the sort of article frequently published by mainstream/corporate media designed to divide progressives. Most Sanders supporters also support Warren, and most Warren supporters also support Sanders. The discrepancies in policy in regards to campaign finance reform/accepting corporate PAC donations, M4A, and foreign policy are the most egregious, but not at all compared to any of the other main candidates sub Gabbard and Yang

As a Sanders supporter, I look forward to Warren's advancement through the Democratic field of candidates and very much look forward to her appearance on the debate stage. Regardless of what Politico or other mainstream/corporate media chooses to publish about her, or her or Sanders relationship to the Democratic establishment

Are you are aware that every so-called Democratic socialist elected to office ran as Democrats and serve their districts as members of the Democratic Party? They are few in number and and every one of them work with other Democrats to get work done for their districts. Without support from other, more moderate Democrats, they couldn't do their jobs and might not be able to stay in office. But they do get help, cooperation and support from other Democrats. Wherever you got this idea that they are a separate political group should be questioned as a valid source of information.

 

[Padawanbater2]

What he used when he said "anybody but Bernie" is a trite debate tactic called an "appeal for pity". By invoking that logical fallacy, he plays to his audience's emotions rather than makes a logical factual and convincing argument. An appeal for pity is an attempt to influence through emotion without even needing to be right.

Matt Bennett said "anybody but Sanders" as a "trite debate tactic called [an appeal for pity]" to elicit an "appeal for pity"?

 

[Fogdog]

Matt Bennett said "anybody but Sanders" as a "trite debate tactic called [an appeal for pity]" to elicit an "appeal for pity"?

Bernie used it in that manner. Yes, he did. It was a trite debate tactic. You fell for it too.

Bernie sucks as a leader. He's a very divisive politician.

 

[Padawanbater2]

Are you are aware that every so-called Democratic socialist elected to office ran as Democrats and serve their districts as members of the Democratic Party?

Of course, due to the two party system inherent in American politics, but that doesn't stop you from condemning them or praising them when you deem necessary, in other words, using them as props when it benefits you and pawns when it doesn't

They are few in number and and every one of them work with other Democrats to get work done for their districts. Without support from other, more moderate Democrats, they couldn't do their jobs and might not be able to stay in office. But they do get help, cooperation and support from other Democrats.

None of them work with corporate Democrats to "get work done for their districts". They don't compromise on their values or barter with their beliefs because they're actually principled

Wherever you got this idea that they are a separate political group should be questioned as a valid source of information.

We got that from you guys

I thought Sanders wasn't a Democrat?

 

[Padawanbater2]

Bernie used it in that manner. Yes, he did. It was a trite debate tactic. You fell for it too.

Bernie sucks as a leader. He's a very divisive politician.

Matt Bennett said it. Sanders reported it.

Bennett, cofounder of Third Way, said "anybody but Sanders"

Why do you suppose he supports "anybody but Sanders"?