First Perpetual grow questions.

[botanybandit]

This is my Forum post EVER!! I've always sought out Forums when i've needed information throughout my life....But this is my FIRST forum post EVER.....Better late than never....Greetings Community...Help me medicate the masses please.

Finally moved to a legal state and I can live my dream. Wouldn't dare risk it in Texas. I've read the entire grow bible back in 2011 when I was 19. At my disposal I have a 10ft x 10ft Room. So far I've spent $2200. Inside I have 2 tents. As listed below, My goal is to Cash Crop. I want to set up a perpetual harvest of at least 1.5LBs a month with TWO 4 x 4 tents and an additional 2 chambers for clone and pre veg. I'm dedicated enough to get it done. I would call myself an amateur grower but I have an extremely high capacity for retaining new information, especially for a passion/income. I know how to seek out information and answers. With that being said I have a few questions stated below.

1. From my configuration listed are there things that can be improved?
2. Different lights needed?
3. Do I need a third tent, maybe a 3 x 3 for Veg?
4.How many plants should I be growing at one time with the space and chambers I have at my disposal and what kind of cycle should I have them on?
5. Are my choice of nutrients a solid one?


(((Tent One))1
4 x 4 x 80inches. I have turned this tent into my main flowering tent. Inside i have 2 Purple Punch plants in 7 Gallon pots that have been vegged 6 weeks, (4-5weeks was at 24 hours under two 300W Galaxy Hydro LED so they are big as hell. Originally they were going to be mothers but decided to bud them so I can get a turn around. Only one of the two was cloned and 9 out of the 12 cuttings i took went on to be great. Currently as of 5/20/19 they are 55 days from Clone. Just started week 3 of Flower. Got them from Semilla HRC in North Hollywood.

Lights:
Ran 9PM-9AM for optimum temps. 1000W Eye Hortilux with a Galaxy switchable digital ballast with air cooled hood running at 750W for temp reasons. I've experimented with a BESTVA 2000W LED(390W) inside this same tent with HPS light @ 750W. With BOTH on temp is at 80F. Is that too much light for 2 plants? They aren't being light burned. Is 80F too much for optimum growth?

Ventilation:
1 6-inch AC Infinity Smart fan pulling cool night time air in from a homemade four hole window duct(Window is completely sealed up and insulated). . . .
At the top, another 6-Inch AC Infinity Fan.
Configuration is Carbon Filter>Duct>Hood>Duct>Fan>Duct>Outside.
The fans are nice because they can automatically adjust their speed when the temp/humidity fluctuates and they have a nice sophisticated look to them...The thermostats on the wall outside the tent makes the setup look that much more high tech. Has a wow factor for sure. Also fairly quiet and energy efficient.

While the lights are on average temps are 78F at 750W.....At 1000W its 81ish....... 40%-51%RH. And like I said, the 750W HPS + 2000W Bestva LED = 80-81F.
Lights off during the day around 68-72F. . Hurricane Wall fan mounted inside. Good airflow and kept clean. Bluelab PH Pen calibrated once a month. Soil PH 6.4 most of the time. Always PH my Water with Advanced Nutes PH Up and Down.



(((Tent Two))2
5 x 4 x 74inches Multichamber Tent. 4 x 4 Main area. And separate 1 x 4 chamber(top and bottom) for Cloning and Pre-Veg.

Ventilation:
Same Fan Configuration except I have a 8 inch Hurricane inline fan pulling air into this. 6 Inch AC Infinity fan doing the Exhausting with the thermostat on wall. Currently this is a VEG tent but will be my second flower tent eventually. Inside are 2 Durban Poison Clones and 2 Mendo Breath Clones from Green Dragon HRC. All going to be transplanted into 3 Gallon fabric pots. All four bought at same time for $14 each. Chosen because I hear they are big yielders and I'm cash cropping. My 9 Purple Punch clones I took are all heathy. Remaining is 5 Purple OG Clones that are probably going to be thrown away. They came from a trifling garden smh.

Lights:
The Light is a KindLED XL K5 Series 1000W LED. At the time I found it on OfferUp the dude wanted $800. I got it for $300 because I have the Gift of Gab and I took several courses on Finesse. People trash Kind lights, and if its facts its facts.
But my question is:
For the price of $300 did I win? It's 630watts from the wall and the fact you can customize the spectrum and lower the power is dope. The plants in the veg tent like the light a lot. Would you recommend I use this as my second FLOWER light Or use it for my third tent(Veg) and replace with something else to achieve my goal .....Also is a third tent for Veg even needed at all? What light would you recommend to flower with if i didnt win?



(((Clone Chamber)))
Feit 23W LED Grow light, Clone dome with heat map. And Clip Fan


(((Pre-Veg Chamber))

OPTION OF:
BESTVA DC Series 2000W LED. It pulls 390W from the Wall. And has Veg and Bloom Switch.
Or
2 300W GalaxyHydro LEDs.


Thats 4 LEDs and 1 1000W HPS.
2 300W Galaxy Hydro
1000W HPS with brand-new Eye Hortilux bulb and aircooled hood
Kind LED K5 Series XL1000(630watts)
BESTVA DC Series 2000W (390W)
That I got for a grand total of $350 !!!!!!!


Nutrients/Medium:
Fabric Pots FTW.
Tap Water
FoxFarm OceanForest soil PH 6.4 most of the time, along with the FoxFarm trio of nutes + Kelp me Kelp You + CaliMagic + Sledgehammer for flush. Humbolts Secret Flower Shield for pest prevention.
Sometimes foliar spray with Kelp Me Kelp You.
Also just ordered Advanced Nutes(Pirahna, Voodoo juice, Tarantula for root Growth) and Bud Candy because i hear its dope.
Also got FoxFarm Bushdoctor Boomerang to alleviate Stresses I may cause.



Equipment used:
2 AC Infinity T6
1 AC Infinity S6
Kind XL1000
Hurricane 8 inch inline fan
VIVOSUN 2-in-1 60”x48”x80” Mylar Reflective Grow Tent
Humbolts Secret Flower Shield
GH CaliMagic
Terrabloom Carbon Filter
GH Rapid Rooters
Hydrofarm 72 cell Clone Dome with Heat Mat
Hydrodynamics Clonex Rooting Gel
etc. im sleepy lol

 

[Apalchen]

You will need a tent to veg in if you want to turn around crops fast enough. Does any light leak from one side of the tent that is divided up already if so I’d just use that as a veg tent all around sincenit already has clone chambers. If max temp with the 1000 water is 81 you should be good maybe just drop it down to 750 to get the temps back down for the last couple weeks. 81 is not bad at all. Unless you have plant count numbers to deal with vegging that long is waste of time imo.
I’ve never used a kind led and I’m sure they aren’t the best but it will produce good flower til the money coming in warrants an upgrade. It wasn’t that long ago they were top of the line lights for led.

I would put 4-6 plants in 2 or 3 gallon pots of coco(cause that’s what I like to run in and do better that way) per tent. I would load up one tent and then 30 days later load up the other tent. This will give you approximately 30 days of veg. I would have the clones rooted and in solo cups waiting for when the veg tent emptied and then load it up. Always have a few extra plants for each round that way you can throw away weak plants.

I have run as many as 9 per 4x4 but it gets crowded you will be able to decide better what works for you after a run or two I can’t say for sure how big your plants will get with 30 days of veg it can vary greatly by grower and the way it’s done, pot size, how long the clones have been rooted ect.

As far as nutrients go I used to spend a ton of money on all diff kinds of crap. I now just use AN sensi coco base nutes and big bud coco. I occasionally use bud igniter depending on strain but only a couple doses. And the GH flushing solution. Of course I do keep calmmag around but again only a dose here or there. Since I have cut back on all the crap I was adding bud quality has remained the same or better. Mixing nutes is less of a chore and I save a ton of money. Especially with being new i would recommend the less is better approach. Just focus on keeping the plants happy and not pushing them for max yield. Because it’s counter intuitive, the only way to get more yield from nutes is to be completely dialed in else where. I’ve tried about every additive out there and I can’t say that any one increased my yield substantially.

 

[Jimdamick]

If you have a 10'x10' area dedicated to growing why use tents?
You will run into heat problems in a tent, plus your growing big plants with a 6 week veg (do 4-5 next time), and they will overwhelm your tent.
I run a perpetual and I have a separate area for veg (you could use a tent for that), but I have a 12 pots set up for 1 cycle and 14 for the next in about the same area as you have.
I veg around 16-22 plants (I use seed) on average and once I finish an cycle, I just keep swapping them out on average at 5 weeks and pull about 4 lbs average per 5 weeks on 12 plants
Instead of 7 gal pots (too large for a tent and a pain to water), use 3 gallon pots (1 gal per month of grow).
Also save some money and don't buy all those nutes, I grow with a 3 part system (grow/boost/bloom), and 1 booster (Techniflora Awesome Blossoms) and they work fine.
I wish I had all the money back that I spent on useless voodoo shit. (like most AN products).

Good luck and I wish you success

 

[Renfro]

Good to have you with us @botanybandit and I must say that was a great post, very detailed and easy to read. That could have turned into a terrible wall of text with that much information.

One thing I want to stress with running a perpetual is the need to keep any sort of bug infestation from happening as it is often difficult if not impossible to treat plants effectively during flower. That then leads to a perpetual infestation since one is unable to completely sterilize the area between runs.

Another part of a perpetual is timing. Sometimes you have plants that are getting too big in veg waiting for plants in bloom to finish up. Sometimes you may have empty space in bloom waiting for plants to veg. With different strains it will be important to keep records of your strains, assuming you will keep mothers. Record veg times from clone, height when put into bloom and flowering time and height when finished. You want to know exactly how much to veg them to end up the proper size so the light height can be good for all plants. Then you need to get a calendar setup so you can know exactly when to cut clones so you have plants timed with proper amount of veg when plants are ripe and space frees up in bloom.

Once you get things fine tuned you can be very productive. This is often when growers get a mite infestation though, right after things get rolling. So be vigilant and religiously apply your planned IPM protocol, no slacking. Any new genetics need to be quarantined and cleared before you introduce them.

Another downside to perpetual is the inability to dial the environment differently as the plants bloom. I like to incrementally dial down my lighting, CO2, temperatures as the plants finish. I think this helps me get better density and eliminates issues such as foxtailing. If you mix your nutrients differently for the various stages of bloom it can get to be a little bit of a chore as opposed to just having a bloom mix and a veg mix. So how many "intervals" you want in your perpetual grow might be highly dependent on this factor.

Anyways I am mostly just blabbering and I hope something I spilled out is helpful in your endeavor.

 

[botanybandit]

Thanks for the responses guys. I'm going to upload some pics and vids of the setup later so you can get a better picture.


@Apalchen Thanks for the response brother. No light leaks from the smaller chamber to the bigger one but I think i still want to get one more smaller tent for better flexibility. And i see what you mean about the veg time. Originally i wanted to keep them as mothers but decided to go ahead and bud them.
I was thinking the same thing about that LED. It will suffice.

4-6 definitely answered my question of how many plants to use. I dont want it be super cramped where it would be a hassle to water.

Also I've never grown in coco only soil. I choose soil because it gives me a bit better flexibility if I need to be away from home for a bit. I guess ill just play with these nutes (1/2 doses) until they are out and then reevaluate. Whats the benefit of Coco over soil?



@Jimdamick Because its in an apartment. Even though its legal I'm not too sure how the landlord feels about it. My Texan caution i presume. And i definitely didnt intend to veg that long thats just how the cookie crumbled. I started those 2 clones before I had the money to get everything else. My college kids.

So i should be vegging around 16-22 plants at all times? Are you saying 12 pots in one tent and 14 in the other? And basically every 5 weeks you harvest 12 plants? Nice
And youre the second to tell me stay away from the nutes and keep it simple. Im going to use what I have since i bought it and follow you guys wisdom til its gone.



@Renfro Thanks brother, that's what I was aiming for. Exit-level high school testing I got the highest in my class. Even blew my mind.

As far as infestations go. I foliar spray Humboldt Secret Flower Shield on them at the beginning of the dark period. Its at half strength as a preventative measure. Am i caused my buds damage buds doing this? Is this wise practice?

Analytics, that is definitely an area I need to improve. I havent been documenting those factors. Now I have more work to do. Jesus.

I'm definitely looking into a simple 3 part nutrient next time. Those bottles just look so shiny and colorful they suck you in.

 

[botanybandit]

Just an update guys.

Welp. I dropped out on this


HLG 600H-54 Quantom Board
620Watts from wall. 4 x QB288 V2 Rspec boards. Apparently the deep red spectrum they added to the board is new. $816. So now that puts my total tally up to around $3100. But after hours of binge researching it definitely sounds like the winner. The other tent has my KIND LED XL1000......it’s a good light, plants love it. Idk why it’s $1695 still....but hey whatever. I got it for $300. Down comes the 1000W HPS...also have everything I need to make a DWC system. Solid advice gentleman.
Here’s a few pics.......Oh and did I defoliate my babies too much. I used bamboo and plant ties to spread the branches out for much better light penetration.

Soil PH is at a constant 6.5. I check it multiple times a day. My #1 rookie grower mistake was I didn’t gov a damn about PH. Now this BlueLab pen is my best friend. Thanks for all the responses guys

 

[Aladdin.khalifa]

Hello @botanybandit

Thank you for sharing with us! It looks like you want to take it to the next level and do it like a pro, I'm really exited for you.

Why were you vegging in 24/0? When you go above 18/6, there is usually no difference, it is often a waste of power.
Are you running your flowering tents at night (There is less heat and power is cheaper too) ?
Are you using light movers? (It also allows you to bring down your power bill and spread heat very efficiently.)
Do you defoliate? It's trendy at the moment but it often lowers yields unless you do it very sparingly.
What strains are you growing?

If you use an aero cloner, they'll root a bit faster.

Why all these big corporations taking over the market, it is hard to be profitable but as a craft cannabis producer, it is definitely possible to compete!!

Best of luck to you,

Cheers,

Aladdin

 

[Aladdin.khalifa]

Personally I would only use tents for the veg.

 

[Jimdamick]

Why all these big corporations taking over the market, it is hard to be profitable but as a craft cannabis producer, it is definitely possible to compete!!

Fuck those corporate guy's that sell their shit for $15-25 per gram, minimum.
I sell at $10 per gram with a good variety, live next to 2 legal states and I'm still making good money, and had customers leave to try out the legal shit, and they all have come back.
Basic Economics 101.
Provide a good product at a better price than your competitors, and you will win the battle.
Very simple .

 

[Aladdin.khalifa]

Fuck those corporate guy's that sell their shit for $15-25 per gram, minimum.
I sell at $10 per gram with a good variety, live next to 2 legal states and I'm still making good money, and had customers leave to try out the legal shit, and they all have come back.
Basic Economics 101.
Provide a good product at a better price than your competitors, and you will win the battle.
Very simple .

Yes most definitely!! I agree with that model.

I just hope that when these big guys start selling their pot at $3 per gram, people will still be willing to pay $10 per gram for some high quality organic weed produced by a craft grower (Even if that $10 craft weed is really worth 20).

Kudos to you brother! I am a craft breeder myself

 

[Jimdamick]

Yes most definitely!! I agree with that model.

I just hope that when these big guys start selling their pot at $3 per gram, people will still be willing to pay $10 per gram for some high quality organic weed produced by a craft grower (Even if that $10 craft weed is really worth 20).

Kudos to you brother! I am a craft breeder myself

The Big Guy's will never undercut me (tax free ).
They will rely on mass consumption, but my shit is like fine wine, you will taste it once and you will come back.
Let them TRY to grow equivalent weed and beat my price.
The only way they can win if every black marketer gets arrested, and that ain't happening.
I have no fear of legalized herb, in fact it might actually increase my profits because the stigma of being a pot smoker will have been eliminated, so more people will come out of the closet and buy.
I will welcome them with open arms

 

[Aladdin.khalifa]

The Big Guy's will never undercut me (tax free ).
They will rely on mass consumption, but my shit is like fine wine, you will taste it once and you will come back.
Let them TRY to grow equivalent weed and beat my price.
The only way they can win if every black marketer gets arrested, and that ain't happening.
I have no fear of legalized herb, in fact it might actually increase my profits because the stigma of being a pot smoker will have been eliminated, so more people will come out of the closet and buy.
I will welcome them with open arms

What you are saying makes sense.

Not everybody is willing to pay more for something better but I'm sure that many cannabis connoisseurs would rather buy their buds from a real craft grower like yourself!

 

[Jimdamick]

..Oh and did I defoliate my babies too much

Yea, you did.
Don't cut fans off, never.
They store water/food and allow the plant to breath thru transpiration.
Defoliation does nothing good for a plant, but make it look pretty.

 

[bammer_101]

Great post, will be following. My girl and I are new growers and have a similar set up and investment! Good luck, brother!

 

[ttystikk]

View attachment 4339826 View attachment 4339830 View attachment 4339822 View attachment 4339823 View attachment 4339824 View attachment 4339825 Just an update guys.

Welp. I dropped out on this


HLG 600H-54 Quantom Board
620Watts from wall. 4 x QB288 V2 Rspec boards. Apparently the deep red spectrum they added to the board is new. $816. So now that puts my total tally up to around $3100. But after hours of binge researching it definitely sounds like the winner. The other tent has my KIND LED XL1000......it’s a good light, plants love it. Idk why it’s $1695 still....but hey whatever. I got it for $300. Down comes the 1000W HPS...also have everything I need to make a DWC system. Solid advice gentleman.
Here’s a few pics.......Oh and did I defoliate my babies too much. I used bamboo and plant ties to spread the branches out for much better light penetration.

Soil PH is at a constant 6.5. I check it multiple times a day. My #1 rookie grower mistake was I didn’t gov a damn about PH. Now this BlueLab pen is my best friend. Thanks for all the responses guys

You should be updating much more often, even daily, so folks here can help you catch shit before it gets out of hand.

You have a good start but perpetual, aka regular production, is a complicated beast and it takes time to get a handle on it.

 

[Renfro]

As far as infestations go. I foliar spray Humboldt Secret Flower Shield on them at the beginning of the dark period. Its at half strength as a preventative measure. Am i caused my buds damage buds doing this? Is this wise practice?

I have always lived by the "spray nothing on the flowers" saying. Personally my grow gets its last treatment before it flips. After that it's on it's own. If I were to bring another round of plants into the room like a true perpetual they would have to be treated prior and pest free as other plants in the room are unprotected. So a couple applications in veg keeps them clean.

 

[Jonny Jetson]

If you have a 10'x10' area dedicated to growing why use tents?
You will run into heat problems in a tent, plus your growing big plants with a 6 week veg (do 4-5 next time), and they will overwhelm your tent.
I run a perpetual and I have a separate area for veg (you could use a tent for that), but I have a 12 pots set up for 1 cycle and 14 for the next in about the same area as you have.
I veg around 16-22 plants (I use seed) on average and once I finish an cycle, I just keep swapping them out on average at 5 weeks and pull about 4 lbs average per 5 weeks on 12 plants
Instead of 7 gal pots (too large for a tent and a pain to water), use 3 gallon pots (1 gal per month of grow).
Also save some money and don't buy all those nutes, I grow with a 3 part system (grow/boost/bloom), and 1 booster (Techniflora Awesome Blossoms) and they work fine.
I wish I had all the money back that I spent on useless voodoo shit. (like most AN products).

Good luck and I wish you success

What strains are you running to achieve 4lbs every 5 weeks?

 

[Jimdamick]

What strains are you running to achieve 4lbs every 5 weeks?

It really depends on the pheno because some White Widows your lucky to get a couple of oz's and other's you'll get 5.
I grow a lot of different strains, but all Bomb seeds, especially Big Bomb are good producers.
Right now I have a couple of killer Power Africa by Seedsman that I'm probably going to get 6 oz's each from
Here are the colas of the PA and some of the bud from this harvest.



I grow like a minimum of 4 strains at a time, and some are winners, others not so good but it all averages out in the end.
This grow was Power Africa, Cream 47, Orient Express, White Widow x Blueberry and Lemon Haze.

 

[Jonny Jetson]

It really depends on the pheno because some White Widows your lucky to get a couple of oz's and other's you'll get 5.
I grow a lot of different strains, but all Bomb seeds, especially Big Bomb are good producers.
Right now I have a couple of killer Power Africa by Seedsman that I'm probably going to get 6 oz's each from
Here are the colas of the PA and some of the bud from this harvest.

View attachment 4353538 View attachment 4353539 View attachment 4353540

I grow like a minimum of 4 strains at a time, and some are winners, others not so good but it all averages out in the end.
This grow was Power Africa, Cream 47, Orient Express, White Widow x Blueberry and Lemon Haze.

Looking good.