imho hydro sucks

[CanadianJim]

I've never grown hydro, but I do have to disagree with all the people who are saying it's less expensive. I have the cost of soil (promix veggie soil - has less nitrogen than the flowering plants version) - way less than $20, the cost of nutes, but I have to buy less than hydro since the plants get plenty from the soil for the first month or so. The price of water, which hydro growers need to pay for as well due to the plants drinking and evaporation from the buckets. The price of electricity for the lights, again something hydro growers have to pay for, and they have to pay more because of air stones, pumps etc. and I can move mine out under the sun to cut that cost. I don't see how hydro could possibly cost less than soil.
Apologies if someone else brought this up already, my ADD only let me get through 2 of the pages on this subject.
If you like hydro go hydro. If you like soil go soil. And tell anyone who says you're wrong to stick it back up where it came from.

 

[bdt1981]

I've never grown hydro, but I do have to disagree with all the people who are saying it's less expensive. I have the cost of soil (promix veggie soil - has less nitrogen than the flowering plants version) - way less than $20, the cost of nutes, but I have to buy less than hydro since the plants get plenty from the soil for the first month or so. The price of water, which hydro growers need to pay for as well due to the plants drinking and evaporation from the buckets. The price of electricity for the lights, again something hydro growers have to pay for, and they have to pay more because of air stones, pumps etc. and I can move mine out under the sun to cut that cost. I don't see how hydro could possibly cost less than soil.
Apologies if someone else brought this up already, my ADD only let me get through 2 of the pages on this subject.
If you like hydro go hydro. If you like soil go soil. And tell anyone who says you're wrong to stick it back up where it came from.

Over time hydro wins stuff goes long way but no matter the difference in final weight pays for itself after one solid run.

 

[Dr. Who]

So it dies at last!
Lets see if i spark it up again...
So if you're going to grow commercially hydro wins hands down! More lbs in the same amount of time. Equals more dollars earned in same amount of time. A little more up front cost on equipment but lots less dollars spent on labor since u can have half as many plants and achieve same yield. For instance if im running 100 plants in flower in a rdwc system compared to about 300 in soil to get same end weight i can manage 100 single handed where you better have at least 3 to 5 dedicated guys who know what their doing managing 300 plants in dirt. Transplanting from 1 into 5 gal pots sucks so much when u have a lot of plants to work. Haha. I kno this from expirence.

Not so fast.
Interestingly, the most commercial places I have seen, or visited. RUN SOIL... You see, they are, auto feed, and hand tended just the same way hydro is.
The most hydro commercial ops I have seen, are run in Rock Wool and are flood tables.
Now, I have seen a large burst in dual layer growing by LED and auto watering. Think of a two tiered rack, some large enough to have a walkway to work the upper level. I just saw one of these in CO this past week, on vacation.....Oh, they ran soil......

Then you have the outdoor boys......No hydro there! Just ask Double JJ

This statement says. "I don't know how to grow in soil properly." I can get so close to matching your hydro yields in the end....It's NOT a factor.

 

[Dr. Who]

Years ago I grew a tomato plant in a small raised bed. I mixed a whole bag of chicken manure into it and it was apparently a hot batch of manure with a bunch of N. The tomato plant went crazy. It grew into a giant with a huge main stalk and thick stemmed branches. I thought I was going to get a bumper crop of tomatoes. I ended up with a huge tomato plant that looked like a tree but only produced four or five tomatoes. I haven't made that mistake since.

Exactly!

 

[Dr. Who]

Over time hydro wins stuff goes long way but no matter the difference in final weight pays for itself after one solid run.

Your statement says to me. "I'm not well experienced in soil growing."

I can get so close to hydro yield in soil, it just don't matter.
Hydro is faster, that's all...
Soil produces better terp profiles and better flavor...
Organic soil grows, even better.
To this day, hydro can not match that...

 

[Dr. Who]

In 1 month, hydro is twice the size as soil. In 2 months 4 times the size.

When you flip to flower, it shows in yields. If you are going strictly by time, you can play the week game. Most folks I know, shoot for yield.

The way I see it, hydro will grow at least twice the yield in the same amount of time, which if you're shooting for yield, is twice as fast at least.

Twice as fast is simply a stupid thing to say!

You DO NOT harvest in 4-6 weeks........ THAT IS TWICE AS FAST.....
As far as yields go. I still basically can get the same yield as you......So I take a bit longer......I'm into the quality anyway......I win that race everyday...

 

[Dr. Who]

2 weeks weg in an aeroflo is probably to long. The system is to tightly packed to veg imo. Straight into flower after rooted pulled zip each. Flipping a clone in soil straight to flower pulls half that. So thats 2X the yield.

Improper Republican math!

END RESULT or END YIELD! This is what matters, not half way though the fucking grow. Can't smoke non finished plants!

 

[xtsho]

I've never grown hydro, but I do have to disagree with all the people who are saying it's less expensive. I have the cost of soil (promix veggie soil - has less nitrogen than the flowering plants version) - way less than $20, the cost of nutes, but I have to buy less than hydro since the plants get plenty from the soil for the first month or so. The price of water, which hydro growers need to pay for as well due to the plants drinking and evaporation from the buckets. The price of electricity for the lights, again something hydro growers have to pay for, and they have to pay more because of air stones, pumps etc. and I can move mine out under the sun to cut that cost. I don't see how hydro could possibly cost less than soil.
Apologies if someone else brought this up already, my ADD only let me get through 2 of the pages on this subject.
If you like hydro go hydro. If you like soil go soil. And tell anyone who says you're wrong to stick it back up where it came from.

Maybe not considered 100% hydro but definitely not soil is coco and blumats. It's basically a gravity fed drip type system with no runoff so no wasted nutrients. I reuse the coco more than once as well. I can fill five 3 gallon fabric pots with one 5kg bag of coco for $17. That's $3.40 a pot and since I typically use the coco twice that drops down to $1.70 a pot for the grow medium. For nutrients I use inexpensive VitaGrow which is just calcium nitrate, MKP, a micronutient blend and dirt cheap. It costs me less than $10 in nutrients for an entire grow start to finish. So $2.00 per plant for nutrients and $1.70 per plant for coco and the cost is under $4.00 per plant for a grow. That's going to be much less than both hydro and soil growers growing indoors under lights. I didn't include the costs for electricity, lights, pots, misc, etc... because those costs are the same as soil and hydro growers growing indoors under lights in a tent or grow room. I also do take advantage of outdoor light and put the plants outside weather permitting while in veg before they go into the flower tent and I setup the blumats.

There is debate as to whether coco is actually hydro but in my opinion it's a hybrid and if done properly is less expensive than both hydro or soil unless you're growing outside in the ground in natural soil under the sun. Which some people do and get excellent results. But that depends on the native soil they're growing in.

Coco + blumats is probably one of the most inexpensive and easiest ways to grow. I've done multiple types of hydro and have grown in soil. Once I started growing in 100% coco with blumats I never looked back. This method of growing goes against most of what people are told you need to do when growing in coco. For instance, no runoff. People think you need to water to runoff daily with coco or else you'll get salt buildup. You don't. Feed at a low EC and you're fine. The nutrient companies have people overfeeding their plants and that's what causes salt buildups. They say you have to use CalMag. You don't and I never do. In fact I have never purchased a CalMag product in my life. There is plenty of both in VitaGrow. There should be enough calcium and magnesium in any nutrient line to begin with. The fact that it isn't shows how the nutrient companies are purposely leaving it out so they can sell another bottle of product. But that's an entire topic on it's own.

Anyway, since this is more a less hydro vs soil thread I just thought I would throw out a hybrid type of growing that I think many people might be interested in looking into.

3 gallon fabric pots, 100% coco coir, VitaGrow nutrients, blumat watering system, 600 watt HPS, 4 x 4 tent, 4 - 5 weeks into flower (guestimate). No runoff or CalMag for the entire grow.

 

[Dr. Who]

Maybe not considered 100% hydro but definitely not soil is coco and blumats. It's basically a gravity fed drip type system with no runoff so no wasted nutrients. I reuse the coco more than once as well. I can fill five 3 gallon fabric pots with one 5kg bag of coco for $17. That's $3.40 a pot and since I typically use the coco twice that drops down to $1.70 a pot for the grow medium. For nutrients I use inexpensive VitaGrow which is just calcium nitrate, MKP, a micronutient blend and dirt cheap. It costs me less than $10 in nutrients for an entire grow start to finish. So $2.00 per plant for nutrients and $1.70 per plant for coco and the cost is under $4.00 per plant for a grow. That's going to be much less than both hydro and soil growers growing indoors under lights. I didn't include the costs for electricity, lights, pots, misc, etc... because those costs are the same as soil and hydro growers growing indoors under lights in a tent or grow room. I also do take advantage of outdoor light and put the plants outside weather permitting while in veg before they go into the flower tent and I setup the blumats.

There is debate as to whether coco is actually hydro but in my opinion it's a hybrid and if done properly is less expensive than both hydro or soil unless you're growing outside in the ground in natural soil under the sun. Which some people do and get excellent results. But that depends on the native soil they're growing in.

Coco + blumats is probably one of the most inexpensive and easiest ways to grow. I've done multiple types of hydro and have grown in soil. Once I started growing in 100% coco with blumats I never looked back. This method of growing goes against most of what people are told you need to do when growing in coco. For instance, no runoff. People think you need to water to runoff daily with coco or else you'll get salt buildup. You don't. Feed at a low EC and you're fine. The nutrient companies have people overfeeding their plants and that's what causes salt buildups. They say you have to use CalMag. You don't and I never do. In fact I have never purchased a CalMag product in my life. There is plenty of both in VitaGrow. There should be enough calcium and magnesium in any nutrient line to begin with. The fact that it isn't shows how the nutrient companies are purposely leaving it out so they can sell another bottle of product. But that's an entire topic on it's own.

Anyway, since this is more a less hydro vs soil thread I just thought I would throw out a hybrid type of growing that I think many people might be interested in looking into.

3 gallon fabric pots, 100% coco coir, VitaGrow nutrients, blumat watering system, 600 watt HPS, 4 x 4 tent, 4 - 5 weeks into flower (guestimate). No runoff or CalMag for the entire grow.

Blumats and container soil or soil-less ...... That's how we take vacations!

Just got back from one. Your only time limit is how near the finish you are and how big your feeder res is.

How long can you walk away from a hydro operation?

Coco and soil-less are generally considered as a hydro method......I know, kinda odd but, you are using hydro pH values and mix's. You get nothing in the way of nutrition from your media...
Any Calcium in the peat mix's are for pH balancing....

 

[OldMedUser]

I need a f'n vacation!

Going out to BC late Sept and hoping all my girls are done and in the can before I go. The wife can water whatever I leave in veg but want to spend at least 3 weeks out there to go salmon fishing on my 65th b-day Oct. 14 g'dammit!

Going to have to hang colas to dry faster than I like and break out the trimmer to get it done but with 12 plants and 6 strains it's not likely to happen. Just on day 12 of 12/12 now.

Too late for coco and blumats. lol

 

[Mullalulla]

Maybe not considered 100% hydro but definitely not soil is coco and blumats. It's basically a gravity fed drip type system with no runoff so no wasted nutrients. I reuse the coco more than once as well. I can fill five 3 gallon fabric pots with one 5kg bag of coco for $17. That's $3.40 a pot and since I typically use the coco twice that drops down to $1.70 a pot for the grow medium. For nutrients I use inexpensive VitaGrow which is just calcium nitrate, MKP, a micronutient blend and dirt cheap. It costs me less than $10 in nutrients for an entire grow start to finish. So $2.00 per plant for nutrients and $1.70 per plant for coco and the cost is under $4.00 per plant for a grow. That's going to be much less than both hydro and soil growers growing indoors under lights. I didn't include the costs for electricity, lights, pots, misc, etc... because those costs are the same as soil and hydro growers growing indoors under lights in a tent or grow room. I also do take advantage of outdoor light and put the plants outside weather permitting while in veg before they go into the flower tent and I setup the blumats.

There is debate as to whether coco is actually hydro but in my opinion it's a hybrid and if done properly is less expensive than both hydro or soil unless you're growing outside in the ground in natural soil under the sun. Which some people do and get excellent results. But that depends on the native soil they're growing in.

Coco + blumats is probably one of the most inexpensive and easiest ways to grow. I've done multiple types of hydro and have grown in soil. Once I started growing in 100% coco with blumats I never looked back. This method of growing goes against most of what people are told you need to do when growing in coco. For instance, no runoff. People think you need to water to runoff daily with coco or else you'll get salt buildup. You don't. Feed at a low EC and you're fine. The nutrient companies have people overfeeding their plants and that's what causes salt buildups. They say you have to use CalMag. You don't and I never do. In fact I have never purchased a CalMag product in my life. There is plenty of both in VitaGrow. There should be enough calcium and magnesium in any nutrient line to begin with. The fact that it isn't shows how the nutrient companies are purposely leaving it out so they can sell another bottle of product. But that's an entire topic on it's own.

Anyway, since this is more a less hydro vs soil thread I just thought I would throw out a hybrid type of growing that I think many people might be interested in looking into.

3 gallon fabric pots, 100% coco coir, VitaGrow nutrients, blumat watering system, 600 watt HPS, 4 x 4 tent, 4 - 5 weeks into flower (guestimate). No runoff or CalMag for the entire grow.

what type of lighting are you using that you have never used cal mag ?

 

[xtsho]

what type of lighting are you using that you have never used cal mag ?

I grow under HPS. But I could grow under any light and not need CalMag because there are adequate amounts of both calcium and magnesium in the nutrients I use. Many of the overpriced nutrients should have but don't have adequate amounts but they all sell their own CalMag. Its not that they can't put it in their base nutrients it's because they don't want to. They would rather sell another bottle of what should be in their main product to begin with.

 

[bdt1981]

I grow under HPS. But I could grow under any light and not need CalMag because there are adequate amounts of both calcium and magnesium in the nutrients I use. Many of the overpriced nutrients should have but don't have adequate amounts but they all sell their own CalMag. Its not that they can't put it in their base nutrients it's because they don't want to. They would rather sell another bottle of what should be in their main product to begin with.

It seems i remember the reason liquid nutrient dosent have cal or mag is because it locks out other nutrient or something like that. Its been a while since i cared about that kind of thing enough to research it. Is the stuff u use expensive? Im sure they figure cost on everything they put in it. Therefore you arent getting free cal mag. Why would it be recommended to add the cal mag to your res before adding any other parts? Always wondered why they suggest u add each part in a certian order. Lockout possibilites? Idk. Seems like cal mag helps stalks stay green and not purple imo. Guess it could be something else. I just have always used the directions on the bottle and adjusted accordingly if i see issues. Never have i ever had an issue that made me adjust from the manuf recommendations. I hear some people talk about this strain liking more this or that but i had like 40 something strains growing at the same time on the same nutes and only a haze strain had issues but i think it was the higher temp that was causing it to look a bit off. Idk im tired and just thinking out loud. The price of an extra gallon i have to purchas is really pennies and shouldnt be used as a shot taken at nute companies. Everybody tryin to get rich, GOD DAMM, ALL I WANT TO DO IS LIVE. 'ALL I WANNA DO IS LIVE!!!

LOL excuse the lyrics to the korn song at the end there.

 

[xtsho]

It seems i remember the reason liquid nutrient dosent have cal or mag is because it locks out other nutrient or something like that. Its been a while since i cared about that kind of thing enough to research it. Is the stuff u use expensive? Im sure they figure cost on everything they put in it. Therefore you arent getting free cal mag. Why would it be recommended to add the cal mag to your res before adding any other parts? Always wondered why they suggest u add each part in a certian order. Lockout possibilites? Idk. Seems like cal mag helps stalks stay green and not purple imo. Guess it could be something else. I just have always used the directions on the bottle and adjusted accordingly if i see issues. Never have i ever had an issue that made me adjust from the manuf recommendations. I hear some people talk about this strain liking more this or that but i had like 40 something strains growing at the same time on the same nutes and only a haze strain had issues but i think it was the higher temp that was causing it to look a bit off. Idk im tired and just thinking out loud. The price of an extra gallon i have to purchas is really pennies and shouldnt be used as a shot taken at nute companies. Everybody tryin to get rich, GOD DAMM, ALL I WANT TO DO IS LIVE. 'ALL I WANNA DO IS LIVE!!!

LOL excuse the lyrics to the korn song at the end there.

I use dry nutrients. Specifically three parts. Part A = micronutrient blend, part B = calcium nitrate, part c = monopotassium phosphate.

Probably the reason for things lacking in liquid nutrients is because some things don't get along or get along too good. I know that when dissolved calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate don't play nice together if the concentrations are too strong, they will bind together and form gypsum.

The stuff I use is as inexpensive as it gets. Been growing great weed with it for years and never any deficiencies regardless of growing method. I use the same stuff in my garden, container flowers, houseplants, etc... Everything is growing great. Good nutrients for your plants don't have to be expensive or complicated.

 

[Mullalulla]

I grow under HPS. But I could grow under any light and not need CalMag because there are adequate amounts of both calcium and magnesium in the nutrients I use. Many of the overpriced nutrients should have but don't have adequate amounts but they all sell their own CalMag. Its not that they can't put it in their base nutrients it's because they don't want to. They would rather sell another bottle of what should be in their main product to begin with.

and there you go. Under Cmh / led is totally different than HPS. When I made the switch, and when my friend as well did ... you are gonna need to bring that cal/mag. Period.

 

[smokebros]

Flood and drain coco/hydroton grower checking in. I <3 hydroponics because it makes my life easy. I can spend more time perfecting the plants than doing laborious maintenance.

With that being said, my outdoor pepper plants are in soil. Whatever floats your boat. One isn't better than the other, it's about what is best for YOU!

 

[xtsho]

and there you go. Under Cmh / led is totally different than HPS. When I made the switch, and when my friend as well did ... you are gonna need to bring that cal/mag. Period.

If the nutrients you use have adequate amounts you don't need any additional. The type of light isn't going to matter. HPS, MH, T5's, outdoors in the sun. I've never used calmag and I don't think lighting such as CMH or LED is going to require adding additional calmag with what I'm already feeding. A plant only needs so much. I also use tap water as well which will have calcium in it. CMH and LED are not going to require any additional with the nutrients I use. The nutrients I use have calcium nitrate as the main nitrogen source and the micronutrient part is 2% magnesium sulphate. I've looked at the labeling on most popular fancy expensive nutrients and they don't have near the amount of calcium and magnesium as the nutrients I use. Add the fact that many people are using RO water and you end up with low amounts of calcium.

 

[LinguaPeel]

You absolutely cannot get sweetness levels from direct injection like you can in organic digestion. Those who try make me laugh, their bud becomes Budcandy, or "Billies basement res" which is shit smoke tainted and homogenized with products and methodologies, not the strain they grew.

Hydro growers do not have taste buds. Or they don't smoke. Only 2 options. No other reason someone would grow the shit. If their customers get ahold of real bud they lose their job, thats literally the only defense from the hydro argument.

 

[xtsho]

You absolutely cannot get sweetness levels from direct injection like you can in organic digestion. Those who try make me laugh, their bud becomes Budcandy, or "Billies basement res" which is shit smoke tainted and homogenized with products and methodologies, not the strain they grew.

Hydro growers do not have taste buds. Or they don't smoke. Only 2 options. No other reason someone would grow the shit. If their customers get ahold of real bud they lose their job, thats literally the only defense from the hydro argument.

I grow in hydro/coco and people compliment me on my weed. Many giving the compliments grow their own in soil.

I don't use any fancy nutes or additives. And I run probably half the EC most people do. Many people whether soil or hydro dump too much stuff on their plants. That's proven by all the posts of people with crops covered in dried up burnt to a crisp leaves and people commenting about how nice their grow looks. It looks like shit but in today's world it's become the norm. You can harvest fully ripe healthy bud from plants that still have green healthy leaves. You can grow excellent tasting fire both organically and hydroponically. If you dump a bunch of unnecessary nutes on your plants and over fertilize they will likely taste like garbage. That goes for both hydro and organic.

 

[bdt1981]

I use dry nutrients. Specifically three parts. Part A = micronutrient blend, part B = calcium nitrate, part c = monopotassium phosphate.

Probably the reason for things lacking in liquid nutrients is because some things don't get along or get along too good. I know that when dissolved calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate don't play nice together if the concentrations are too strong, they will bind together and form gypsum.

The stuff I use is as inexpensive as it gets. Been growing great weed with it for years and never any deficiencies regardless of growing method. I use the same stuff in my garden, container flowers, houseplants, etc... Everything is growing great. Good nutrients for your plants don't have to be expensive or complicated.

I agree. Thats why i tell beginners who are just tyingh to grow their first plants that a dry 15-30-15 at 1/3 to 1/2 strength will work. ( since that is what i did with my very first. Some the most dense nugs u ever saw for a beginner under 400watt.