LB's Wildly Mediocre DWC/ScROG Grow

[Logan Burke]

Hello everyone, thanks for stopping by! I know that grow journals are usually started from the start of a grow, but this one will be picking up roughly half way through my grow at the flip to 12/12. Just to give some background and basics:
DWC Standalone 5 gal buckets
Strain is White Rhino
Lighting is x1 1000w HPS, x2 315w CMH's
Space: 6.5x6.5x6.5FT
Nutes: Floranova Bloom from seedling to finish, accompanied by CaliMagic and Liquid Kool Bloom/DKB at the end of flower.
Now, time to get around to posting some pics for you all to see what I'm working with...
I'm always open to constructive criticism, as this is the very first ScROG I've ever done, and is the 2nd photoperiod grow that I've done after spending the past 5 years growing autoflowers. So I would love to get some advice from you other growers out there, I will keep this thread updated with new pics to document these plant's progression!
Thanks for reading, happy growing!
*EDIT* Just some info I forgot to put in; I flipped to 12/12 4-5 days ago, and the plants are already just at 10-12 weeks old. Due to some problems, veg went on longer than I wanted. I'm running a metal halide in my 1kw for the next 2 weeks to help reduce stretch and encourage shorter internodal spacing. Will switch to HPS at the end of stretch!

 

[Logan Burke]

Also, the ScROG is a 21x21 inch screen with 2x2inch squares in it. I am in the process of getting a second screen that is 24x24inches with 4 inch squares to place above the first screen as these plants have only just begun their vertical stretch! Some of the larger branches have already outgrown the screen's horizontal space, and over 3/4ths of my overall squares are taken up. Hopefully I won't have space issues!

 

[Hydro4life]

Looks good Logan! I grow this way and get great quality, big yields. Just remember that scrogging is a training method. As you’d know in dwc they grow like crazy in veg and during stretch. Make sure you keep tucking during the 1st 10 days to 2 weeks (depending on strain) my 1st scrog I made the mistake of letting them go too early and didn’t have a nice short even canopy that you want. Looks like you’ll have a nice full canopy in a couple of weeks! Make sure you have plenty of airflow and remove any undergrowth that isn’t receiving light. If your canopy is really thick, don’t be scared to do a light defol of big fans that are blocking all the little bud sites! My guess is after this grow you will ditch the autos and become a little addicted to scrogging for a while it’s an awesome technique to utilise space and lighting! I’ll take a look from time to time but the best way to learn is from trial and error. Your quality and yield will only increase over the next few scrog grows! Good luck man!

 

[Logan Burke]

Oh I have already ditched the autos after seeing these plants develop the past few weeks, I have no doubt fallen for ScROGging! I appreciate the encouraging words Hydro, you actually touched base on a couple of my concerns. Because autos don't permit very much defoliation, it is something that I'm really trying to get used too. Knowing how many leaves is too much, not enough, or somewhere in the middle is something I'm still trying to learn. I've been defoliating in 'waves', basically removing about 10% of the lower foliage every 2-3 days, but I am going to do a final session here in just a couple days and remove everything that needs to go. My biggest problem right now is that I already have over 30-40 future bud sites on each screen, and am running out of space very quickly! So, to compensate, I am trying to remove smaller budsites that will make it up to the screen by the end of stretch. Is that the right thing to do? I appreciate your reply a bunch Hydro, and am happy to have you along for the ride! I hate to ask so many questions, but I try to get all the info I can when I encounter someone who is experienced!
Happy Growing; LB

 

[Hydro4life]

Oh I have already ditched the autos after seeing these plants develop the past few weeks, I have no doubt fallen for ScROGging! I appreciate the encouraging words Hydro, you actually touched base on a couple of my concerns. Because autos don't permit very much defoliation, it is something that I'm really trying to get used too. Knowing how many leaves is too much, not enough, or somewhere in the middle is something I'm still trying to learn. I've been defoliating in 'waves', basically removing about 10% of the lower foliage every 2-3 days, but I am going to do a final session here in just a couple days and remove everything that needs to go. My biggest problem right now is that I already have over 30-40 future bud sites on each screen, and am running out of space very quickly! So, to compensate, I am trying to remove smaller budsites that will make it up to the screen by the end of stretch. Is that the right thing to do? I appreciate your reply a bunch Hydro, and am happy to have you along for the ride! I hate to ask so many questions, but I try to get all the info I can when I encounter someone who is experienced!
Happy Growing; LB

Questions are good Logan! Ask away man!
Personally I try to really make my screen full of budsites. I try to set up my scrog so each branch/cola has enough room around it to allow light all around each cola and allow airflow around each cola also. It will be tight for you space but don’t forget you are using a 1000w hps! The 1000 Watters penetrate a lot further down the canopy. So you may be able to let them grow vertically a little earlier if you have the head room?. Some people use a second net to support the the branches this way. You can also use string etc to hold the branches up mid to late flower if you have to let them go vertically a little early.
As for defoliating, everybody has their own ideas on it and how to do it.
I think your on the right track Logan, it’s all about trying to minimise stress!
Reading your plant/strain is important. Growing clone from the same plant is the way to go as you will dial it in better and learn how that plant reacts to stress,
Some strains cope better and you can be a bit more aggressive with them if you need to be. You can over defoliate and I have! I remember the 1st time I defoliate and I removed all the upper fan leaves to allow light to penetrate better (don’t do this lol) the main colas just didn’t seem to get that final bud swell!
Be selective and only remove what you have to.
Aim for removing big older fan leaves as they don’t photosynthesise like the newer growth. Big fan leaves with long purple stems are a dead give away for removal if they are blocking light from bud sites.
Also I try to defoliate evenly across the plant, for example I wouldn’t remove all the fans off one cola but leave the neighbouring cola with all its fans on.
Don’t defol too much when plants are in full flower as it will reduce yield from stress and you won’t see much bud development for possibly 3 or 4 days.
I personally just let them grow and train them under the scrog net for the 1st 2 weeks after flip, then when I start to see flowers forming I will defoliate only what I need to over that next week.
As for removing undergrowth that doesn’t receive light, I do this after flip but just take a little off each day for that first 2 weeks of stretch growth.
I’m sure I’ve missed a lot but that’s what I do and it works well for me.
Just experiment and you will learn what works best for you. It’ll take you a few runs to get the hang of it but your yields and quality will increase and improve each run!

 

[Hydro4life]

Sorry Logan, I didn’t answer your question, yes remove anything that won’t make it to the screen as they will receive little to no light and will just take energy away from the plant

 

[Logan Burke]

At the moment, I have almost all the squares filled up and I still have multiple bud sites sprouting off of each main cola, I'm thinking that I should just clip these off since there will not be a square for them to grow into? Or should I just leave them since they are at/above the screen, and just let them grow as they are? I'm having problems with branches growing out longer than my screen reaches, so I'm thinking that I'll put up a second screen that is 24x24 inches whereas my current screen is 21x21inches. Appreciate your detailed response a ton, it helps a lot! Will post newest pics at lights on, thanks again!

 

[Logan Burke]

Here is an example of how full my screen is getting, but this is from 3 days ago. I'll get brand new pics in about 5hrs at lights on. Its hard to see, but on many of the bigger cola's leaves there are 2-4 new tips trying to grow off of them, and I just don't know what to do with them other than either let them grow and trying to train them into the second screen.

 

[Hydro4life]

Here is an example of how full my screen is getting, but this is from 3 days ago. I'll get brand new pics in about 5hrs at lights on. Its hard to see, but on many of the bigger cola's leaves there are 2-4 new tips trying to grow off of them, and I just don't know what to do with them other than either let them grow and trying to train them into the second screen.

No worries Logan! Sorry for the late reply.
How many days past flip are you?
Strain looks to be a good mix of indica/sativa aye?
That’s basically the purpose of the screen is to grow everything horizontally to allow all shoots on that branch to grow vertically. And if your plants are big enough, you will have to train those shoots to grow horizontally too, and shoots will grow vertically off those shoots if that makes sense? The key to a good scrog from my experience is to really fill that canopy up with heaps of bud sites and create an even canopy!
This way you will optimise your lighting!
SOGs are awesome too but a lot of work with DWC. The principle is the same!
The height you let you canopy grow vertically depends a lot on your lights you are using. (You can grow your scrog a little higher from the scrog net as you are using a 1000w which has awesome light penetration!)
Another thing you can do if you have run out of horizontal room is let them grow taller if you have the head room and at harvest time, harvest the top head buds 1st, drop the light a bit and give the buds underneath more time to densen, swell and ripen.
And yes you will need to support them somehow if you have to do it this way as they will eventually just flop over each other.
Also I always grow outside of my scrog net. As long as you have enough quality light coverage then an extra branch 2 inches apart from each other, right around the perimeter of your scrog net will add a lot to your final yield!

 

[Logan Burke]

Yes that makes sense! The strain is White Rhino, which is alledged to be nearly pure Indica (90/10 indica/sativa if memory serves). I'm getting close to 10-12 days past flip, I'll have to check my notes to get a precise date though. I feel like their stretch really hasn't started yet though, which is a scary thought considering that these babies only have a few more feet of upward growth before they'll start getting too close to the light. I've been using a MH bulb along with my CMH/LEC lights though to reduce stem growth and stretch, hopefully it helps. I am going to do as you said and likely do two harvests, and just put up a second screen which I've already purchased, but instead of being a 21x21 inch screen with 2x2 inch squares, the second one will be 24x24inches with 4x4inch holes which should be more suitable for large stems and colas. What do you mean when you say you always grow outside of your scrog net? As in, you always have branches that grow out further than your screen reaches? Thanks a million for the help, apologies for the delay in response!!!
This is just showing an example of how I have multiple budsites coming off of one of my largest branches that has already outgrown the length of my scrog screen. Should I just leave them be and allow it to stay at the edge of my screen? I could try bending the new budsites inwards back towards the scrog? This is, at the moment, my most confusing problem.

 

[Hydro4life]

Yes that makes sense! The strain is White Rhino, which is alledged to be nearly pure Indica (90/10 indica/sativa if memory serves). I'm getting close to 10-12 days past flip, I'll have to check my notes to get a precise date though. I feel like their stretch really hasn't started yet though, which is a scary thought considering that these babies only have a few more feet of upward growth before they'll start getting too close to the light. I've been using a MH bulb along with my CMH/LEC lights though to reduce stem growth and stretch, hopefully it helps. I am going to do as you said and likely do two harvests, and just put up a second screen which I've already purchased, but instead of being a 21x21 inch screen with 2x2 inch squares, the second one will be 24x24inches with 4x4inch holes which should be more suitable for large stems and colas. What do you mean when you say you always grow outside of your scrog net? As in, you always have branches that grow out further than your screen reaches? Thanks a million for the help, apologies for the delay in response!!!View attachment 4360637
This is just showing an example of how I have multiple budsites coming off of one of my largest branches that has already outgrown the length of my scrog screen. Should I just leave them be and allow it to stay at the edge of my screen? I could try bending the new budsites inwards back towards the scrog? This is, at the moment, my most confusing problem.

Yea exactly man, so its like my scrog is a couple of inches bigger all around. But if you are putting in a bigger net next time round you may not have the horizontal room or light coverage to do it and may not need to. Just might of helped you this run...? Yea I’d just leave them now and let them grow vertically for another week towards the light. Don’t tuck those nodes your talking about as they will all form together and become big head buds that should be a foot or more above your screen. Looks really good! If it was me I’d just watch them grow for another week then after that week do a little defoliating, removing a small chunk of your big, large light blocking fan leaves. Depending on how thick your canopy is will depend on how many leaves need to be removed. Something I look at is the light on the floor. I like the floor under my canopy to have a very minimal amount of light on it (not completely shaded) but not enough light on the floor to be wasting it, if that makes sense? That way I know I have light all the way through my canopy. Also if my plants aren’t the healthiest I go a little easier on the defol. But yours look good!!
So yeah, let it go for a week, sit back, relax and then re assess.

 

[Logan Burke]

Yeah Hydro I am just adding the second screen for this grow alone, had I not veggied these plants sooooo long the 21x21 inch screen would've been plenty enough. I agree that I really don't have room for a much bigger screen above each bucket, and with it being summer time I'm having a hard time running both of my 315w cmh's alongside my 1kw HPS/MH, but worst case scenario, I'll just have some of my big branches outgrow the screen, I suppose I will just try my best to tuck the fan leaves that are blocking the half dozen budsites surrounding each of the large branches that are on the outside of the screen already. Sounds like I have a plan though, I'm (finally!) getting little buds/preflowers, which is great but it is also making me worry that the real stretch is just now starting haha. Will post some pics after I tend to them in a bit!

 

[Hydro4life]

Yeah Hydro I am just adding the second screen for this grow alone, had I not veggied these plants sooooo long the 21x21 inch screen would've been plenty enough. I agree that I really don't have room for a much bigger screen above each bucket, and with it being summer time I'm having a hard time running both of my 315w cmh's alongside my 1kw HPS/MH, but worst case scenario, I'll just have some of my big branches outgrow the screen, I suppose I will just try my best to tuck the fan leaves that are blocking the half dozen budsites surrounding each of the large branches that are on the outside of the screen already. Sounds like I have a plan though, I'm (finally!) getting little buds/preflowers, which is great but it is also making me worry that the real stretch is just now starting haha. Will post some pics after I tend to them in a bit!

Awesome man!
Yep, tuck leaves if you can but I find it better just removing them sometimes as the fans you keep tucking tend to just rest on each other and don’t get any light anyway (especially indica dominant strains) if high humidity is a bit of a problem, then removing them will help! And also help with airflow through your canopy.
Looking forward to a few pics.
Looks like you’ve got a good plan Logan!

 

[Logan Burke]

Thanks to you I do haha, here are the pics from last night. Definitely some preflowers showing, with any luck my second set of screens will get here soon as these babies are reaching for the sky. Oh and I forgot to mention earlier, if one of the plants looks a bit smaller than the others it's because it is. I had a seed stall out 1 week into the grow and had to pop another, so I have one that's 1 week younger than the rest. It actually turned out to be the perfect size for my ScROG though.

 

[Hydro4life]

Looking good Logan!
Just make sure you’ve filled any gaps where light will be hitting the floor to make the most of your lighting
Looks like you’ve got heaps of bud sites!
And plants are healthy.
Will be interesting to see how they look in another week.
The smaller plant that’s a week behind should fill that space in rather nicely I’d say

 

[Logan Burke]

Thank ya! Yeah I think that it is about the perfect size for the screens I have. I'm trying to get the squares in the very center of the screen filled in, but it seems like I don't really have a lot of budsites coming up in the direct center, I'm thinking about trying to tuck some of the newer, younger budsites around the edge of the screen towards the center but didn't know if that was a no-no.

 

[Logan Burke]

Hey Hydro (or anyone else willing to give advice), would you snip the bud sites that are barely under the first screen in this pic? They're between .5" and 1inch away from reaching the first screen, and the very center of my screen does have some empty squares to fill. I wasn't sure if I should leave them as they're so close to the screen and all. I'm about to do one of the plant's final defoliation/budsite removal sessions today, but wasn't sure how to proceed with those handful of bud sites. Thanks in advance!

 

[Stltoed]

Looks good man!

 

[Logan Burke]

Thanks Stltoed!

 

[Stltoed]

Thank ya! Yeah I think that it is about the perfect size for the screens I have. I'm trying to get the squares in the very center of the screen filled in, but it seems like I don't really have a lot of budsites coming up in the direct center, I'm thinking about trying to tuck some of the newer, younger budsites around the edge of the screen towards the center but didn't know if that was a no-no.

I dont worry about the new stuff in the middle, I usually trim it away, the good stuff usually gets trained to the outside, if you can train some back towards the middle, where the primo light is, you might find it beneficial