First cycle in Hydroton, are my plants overwatered?

[Woodsy92]

Hey guys an gals! Sorry for the lengthy post, this is my first and want to give as much info as I can. I need help !

This is my second grow coming off the back of a successful first go at a DWC. I encountered many problems when running DWC but managed to overcome them to a nice harvest.

I then went on to purchase 3 Wilma units (12 sites) and planned to fill them with Hydroton as I wanted a “less finicky” way of growing. This has not been my experience so far and I’m wishing I stayed with DCW.
I will start from the beginning and give a brief overview:
12 seeds popped in rapid rooter and left to veg for a week before placing them into the Hydroton filled containers of the Wilma. All was amazing for 2 weeks with good growth and lovely looking leaves.
The mistake I believe I have made is running the drip rings on a constant flow (not a drip like it’s supposed to be). Now coming from DWC and hearing Hydroton is impossible to over-water, I presumed this would be fine with the two air stones I have in each Rez. One day I came into my room to find some very sad looking plants. After doing some research I came to the conclusion they were starved of oxygen (overwatered), dropping steams and leaves with some purpling on the stems. It seems as the light cycle goes on, the plants droop more and recover when they have rested through the dark period. Since observing these symptoms I have cut back on the frequency and amount of water to one feed at the begging of lights on for 15 mins and changed from using H202 to a bacterial res. This was 10 days ago and nothing has changed other than a few nutrient deficiencies which is to be expected under the circumstances.

Temps : lights on- 26c Lights off 20c

Nutrients : silicon, GH trio, cal mag, beneficial bacteria added recently and Rhizotonic.

Ph : drifts from 5.6- 6.2 slowly before I bring it down.

Lights 4x 600w with 2x kind 750 LEDs at appropriate distances.

Relative Humility is around 55 with a humidifier on controller.

Air is constantly replaced with a large box fan overrated for my room size.

I have no idea what I am doing wrong? I have invested so much time in dialling in my environment and don’t no why I haven’t seen improvements.

If someone could also help me with uploading some photos from my iPhone that would be great?

Thank you for taking the time to read my post!

 

[Woodsy92]

I figured out how to upload photos for you guys to see...

The 4th and 5th photo is to show how the plants looked before whatever is happening right now. The photos were taken an hour before lights out.

Any help would be very appreciated

 

[Woodsy92]

When I was using h202 my chiller was set at 19c, now I am running beneficial bacteria it is set at 23c, maybe 19c was too cold for the roots?

Also forgot to mention my PPM is very low at 250. I have kept it this way as the plants were stressed and didn’t want to push them, could this actually be causing the problem?

 

[myke]

To me looks like the over watered look. No air. These systems can be finicky. If it were me I’d just pull them out and set up a 4 pail rdwc. So much easier. You could probably use a lot the parts to convert over.
Sorry I’m no help.

 

[ToFarGone]

Does look droopy for sure

 

[myke]

Ok so had a re read. This is an hour before lights off? If so it’s normal there tired they worked all day. If not then I’m missing the question

 

[Woodsy92]

Thanks for your replies guys, I do really appreciate it. I really don’t want to pull them out now, even if they are young, unless they get worse.
I did think it could be a normal response to the light cycle ( plants preparing for rest ) but the larger fan leaves have never recovered and never stood back up. They were so healthy before (picture 4) I know there is something wrong.
Do you think I should allow the Hydroton to dry out even more? Maybe do 2 light cycles without water ?

 

[myke]

Reading posts around here. I get no watering in the dark period. If your top feed maybe 3 cycles when lights on. So 15 min on 4-5 hr off kinda thing.

 

[myke]

Also with that low of food and all that Hydroton do u find it’s hard to keep ph down?

 

[Jypsy Dog]

See how your tank numbers track. Might set you back on course.

 

[Woodsy92]

Thank you Myke and Jypsy dog for your suggestions . That table is very interesting I have saved it for my records. I think” I got pretty good at preparing my nutrient solution last run with the DWC and have a basic knowledge of chemistry. My water is very soft so the little salts I have in the solution are enough to buffer the PH enough I don’t have too mich trouble keeping it stable, maybe 5 drops of PH down in each res daily. Is that quite a lot of acid to be dumping in there ? Maybe this is the problem? I have tested the run off and it comes out a little higher than the res, not a concern I think. I have seen improvements this evening but know I will come back to the same droopy sadness I do every morning .. I will snap a few pics in a second.

I struggle to get the flow rate of my drippers to a drip, they are more like a flow of water. Will this bombard the roots and cause my issues? My train of thought was that if I was oxygenating the water enough I could flow the water constantly over the root like a DWC .. thanks again chaps!

 

[Jypsy Dog]

Maybe your under watering...
https://university.upstartfarmers.com/blog/pros-cons-hydroton-hydroponics

 

[Woodsy92]

This is the best i have seen them for a while which has filled me with hope. Although the older leaves are still dropping the new growth looks perky.. The second photo is flavour chasers Gelato which have stood up to the overwatering the best. I will post some more photos in the morning so you can see how different the picture is after 18hours of light.

 

[Woodsy92]

Thank you for the post Gypsy Dog. I have read articles similar to this and it completely stumped me. Everywhere I read says you can irrigate Hydroton continuously, so I thought it wouldn’t be a problem especially as I am aerating the res with pumps and air stones. My plants seem to be showing all the signs of overwater so I have cut right back on feeding and am scared to feed more than once in the light cycle.
Do you think I had the flow rate way too high in the beginning? As I mentioned in the first post I continually watered at a fair rate (not a drip). Would this drown the roots even if I was using air stones ?

 

[ToFarGone]

I read I post a while back and I don’t know where the hell I read it but it stated the reason for someone’s drooping was he was running way to low ppm. He went on to call everyone idiots so the post got out of hand but just a thought?

 

[Jypsy Dog]

Thank you for the post Gypsy Dog. I have read articles similar to this and it completely stumped me. Everywhere I read says you can irrigate Hydroton continuously, so I thought it wouldn’t be a problem especially as I am aerating the res with pumps and air stones. My plants seem to be showing all the signs of overwater so I have cut right back on feeding and am scared to feed more than once in the light cycle.
Do you think I had the flow rate way too high in the beginning? As I mentioned in the first post I continually watered at a fair rate (not a drip). Would this drown the roots even if I was using air stones ?

I would think a steady steam would be an issue, but then you have NFT that runs at a pretty heavy rate. So I really don't know. I've never gone full Hydrotone so I will see what you can find. Good Luck.
But try logging your numbers and check that chart. I think you might learn something.

 

[Jypsy Dog]

Lights 4x 600w with 2x kind 750 LEDs at appropriate distances.

And what is this distance??

 

[Woodsy92]

I read I post a while back and I don’t know where the hell I read it but it stated the reason for someone’s drooping was he was running way to low ppm. He went on to call everyone idiots so the post got out of hand but just a thought?

I think it is worth me raising the PPM, they are a reasonable size now so they should be able to take it and you never know, it may be the issue here. I will report back if I change anything ... maybe it will help someone in my position.

I will get an exact measurement as per light distance for you. I am new to using metal halide so

 

[Woodsy92]

Maybe I have the distance wrong. It could make sense as they perk back up when lights have been out for a while. I don’t see the tail tail signs of light burn but I will measure the light distance and you guys can let me know if I should raise them? Thanks again people !!

 

[myke]

I’ve removed plants from top feed Hydroton after 3 or so weeks of veg With running 24//7 feed I found the roots stringy. I think the problem is once the roots find the stream they stay. They don’t search and branch out as much.