Need help First DWC
- Thread starter ZeOdekoza
- Start date
smokeybandit22
Well-Known Member
damn. are you feeding nutes and if so what kind. what is your ph? I see light getting into resevoir-real bad for root development
Roseman
Elite Rolling Society
Roseman's Tips, Tricks and Troubleshooting Guide for BUBBLEPONICS
Reading the Instructions
Every time we hear, read or receive a complaint about a problem with the StealthHydro Bubbleponics System, it was because the person did not read and fully understand all of the instructions, or they did not understand what the system is all about. This TIPS, TRICKS and this TROUBLESHOOTING GUIDE should answer and help you with any problem you might encounter.
Keeping Size in Perspective
This system was not designed to row six 6-foot tall Christmas Trees. (Although we have grown 3 plants, 3, 4 and 5 feet tall in one tank.) We have heard a few growers tell us "I just realized that the 6 plants are going to get very crowded after they get 3 or 4 feet tall". This system was not designed for 6 giant plants. There is a reason that the tank is 21 and a half inches long. When this system was originally designed, many factors went into deciding what size tank and pumps to use. The main factors were economy, simplicity, stealthness, and making sure the tank would fit into the end of a small closet, out of the way and out of sight. We've heard of a few growers that try to change to a much larger tank, and realize how much more work and trouble is involved in using a larger tank and moving larger quantities of water. Draining and replenishing the water can be a major task in a much larger tank. Not only are more larger and expensive air and water pumps needed for a larger tank, but larger pumps make more noise. Draining and cleaning a larger tank is a ton of work and trouble too. If you want to go with a bigger system, then connect two tanks together. And if you want to grow large plants, then start them in the Bubbleponics System, then transfer them into the Bucketeer Large Bucket DWC system. Or do like most growers do and just grow 2 or 3 large plants in one tank by selecting and keeping the more desirable three plants and disposing of the other three.
Growing the Stealth Hydro Way
The StealthHydro Bubbleponics System was designed to be "stealth" and to be very efficient, quiet, small, simple, easy to use, and inexpensive. The designer of this system had the beginner or novice in mind, because it is so simple and easy to use. But as we have continued to grow with the system and grow in experience, we've come to know you can not improve on it. The system is designed to grow six small plants very fast and easy, under the umbrella of two Dual Spectrum lights, in a two square foot space.
Dirty Water?
We hear from a few growers having trouble with the water becoming cloudy or brown. Upon asking questions, we learn they did not rinse the hydroton rocks as completely as they should have. You should put the hydroton rocks in a large mixing bowl full of water, and pour them through a colander five or six times until the water pours out crystal clear and clean of hydroton dust. You should also pour water over and through the rocks several times in the colander.
Algae Prevention
We also hear from a few growers allowing algae to grow in their tank and becoming a problem. This can happen from several mistakes but can easily be remedied. (see our 8 Step Remedy) You can not allow a dead root or fallen leaf to stay in the tank and decay. You can not allow the lights to shine into the water through the rocks. If the grow cup is full of rocks, the lights can not penetrate through the cups. And most important, you have to start with clean, pure water. You can not use rain water, or water from a stream, river or lake. You should exchange the water after the first ten days, and then every 10 to 14 days as you grow. As the plants get over 12 inches tall, exchanging the water every 7 days is more efficient. Your water should smell like clean green alfalfa sprouts. With added GROW nutrients, it has a slightly green tint. If you detect an unpleasant odor, you have waited too long to drain and exchange the water. When you do replenish the water and nutrients, you should look for and remove any dead roots that were accidentally torn from the plant. You can use chlorinated city tap water. Some growers even recommend it for it's purity. The chlorine dissipates fast and is never a problem. You can use RH filtered water, or store bought distilled or spring water. If you use well water or detect algae growing in your tank, you can add 1/6 teaspoon of Hydrogen Peroxide per gallon of water to your tank as a cure or preventative. Never use more than a level teaspoon per tank of 6 gallons of water.
We have seen books that advised allowing chlorinated water to first sit for 24 hours. Not only is this not necessary, this is bad advise, and encourages algae to start growing in your water. We have done tests and the chlorine dissipate within minutes from the tap. Do not use water that sat out and uncovered or was stored.
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pH Problems
If you have a PH problem, you simply did something wrong. You should make sure that the PH of the water going into the tank is very close to 6.5. Anything between 5.8 and 6.8 is OK, but 6.5 works best. When you first set up your tank, you should do a PH test on your water before adding the water to the tank, using the enclosed PH test strips. Then adjust the water with PH UP or PH DOWN before it goes into the tank. That way, the PH perfect nutrients will work best. It can be dangerous to adjust the PH in the tank, especially if you overly adjust it. It is also dangerous to adjust it frequently. A very slight adjustment is OK, but if you change it drastically in the tank by using a large amount of PH UP or PH DOWN, you are taking a big risk of seriously harming your plants. If you do a test on your tank's water and it is extremely out of range from 5.8 to 6.8, then it is best to drain it and replenish it with PH corrected water and nutrients. (see the 8 Step Remedy) Let us repeat, you should add the nutrients to PH perfect water to start with. If you insist on adjusting it in the tank slightly, then use no more than 1/2 level teaspoon of PH UP or PH DOWN to the tank, and no more frequently than 4 hours apart. Plants do not adjust well to rapid changes in PH levels. The results can be Nutritional Lockout. Remember, if you make a mistake then you can easily and rapidly correct it, by using the 8 Step Remedy.
Mixing the Nutrients
We have had growers tell us "when I throw in a packet of nutrients into my tank, they just settle to the bottom and don't dissolve". That is not the proper way to introduce the nutrients and feed your plants. These nutrients are natural elements and not made to perfectly dissolve in water. For example, seashells are not ever going to completely dissolve in water, no matter how much they are pulverized, but are an excellent source of calcium. You should add the packets to a quart jar half full of warm water and stir them rapidly, mixing them as well as possible in the water. Then pour them through a tea strainer or some kind of mesh screen or filter, to filter out the small particles that did not dissolve. Then add the nutrient water mix to the tank.
Always remember when you first start and set up your system, you should start with 1/4 of a packet of GROW nutes, if you are starting with seeds, sprouts or baby seedlings. If you started with clones or baby plants, then start with half a packet of Grow nutes. Your plants should be about 3 inches tall, before you use the nutrients full strength. Then stand back and watch for a growth explosion!
Nutrient and Water Flow
We hear concerns from new growers that the water is not flowing rapidly or strongly from the ends of the tubes into the rockwool cubes. A strong flow is not necessary at all. A slight trickle (bubbling) is all that is needed to keep the rockwool cube moist and the baby roots fed until they reach into the deep water. You do need to check for crimps and folds in the water tubes, especially when you first set up your system.
Keeping It Simple
The biggest mistake that we have seen anyone make starts with "I wonder what will happen if I add miracle nutrients, or cat urine, or molasses" or a dozen other crazy things that we have heard growers try. If you do not know what will happen, don't try it unless you are prepared to start all over because you killed your plants. Experimentation is great, but caution and moderation are the keys to success.
Oxygen Is the Most Important Aspect of Bubbleponics
The best tip we can offer from experience is the importance of air or oxygen in the water. It is not required or necessary for good health of plants, but the addition of a 2nd air stone can make a difference in the speed of growth. You can use a plastic T-coupler so you can add a second stone to the one air pump. You can force growth spurts by draining the tank, waiting five or ten minutes to allow the roots to "air out" and then replenishing the water, even if you add back the same water and nutrient mix that you just drained out. Try it!
There are several ways to drain your tank by the way. One is by adding the drain plug or faucet. Or you can obtain a plastic hose like you can get at the aquarium store to drain your aquarium, and siphon the water out. Another way is to attach the hose to the submersible pump, using your fist as a coupling, and simply allow the pump to pump it out into a bucket.
Diagnosis and Recuperation Guide
We'll discuss some signs of illness first, then offer remedies for Recuperation and Recovery.
Both new leaves and mature leaves are the best indicators to determine how healthy your plants are. Any problem or illness will first manifest itself in the appearance of your leaves. These problems almost always originate from the plant's environment, PH imbalance or over-feeding and under feeding. These problems always result in what is called "nutritional lock-out".
Nutritional Lockout
Allow us to GIVE you a simplified definition of NUTRIONAL LOCKOUT.
Can you imagine sitting a plate before a child at dinner time, with his most favorite food, hot dogs, ketchup and french fries? But also on the plate is a major portion of steamed broccoli, which he is just not fond of and insists on nibbling on. Now imagine telling that child, "you can not eat the hot dog and fries if you do not eat all the broccoli too". NUTRITONAL LOCKOUT is when the child responds with "well then, I just won't eat!"
Stealth-Hydro's nutrients are both nutritionally and PH balanced. But after being in your tank for 5 or 6 days, and being eaten from for 5 or 6 days, they become imbalanced. Perhaps you are growing plants that ate all the nitrogen first and just snacked around the iron, magnesium and calcium, or visa versa. The results are discoloration in the leaves, yellowing or rust spots, or curling up of leaf tips. It also becomes apparent when your plants were consuming a gallon or half gallon of water every day, and then suddenly when you check the levels the next day, they did not drink any water at all. This is NUTRITIONAL LOCKOUT.
Instead of giving lengthy descriptions of indications of overfeeding, underfeeding, ph imbalance, environmental problems and Nutritional Lockout here, it is easier to just give the remedy. Here we will refer to this remedy as THE RECUPERATION AND RECOVERY REMEDY.
THE 8 STEP RECUPERATION AND RECOVERY REMEDY
1. Check the roots. If they are discolored, reddish or brown, or present an unpleasant odor, you have a problem. If they are weak, soft or mushy, you have a problem. Also while checking the roots, observe the temperature of the water. If it is warmer than "luke warm" you have a problem. This problem is probably what is referred to as "root rot" or a disease known as PYTHIUM. Remove the dead brown roots by trimming them away with sharp scissors. Do not leave them in the tank.
2. Check the humidity and temperature of the grow area below the lights in the "growing zone" when the lights are on. A temperature of above 82 degrees or below 67 degrees will slow growth, but it is not a serious problem that will kill your plants. Temperatures below 62 degrees or above 90 degrees will stop growth. An extremely high temperature in the upper 90s or below 58 degrees can slowly result in death of your plants. The most efficient temps for growth are between 72 to 80 degrees. Any Humidity between 40 and 60 percent is acceptable and desirable.
3. Check the "lights off, nighttime" temperature. Most desirable is ten to 15 degrees cooler than the daytime "lights on" temperature, averaging 66 to 70 degrees.
4. Check the distance between the tips of the plant and the tip of the light bulb. If you observe yellowing or leaf curling tips, then move the lights one inch further away. A good rule of thumb if you use HID lights, is hold the soft palm of your hand at the leaf tip and see if the bulb is too warm to your hand. If you use Stealth Hydro's compact fluorescent bulbs, we recommend a distance of three or four inches for the 65 and 85 watt bulbs and 4 inches to five inches for the 105 watt bulbs. More mature plants can handle the bulbs slightly closer.
5. Check the position of your fans. Air movement is very necessary for the health of your plants, but too strong of a fan can cause wind burn. Direct your fan toward the tops of the plants and toward the lights. Never position the fan blowing strongly downward on the leaves.
6. Add 1/4 teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide to a quart of water and add it to the tank of six gallons already in the tank. Wait ten minutes and then turn the water and nutrition solution pump off to prepare to drain the tank. Poor at least a cup of clean water through each grow cup, onto each rockwool cube and through the hydroton rocks.
7. Drain or pump the tank empty as possible without damaging the pump by running it dry. Add two gallons of additional clean water with 1/4 teaspoon of hydrogen peroxide again and then drain it away too. Again, empty the tank as empty as possible without burning up your pump.
8. Add fresh PH balanced water and nutritional packets as prescribed. PH test it again.
The above 8 steps should repair and remedy any health problems that your plants experienced within the next two days. Now is the time to try and determine what caused the problem to start with, by investigating and researching typical hydroponics problems and illnesses. Here are a few DIAGNOSIS TIPS.
Typical Hydroponics Problems and Illnesses
Underfeeding and Weak Nutrition
The entire plant, both upper and lower leaves, will show lime or light green in color.
The plant will not eat, drink or show growth.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.
Overfeeding, Use of Too Strong Nutrients
The leaves will curl downward. They grow very dark dull flat green and then the tips show signs of burn.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.
Nutritional Lockout
You know that you have made recent PH adjustments. You might know you may have used too much of the PH Adjustment Solution. You may have failed to test the PH often enough. You notice the plants did not eat or drink because they did not consume the same amount of water they used yesterday. You see rust spots. The large lower leaves are prematurely dying and you are not in the BLOOMING or FLOWERING stage.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.
Wind Burn
You had the fan blowing downward toward the upper side of the leaves, instead of blowing up through the node spaces or toward the lights. You observe the leaves becoming dry or even crispy, perhaps shriveling, and the tips curling upward. The leaves do not appear glossy, moist and vibrant.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.
Water, Nutrition Solution or Roots Are Discolored Brown Or Have an Unpleasant Odor
You notice your water is becoming brownish in color, or smells distasteful. Your solution does not smell pleasant and appetizing like fresh lettuce. Your roots are not the same shade of white that they once were a week ago.
It is time to follow the 8 Step Remedy.
ZeOdekoza
Active Member
nutes yes B & C nutes. my ph is around 6.5-7
koolhand77
Well-Known Member
I dont' know what that whole roseman thing was. didn't even read it. how big is your res? what is the temp of the water? your ph is way to high you want it to b at 5.5 climbing to 6 range. do you have a bubble stone in the bottom of your res? how old r the plants? what type of nutes you using? how close is the water to the bottom of the cup. Very vag with whats going on the detirmin whats wrong.
smokeybandit22
Well-Known Member
I agree with coolhand. ph is waaaay to high-5.5-5.8 max for dwc. and nutes should be light,real light if any. correct the ph asap and cut back the nutes. also answer coolhand ???'s about temp and res.
ZeOdekoza
Active Member
My res is 25 gallon filled to about 10-15 gallon. i do not have any ph up or down so is there anyway to adjust the ph without up or down i heard somewhere that vinager acts as ph down but im not sure if its true.yes i have 2 bubble disks i have a 6 inch and a 4 inch disk. they are about 2 weeks old. im using technafloras B.C. nutes and at about 1/4 strength. the water is about 6 inches from the bottom of the net pot.
smokeybandit22
Well-Known Member
walmart sells a ph kit for around $10.00. I suggest you pick one up as ph IS THE MOST IMPORTANT FACTOR. also pick up another air stone-maybe a larger one. how long are the roots from the bottom of the net cup? 6" IMHO is too low. the idea is to grow them out by keeping the water level right at the end of the tips. ph should be 5.7-5.8-anything higher or lower will definately lead to nute lockout. you need to act fast as they are not looking good.
koolhand77
Well-Known Member
he's not going to have that many roots right now with the size of his plants. Ph is key right now. your water level is way to low. you want that water level 1/2 below your cups. The ph kits that you buy at walmart or pet stores don't give you an accurate reading you want to get one from a hydro store or get one on line. I just had one shipped to me with the up and down solution for 17.50.
Your gonna be able to go up quick with your nutes depending on how fast your plant grows so don't worry about that you might want to go to 3/8 th strength or 1/2. I did 1/4 till they had 2 sets of new leaves then brought it up alittle at a time.
Your gonna be able to go up quick with your nutes depending on how fast your plant grows so don't worry about that you might want to go to 3/8 th strength or 1/2. I did 1/4 till they had 2 sets of new leaves then brought it up alittle at a time.
koolhand77
Well-Known Member
looking at your plants again you should probably flush them out for a day then change res and add nutes with the correct PH water. VERY IMPORANT
smokeybandit22
Well-Known Member
well I simply disagree with the roots. They should have extensive roots if they were born in DWC. clones in DWC are often 4-5 times the length of the plant itself. Hence, why would he have the water 6" below if there were only an inch worth of roots? Even if born in rockwool from seed and than transplanted to DWC they should still have lengthy,albeit not very full, roots. The tap root will search out the bottom of the pot 9 times out of 10 if given enough time and depth of the resevoir.
also temps in resevoir just as important as PH. more than 78 degrees and there goes your dissolved oxygen which will stop any nute uptake or slow it to a crawl.
also temps in resevoir just as important as PH. more than 78 degrees and there goes your dissolved oxygen which will stop any nute uptake or slow it to a crawl.
Roseman
Elite Rolling Society
If you have FEEDER TUBES running from a underwater pump, pumping water and nutes to each cup, then that is called Bubbleponics.
You can use Baking Soda to adjust that ph, but just use 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of water, at a time. Do NOT adjsut it oftne or a lot in one day.
The roots should have an inch of air pocket and then be in the bubbling water.
ZeOdekoza
Active Member
Well the roots are already half an inch out of the bottom of the net pot. temp is very cool to the touch dont know exact will check later.
smokeybandit22
Well-Known Member
well go pick up a cheap ph test kit while you order one online. the Hanna checker is around 35.00 and you will need ph buffer solution 7.0 as well. GIVEN THE CONDITION YOUR PLANTS ARE IN, AT THE LEAST USE A CHEAP PH TESTER KIT-they do work and are fairly accurate if you view the sample under normal lighting. better than nothing. unless your local hyrdo store sells a ph tester, online will take about a week if you dont want to shell out the 35 for 2nd day air. ph needs to be around 5.6-5.8. listen to coolhand and flush and replace with ph water and 1/4 nutes.
what are you waiting for? walmart open 24 hours. wait a week and risk the chance of them continuing a healthy life.
what are you waiting for? walmart open 24 hours. wait a week and risk the chance of them continuing a healthy life.
smokeybandit22
Well-Known Member
and the only thing I can find only for the silver is the following. worth a look:
Thrips
"Thrips are really tiny, but can be seen by the naked eye. Some may have wings and some may not. Thrips reproduce rapidly, especially in tight places. That is what makes them hard to get rid of when using pesticides. The suck the sap right out of your plant with there piercing mouths, which makes the leaves look like they turned white. You can tell when you have thrips by taking a look at your leaves, the leaves will look as if there chlorophyll have been ripped right off the plant. Plants that are damaged can’t be healed thus making it harder for the plant to absorb light. SO if left untreated the thrips will kill the plants. Damage also can be seen by the greenish black specks of there poop they leave on leaves. Also the plants will show silver patchs from scar tissue. Depending on the severity at first, thrip damage might look like spider mite damage untill it increases in damage and then thrips case is for sure when you see the greenness replace with big parts of white."
Thrips
"Thrips are really tiny, but can be seen by the naked eye. Some may have wings and some may not. Thrips reproduce rapidly, especially in tight places. That is what makes them hard to get rid of when using pesticides. The suck the sap right out of your plant with there piercing mouths, which makes the leaves look like they turned white. You can tell when you have thrips by taking a look at your leaves, the leaves will look as if there chlorophyll have been ripped right off the plant. Plants that are damaged can’t be healed thus making it harder for the plant to absorb light. SO if left untreated the thrips will kill the plants. Damage also can be seen by the greenish black specks of there poop they leave on leaves. Also the plants will show silver patchs from scar tissue. Depending on the severity at first, thrip damage might look like spider mite damage untill it increases in damage and then thrips case is for sure when you see the greenness replace with big parts of white."
ZeOdekoza
Active Member
does that adjust the ph up or down?
koolhand77
Well-Known Member
I don't know I guess it does I would rather be sure you know what I mean. It's so cheap for a test kit. It's wprth the money to get one. your gonna have to come up with your water level as you it's stated above. I did everything I could do to make sure my plants grew, If your serious about doing this i suggest the same.
smokeybandit22
Well-Known Member
or keep listening to Roseman. as you are. game over.
ZeOdekoza
Active Member
not sayin i am not sayin im not but if baking soda can save me a couple of bucks and it works then ill save a couple bucks