The Importance of Voting

[ccodiane]

at this point in time its anybody but mccain not because of mccain palin scares me more than obama and anybody else i might as well not bother were not far enough along for an alternate candidate or id prolly vote nader ill prolly get jumped for this post but its honest

So, you're voting Obama, you don't have hope, and Palin scares the hell out of you....

More power to you!

I agree with your third party assessment. We'll see what the percentage is, but, we've seen over the last few hundred years, if that qualifies as an indicator, that two parties tend to dominate. I don't know who a third party would replace at this point. Better to place your weight where it's most needed. Go Obama! Go McCain!

 

[Dfunk]

That's cool seamaiden - everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just don't think anyone should be telling anyone what to do. When I say we are uncivilized I simply mean that humans have not learned & I hate to say this probably never will to live in harmony with one another to help our species advance. We don't have to be governed we chose to be by doing things like voting. This is the reason I don't vote. I will not knowingly support a system of control & corruption. I'd rather die. So if I lived in a dictatorship I guess I would be killed. I live here & I want what most people want in my opinion, but I don't believe voting for these puppets we are given is going to accomplish that. Only love can overcome...I mean love for each other not love for an idea.

 

[shimmer]

Hey Dfunk..I can identify with your lack of hope regarding the choices on offer. I was part of the hopeful throng protesting the wto's agenda in Seattle in 1999. I witnessed first-hand the violent tactics employed by the authorities when they were faced with valid contradiction. The 1st amendment was seen in all its glory for what it was...debatable. While the debate was taking place it was outright suspended.

I have until recently played the game of better or worse in my own head when faced with unsavoury choices, and it's easy to see how sitting calmly and doing nothing i.e. looking after oneself, ones family and friends, seems so attractive. These so called choices don't feel like choices, it feels more like being coralled.

With regard to really thinking about the candidates TheBrutalTruth, what is really to think about? Neither candidate will offer anything that is both radical and to be celebrated. I'm sure that despite our differences(all the folks on these forums), there are certain things we would all agree on. Medical Babyjane would be a great start. It's radical, we all know it's right that people with health disadvantages should be free to use herbal messages from God or Richard Dawkins, but these people won't touch even that. Think about it folks, what would be the harm to the people who oppose medical Mj?... less control and less profit. I find it hard to imagine a decent American who would deny a sick person their medicine, but the choices on offer will continue to do so. We are asked to vote for people who would deny us the right to have our pain soothed and our minds opened in our very last days by a fucking PLANT. Pathetic.

The path is set folks, none of these pricks will steer us away from doom, we're a pheonix craning his neck in a vain attempt to blow out the flames on her arse. If Nader and Paul were going at it, then it would be worth involving thought.

 

[shimmer]

Oh, for the record, i'd vote Obama. I have a fantasy, Black NY neighbourhood bar, few drinks, good weed, couple a lines of fair trade coke, Obama victory Woooo.(i am well liked and also don't get killed in the fantasy).

 

[Seamaiden]

But shimmer, you brought Richard Dawkins into the argument.

I agree with your third party assessment. We'll see what the percentage is, but, we've seen over the last few hundred years, if that qualifies as an indicator, that two parties tend to dominate. I don't know who a third party would replace at this point. Better to place your weight where it's most needed. Go Obama! Go McCain!

Whose history are you recounting here?

That's cool seamaiden - everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just don't think anyone should be telling anyone what to do.

On one hand yes, on the other hand, we can't fuckin' help ourselves (from trying to tell one another what to do, and frankly, D, some people NEED the telling). Such is human nature.

When I say we are uncivilized I simply mean that humans have not learned & I hate to say this probably never will to live in harmony with one another to help our species advance.

We are animals. We will advance at an animal's pace. Unless we're hit with some righteous punctuated equilibrium, yeah.

We don't have to be governed we chose to be by doing things like voting.

I don't understand what you mean by this statement. I firmly believe human nature dictates that without law, governance, and The Almighty Consequence (delivered either via angry villagers or a swarm of zombies), there will always be some who will do their damnedest to take advantage of others. We are animals.

This is the reason I don't vote. I will not knowingly support a system of control & corruption.

Same as undertheice's reasons. I cannot tell you your feelings or opinions are wrong, I simply disagree is all.

I'd rather die. So if I lived in a dictatorship I guess I would be killed. I live here & I want what most people want in my opinion, but I don't believe voting for these puppets we are given is going to accomplish that. Only love can overcome...I mean love for each other not love for an idea.

I'm afraid it's going to take a great deal more than love. Or voting. And at that point I say no more.

 

[ccodiane]

I just made it up.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

That's cool seamaiden - everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I just don't think anyone should be telling anyone what to do. When I say we are uncivilized I simply mean that humans have not learned & I hate to say this probably never will to live in harmony with one another to help our species advance. We don't have to be governed we chose to be by doing things like voting. This is the reason I don't vote. I will not knowingly support a system of control & corruption. I'd rather die. So if I lived in a dictatorship I guess I would be killed. I live here & I want what most people want in my opinion, but I don't believe voting for these puppets we are given is going to accomplish that. Only love can overcome...I mean love for each other not love for an idea.

The problem Dfunk is that your "advancements" are nothing of the sort. The idea behind advancements is that they improve the lot of humanity as a whole, not just some chunk of humanity, thus any claims that by helping others were are helping all of humanity is a crock of bullshit.

Electricity was not invented by a committee, nor was Radio, Television, Telephones, Computers, Aircraft, Automobiles, etc.

These were all invented by individuals, and on the whole they have benefited humanity more than any attempt to redistribute income.

Frankly, I would say that any attempt to create equality of outcome does more to hold humanity back then anything else.

Equality of Opportunity is one thing, but when the government seeks to create Equality of Outcome all it does is guarantee that the Outcome for everyone except the bureaucrats and politicians and other holders of power is poverty, famine and death.

"The time is near at hand which must determine whether Americans are to be free men or slaves. "
- George Washington (1732 - 1799)

What you are advocating Dfunk is SLAVERY

 

[shimmer]

But shimmer, you brought Richard Dawkins into the argument.

Only as the poster boy of atheism. He's annoying.

 

[shimmer]

I don't think Dfunk is advocating slavery whatsoever. Believing in equality of opportunity in a financial/power context is a red herring. There is no equality.Why should anyone be able to amass unspendable amounts of cash at the expense of others just because of their acumen or resources. Of course innovation should be handsomely rewarded, but shit's obscene. Plus we have a culture of corporatization which rewards redundancy and withholding of technology, we can send people to space and can't make a decent battery? I'm glad we're teetering on the brink of extinction, we've become fucking boring. Doh Ray me me me.

Dfunk, you keep your love chops sharp my friend, 'cause when we finally arrive at sustainability, it will have been love that that ensured it.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

I don't think Dfunk is advocating slavery whatsoever. Believing in equality of opportunity in a financial/power context is a red herring. There is no equality.Why should anyone be able to amass unspendable amounts of cash at the expense of others just because of their acumen or resources. Of course innovation should be handsomely rewarded, but shit's obscene. Plus we have a culture of corporatization which rewards redundancy and withholding of technology, we can send people to space and can't make a decent battery? I'm glad we're teetering on the brink of extinction, we've become fucking boring. Doh Ray me me me.

Dfunk, you keep your love chops sharp my friend, 'cause when we finally arrive at sustainability, it will have been love that that ensured it.

I disagree Shimmer, any one that is advocating placing "society" above the individual is advocating the slavery of individuals to society. Besides, who cares if a bunch of people accumulate massive amounts of money. When they die their estate is going to be taxed.

What I disagree with is them escaping the taxes by donating it to some charity that they control, or that their friends control. It seems a little absurd for me for charities and foundations to be running around with $3 Billion in assets or $10 Billion in assets and not spending anything but the interest and dividends, because they technically can never "die" and thus that money will never be taxed.

I remember reading about a foundation that lost $1 Billion when AIG crashed, and I was thinking, why am I being told that I should feel sorry for this Non-Profit that had over $1 Billion in assets?

That means they were raking in anywhere from $10 Million - $150 Million in dividend payments, untaxed.

 

[shimmer]

I disagree Shimmer, any one that is advocating placing "society" above the individual is advocating the slavery of individuals to society. Besides, who cares if a bunch of people accumulate massive amounts of money. When they die their estate is going to be taxed.

What I disagree with is them escaping the taxes by donating it to some charity that they control, or that their friends control. It seems a little absurd for me for charities and foundations to be running around with $3 Billion in assets or $10 Billion in assets and not spending anything but the interest and dividends, because they technically can never "die" and thus that money will never be taxed.

I remember reading about a foundation that lost $1 Billion when AIG crashed, and I was thinking, why am I being told that I should feel sorry for this Non-Profit that had over $1 Billion in assets?

That means they were raking in anywhere from $10 Million - $150 Million in dividend payments, untaxed.

I'm with you. I only donate to charities when i'm drunk(and flush and stupid).Most charities are corporate. They annoy us in the same manner as all the fucks out for a dollar. Have you been accosted by these people, these co-opted hippies? The good ones earn $20 an hour reaming your bank details and their boss gets $45k, and his gets more. Nothing makes me more annoyed than people who regard luxury as a perk of their partaking of corporate charity. Corruption is what we're talking, and you Dfunk, don't feel corrupt.

Love is all we need, but i'll be fucked if i can figure out how to give and recieve it full time.

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

I'm with you. I only donate to charities when i'm drunk(and flush and stupid).Most charities are corporate. They annoy us in the same manner as all the fucks out for a dollar. Have you been accosted by these people, these co-opted hippies? The good ones earn $20 an hour reaming your bank details and their boss gets $45k, and his gets more. Nothing makes me more annoyed than people who regard luxury as a perk of their partaking of corporate charity. Corruption is what we're talking, and you Dfunk, don't feel corrupt.

Love is all we need, but i'll be fucked if i can figure out how to give and recieve it full time.

Lol, and pay your taxes, too?

 

[ovechkin8]

the two party system is bullshit, the electoral college is bullshit, and the main reason im not voting is because a republican vote means nothing in the state of washington...im sure its like that with many other states weather your a repub or dem...they need to abolish the electoral college

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

the two party system is bullshit, the electoral college is bullshit, and the main reason im not voting is because a republican vote means nothing in the state of washington...im sure its like that with many other states weather your a repub or dem...they need to abolish the electoral college

I disagree with that, the Electoral College probably is the only think that prevents the Left Coast and New York from taking over this country.

No, what they need to do is restore it to what it was meant to be with each district casting its electoral vote according to how the people in that district voted instead of the winner take all system where it's whoever gets the popular vote in the entire state that gets all of the electoral votes (which robs a lot of districts of their votes, and violates the principal of one person, one vote).

 

[Seamaiden]

Not only that, but most folks don't realize that L.A. is pretty much what carries the state as far as voting is concerned. Even moreso than the Bay Area, to my surprise (in speaking with a state senator last week).

 

[ccodiane]

Not only that, but most folks don't realize that L.A. is pretty much what carries the state as far as voting is concerned. Even moreso than the Bay Area, to my surprise (in speaking with a state senator last week).

 

[TheBrutalTruth]

Not only that, but most folks don't realize that L.A. is pretty much what carries the state as far as voting is concerned. Even moreso than the Bay Area, to my surprise (in speaking with a state senator last week).

Kind of disturbing, no?

How a few cities can alter the vote of an entire state with 57 electoral votes.

Hey, Seamaiden, do you feel disenfranchised?

 

[Seamaiden]

Not quite yet, but I'm workin' on it.

 

[Dfunk]

Look...I got nothing but love for everyone. Shimmer I know your feeling what I'm saying - I can sense it. The problem is everything & it can't be escaped. It's been developed so long now that is has become a part of who people are. On the slavery note if you believe that what I'm saying would promote slavery then so be it, but I advise you to prove to me that your not already a PAID SLAVE like everone else who has a job & pay taxes. Economic slavery is a whole lot easier to pull off than physical slavery. One requires you to feed & house people while the other accomplishes the same goals & requires people to feed & house theirsleves. It truly is an ingenious sytem. This is where I stand...if you vote you are in my opinion supporting the things you don't want under the illusion that somehow these people are going to completly change a system that has been working well for THEM for many years.

 

[dum]

I completely agree with the idea that a majority electoral vote in a state shouldn't get the whole state, the president should be decided by a majority vote of senators and representitves. If you think that a "PAID SLAVE" is the same as a pre-civil war American slave then you must be a nut-bar. You should really read Frederick Douglass' autobiography. A slave and a part of the system are two VERY different things. Voting is important, maybe not for president but for your senator of representitive. If you don't vote then you don't have a voice, and if you don't have a voice then that IS one more step towards slavery. If you're against voting than you are allowing the rich and poerfull to becoume more rich and powerful. Havn't you ever read "Animal Farm"?

If I had it my way people would care enough about eachother to allow socialism to work.

Fucking fascist.