Fabric pot vs Plastic vs ??? Sizes?

Father Ramirez

Well-Known Member
That won't hurt them???
Briefly, but they recover. Consider it then defoliation of the roots.
I prefer the roots dry for repotting. Use a very sharp thin blade that’s long enough to reach through. I use a fish filet knife. Use down ward strokes beginning near the top of the root ball. Use your fingers to pull away the cut pieces. Repot and moisten immediately. A bit of aloe gel in the water will help the roots recover.

I’ve tried many size pots up to 20g. 5g fabric are my go to now.
Once I lined a laundry basket with furnace filter material to create a giant airpot. Worked great.
 

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
If you want a large plant with large fan leaves, then you would be better off growing in something like an 18gal plastic storage container, then just make a hole on the side about an inch or 2 above the bottom, I put some plastic water sprinkler/plumbing connectors on mine, they just screw together and then I put a water hose gasket around the connector on the inside and just tighten them up.

If your growing in soil and want to grow a large healthy plant, it's best to go wide and somewhat deep, I'm using 27gal containers right now, and I'm wanting to DIY some painted wooden containers that would utilise double layer 6mil plastic sheeting inside, this way I could efficiently push my container size past 35gal in the 5x6 space I'm using, I haven't got around to building one just yet, but I do think it's a good idea if it's built well enough and can be tested to be leak proof beforehand, nice wide/deep heavy duty containers aren't easy to come by necessarily, so this may also be an option for someone who is able to do a little wooden design and what have you.

But what I have found is it's easier to keep a plant alive in mediocre soil in a larger container, than it is to grow a plant in super healthy rich soil and w/ too small of a container, especially if the main goal is for the plant to produce fully ripened fruit or flowers, that also includes allowing the plant to sprawl in order to exhibit the full characteristics and size that it is capable of expressing within its gene pool, a plant will tell you by the size of the leaves that it puts on that it likes the container that it's growing in, if you want large outdoor like grown fan leaves growing on your plant, you'll want to go with a sizable container, I'd say 25gal on upwards.

Even a 25gal runs out of space if the plant is allowed long enough period of vegative growth.

One issue with large containers is humidity, I've had to start covering the soil of my containers lately to hold in the moisture, and roots have begun to stick out from the top of the soil underneath the plastic, but this has been working for me lately I haven't had to worry about watering as often by using this method, because of less evaporation from a larger sized overall area of soil.

So just be aware larger total area of exposed soil will raise humidity levels to the growing area and may need to take extra measures as I have discovered in order to keep things more easily manageable.

Cheers.

Edit: I just wanted to be sure to also mention, with my current setup I'm geared towards mothering plants to make clones from, that's why I've decided upon the larger containers, plus when I get enough clones, send each mother into flower afterwards, but yes I do realize if i was just trying to get a few decent plants and harvestable buds within a decent time frame and tighter space, then maybe like 15gal would be also doable and more efficient, however I am also trying to keep my genetics to make seeds + breed with, so my concern was adequate environment and space first and foremost, the large wide container simulates actual Earth more than other containers do, least that's my theory on it. Thanks
This is spot on IMO.

I think too that if the roots once hit the plastic they get a stiffle in growth because from now on, always one side of the roots faces plastic which is inert... so the root cannot utilize its full potential.

I consider running a nearly completely closed container for the next organic grow. No drain needed but I'm gonna install just a few glaspipes in order to see when the water reaches the bottom. The proper amount is easily to calculate. I can't even remember having problings with overwatering at all. If you grow large plants they can deal with water more eassily, and under strong light the evaporation from the leaves increases. I'm using quarzsand and expanded clayballs on top to prevent the topsoil getting dry, keeping its temperatur more homogenous between days'n'nights, and more humid. I did consider to close it completely with but then I would need an automatic watering system.

It's nice to see how roots grow when they have a high air humitidy aroudn them - I've seen them even grow healthy exposed to light. Thank you for the info about the correlation of fanleavesize and potsize. In this case it's the more the better. You can use the opposite (terribly small cups) for a cut you just want to save the genetics/small slow motherplant. Combined with week light.

edit:
Cannabis also develops a different root when grown in a larger, expecially deeper container. Outdoorplants develop a thick main root. This does not happen in small indoor cups. Once the downspiraling roots hits the bottom it'll initiate a second root and grow more bushy generally. Outdoor it's more straight with less sidebranches and more like being described by science text/wikipedia.
 

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
This is spot on IMO.

I think too that if the roots once hit the plastic they get a stiffle in growth because from now on, always one side of the roots faces plastic which is inert... so the root cannot utilize its full potential.

I consider running a nearly completely closed container for the next organic grow. No drain needed but I'm gonna install just a few glaspipes in order to see when the water reaches the bottom. The proper amount is easily to calculate. I can't even remember having problings with overwatering at all. If you grow large plants they can deal with water more eassily, and under strong light the evaporation from the leaves increases. I'm using quarzsand and expanded clayballs on top to prevent the topsoil getting dry, keeping its temperatur more homogenous between days'n'nights, and more humid. I did consider to close it completely with but then I would need an automatic watering system.

It's nice to see how roots grow when they have a high air humitidy aroudn them - I've seen them even grow healthy exposed to light. Thank you for the info about the correlation of fanleavesize and potsize. In this case it's the more the better. You can use the opposite (terribly small cups) for a cut you just want to save the genetics/small slow motherplant. Combined with week light.

edit:
Cannabis also develops a different root when grown in a larger, expecially deeper container. Outdoorplants develop a thick main root. This does not happen in small indoor cups. Once the downspiraling roots hits the bottom it'll initiate a second root and grow more bushy generally. Outdoor it's more straight with less sidebranches and more like being described by science text/wikipedia.
Hi @Kassiopeija !

Thank you for your comment, this is one if my favorite topics of growing in general, and I feel like most people agree that a large container is especially important for anyone who grows in soil or organic based soil blends, if not hopefully this thread will help more people start to realize the benefits of going larger if you're able.

One of the major benefits of going with a large container that I've found, is that it allows the grower the ability to train the roots to search for the water down deep into the container, if the container is wide enough it can be watered indirectly every single time it gets water, and what I like to do is switch sides or water diagonal corners of the container at a time, and switch between sides when I water, this way the plant gets some cycling and not just the same water from above each time, this helps train the roots and the bottom root growth will be reflected back on the top portions of the plant in leaf growth and branching, perfect for healthy clones and typically you'll have a larger plant that doesn't mind supercropping and training as much as a smaller plant would in a small or medium sized container

(Note: I realize some plants don't need as large of a container, any strain that doesn't get real tall or wide can probably get by fine in a smaller 7-10gal container, this post excludes those less space consuming strains, helps to have a larger growing variety to begin with if going this route, if they are smaller varieties, 2 plants can grow in one large container just fine, you'd still see similar growth to growing just one large, me personally I grow basil on either side of my single plants in the 27gal, large containers are good for companion planting also (just get a trouble free herb or plant that deters pests like basil), if anyone's seeking options).

I hear about the topic of air pruning the roots often and I do see the benefits of it, however I do not feel air pruning matters (as much) in a larger container, air pruning is important if the space is limited because has less space to extract it's nutrients from the soil within, if there is less space, you'd want the plant realizing the dimensions of the containers and creating fine hair like roots that spread as fast as possible, this is why air pruning holes in the airpots/fabric pots and similar designs work so well for air pruning, and why it's useful.

But for a larger container the plant is more at its own leisure to grow out where it wants to, it's not as much of a race against time for the plant to find the nutrients that it needs, in a larger container more of a constant flow of nutrients can be uptaken by the roots because within a larger network of roots in the soil, there is less trouble seeking out various nutrients & more natural control over deficiency, just seems that the roots have an easier time bargaining with the soil when in a larger container, in simple terms....

I liked what you said about covering the containers, I feel like the reason it helps is because it creates a high humidity level above the soil and below and the roots seek out that moisture even if it leads them straight up out of the container, lol, and the new root growth is typically mirrored in new growth above the stalk, in the leaves. Sealing that moisture in some allows the plant to fully utilise the full expenditure of the container also, if only the bottom 70% of the soil retains most of its moisture then the plant can't utilize the rest of the drier 30% towards the top of the container as freely as it could, having the need to do so..... my plants don't seem to think the container is too large, and they seem to enjoy a partially sealed top layer ( I do too, I don't have to water as often and when it does start to dry out its a slower occurring process, less plant stress if lower moisture levels are reached).

In effect covering the container to hold in moisture causes some air pruning right out of the top layer, just by keeping the roots happy and moist, just be sure some air exchange is still allowed, roots need air almost (slight exaggeration) as much as the leaves do.

But yes, you are right, it does seem much more difficult to over water a larger 20+ gal container, I'm sure It can be done, but me personally I like to have that assurance just in case I do over water then I will get some run off, so I do kind of like having one drain added to mine, one option might be to add the drain higher up so that more water resides in the bottom, I put mine about 2 inches above the bottom and in 27gal of dirt that's still a lot of residual water that is left to reside in the bottom without runoff.

But yes i don't think there's any reason to doubt what the reason is between fan blade size and container size, it's rather simple? if a plant is allowed to grow a large foundation of roots below the soil, it will reflect in the size of the rest of the plant overall, and It does appear to be seen by the size that the fan leaves reach and the overall amount of them, makes for a faster growing plant from what I can tell :mrgreen:.

I'm sure you already know this, but one thing anyone growing in a larger container should be mindful of is soil aeration when combining a blend of soil that is to be added, organic matter, perlite, volcanic rock, sand etc, what ever you choose just be sure that the soil with have some lightness to it, it should have a lot of density to it that will hold moisture, but not allow air to penetrate through it, if air has a hard time penetrating the soil substrate, then so will the roots.

One final thing I'd like to mention that has made a large difference for me in my grows so far, is adding crushed lump charcoal to the soil, it seems to be what was missing from my soil all along, the plants I've added maybe 8% crushed charcoal to the mixture have shown vigorous growth and seem to not mind the charcoal being there at all, seems what people say about charcoal being a good host environment for microbes to live from within is true, seems to help provide benefit to their survival, which then adds in the survival and thriving ability of other organisms, such as :leaf: plants living in the soil nearby.

I had decent luck crushing the charcoal with just a simple 3-4" screw drive type clamp, as long as the charcoal isn't super hard wood like mesquite to begun with, just a hammer, a clamp, and a mid sized pipe wrench pliers were all I used to crush 40+ lbs if it into powder so far, and yes I got blisters from the work and sore hands, but it was worth it in the end, my plants are growing bountifully so far. Just be sure and wear a good dust mask, maybe some eye protection also, do it where you don't mind dust settling nearby if you do it indoors, even with the added effort, I would do it 10x times over if I knew I'd see this large of an improvement beforehand.

So thank you for reading this (I'd be glad to explain further if any Q's arise), I hope this helps someone, and that more growers Will be able to benefit from the words left here today for them to follow and build upon, I hope it helps people grow lbs for themselves, I really do... take care my friends.
 

Nizza

Well-Known Member
I love my airpots. The original brand is the best. I always moisten the soil as I fill them and pack the soil out into the cones. The top should have the closed cones on the last few rows to help with holding moisture at the top of the soil and it's important to also put the bottom peice the correct side up and 3 rows up from the bottom.
 

TrippleDip

Well-Known Member
I love my airpots
Me, not so much. I like how easy it is to up pot, and I like that the plants don't ever get rootbound during veg growth, but I always let them dry out too much and they can be finicky to water (takes longer because the water wants to come out the side if you just dump it in. I feel like seeds take off faster starting in air pots but are overtaken by plants in larger nursery pots (probably because of letting them dry out too much once or twice).
 

mustbetribbin

Well-Known Member
@Kassiopeija

Hey dear, I just wanted to update you on some info I just located on this subject.


The larger the root ball, the larger stem, the larger the leaf... A large container can only help propel a plant into growing into a larger growing biomass overall, a small container does have these odds against it, where as a larger sized 1 does not.
 

Nizza

Well-Known Member
Me, not so much. I like how easy it is to up pot, and I like that the plants don't ever get rootbound during veg growth, but I always let them dry out too much and they can be finicky to water (takes longer because the water wants to come out the side if you just dump it in. I feel like seeds take off faster starting in air pots but are overtaken by plants in larger nursery pots (probably because of letting them dry out too much once or twice).
the closed bubbles being at the top helps divert the water to the center of the pot is what I found. I used them upside down and had the same experience at first with the air pots.

Also, I used to add perlite in my regular containers and found with the airpots if you use regular happy frog it stays watered for 1-2 days on full sized plants. If I were to add more perlite to the mix I think it would be too airy . When filling the pots, moisten the soil and dig your hands in and push the soil out into the cones, like pack the cones as you fill the pots. I found when I did this my root ball and plant was way healthier. After up potting I found the ones i didnt pack had a lot of cones that had soil run out of them so it was just an air pocket with a hole lol

Another thing is making sure the circulation fans arent blowing directly at the side of the air pot. This goes the same with fabric pots in my experiences

Once and a while I use a wetting agent in my soil to help with the peat holding moisture. I use either Pro-Tekt which is a silica solution by dyna gro, or if I dont have that I use a drop or two of safer soap like dr.bronners or Ivory. This helps the water be "wetter" and makes a huge difference with water frequencies and the peat in the soil actually absorbing the water instead of repelling it. It almost emulsifies the medium but I don't think that is the correct term.
 

Clumpyoyster

Well-Known Member
I run a 5x5 tent and previously used 5 gallon fabrics. I ran six plants and when i harvested they were far from rootbound. This grow i went with 3 gallon plastics so i could get more plants in the tent and also because of my 5 gallon fabrics not being rootbound last grow, and also makes stress training easier, so i figured i would try them. I did drill a few extra holes in the bottom and also along the top of the rim for training them. I dont know what that guy is growing in his space but a 27 gallon pot is ridiculous if you ask me do not listen to him. Most people that grow with a tent our size are looking to grow more then one plant so i dont know why hes recommending that size and honestly dont care,lol, to each their own. If your only gonna grow one plant i would say a 5-7 gallon pot would do fine.
 

Frigault

Well-Known Member
Current plants are root bound, how do i transplant into larger pots without hurting them?
You'll have to hurt then or they might hurt them self later even if you transplant. Il all depends on how badly ut is root bound.. If its just a little you can shake the roots out. If they are really bad that you only see root. I would suggest using a brand new razor blade and cut along side from top too bottom and cut 4 to 6 slice and slice an '' X '' underneat. This will cut the rootball and give chance to root growing outward. If you dont interfere the root will grow inward and you will have many problemes..

After this your plant will take a goid week to heal up and bounce right back...

You will manually have to do what smart por are design to do... Prune the roots so they never rootbound... Use as big of a pot as you can. But remember only water the rooted area. Or even better pre water the soil a day or 2 before putting into the smart pot teansplant and don't water for a week to 10 days ond only mist the plant and surface of soil slightly. This will cause root to extend ouward toward the moist area if you use a bigger pot.. After the adaptation of new environement your plant should began to thrive.. And you can began normal watering and feeding.. Rootbound can really become problematic after a transplant because you might think the plant is doing well and all of a sudden probleme that look like overwatering underwatering nutrient deficiency shows up. And the probleme is du to root not exoending into new soil.. And it has nothing to do with transplant shock. It is just what rootbound does... Its chokes theplant slowly
 

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
Hello again, I just feel that there are so many positive arguments of having a larger soil available to the plant, but it's also dependant on the situation.
For example Airpots or Fabric Pots can prune the roots faster in somewhat small containers resulting in a better, denser early rootball. It would make sense to use them right after clones have rooted, ie. after 7-14 days after being cut. They're also good if you want to clone right into them using lightmixed organic soil mixed with coco 50/50. Clones have a tendency to grow much more bushy on the outside but do actually lack roots right from the start so the extra focus to develop a more complex root system is called for. Don't forget a good mykko-product because that will dramatically increase the roots accessability to the medium. Result is an overall better and healthier growth but paradoxically with less fertilizer needed. A healthy living soil can produce good stuff on its own, it's something that the mineralic fertilizer industry is trying to mimick with stuff like SuperVit. Organic is just more complex, and maybe not even fully understood yet. But the more complex something is, the greater is the chance that something goes astray. That's why conditions in an organic grow need to be right, and that is a more humid soil at a higher temperature.

I think that to keep the medium at its proper humidity is one of the most crucial and important factors in such a grow. If you do this wrong you won't harvest good for a number of problematic reasons.... More humid means more water which implies a potentail danger of overwatering... you also don't want to wash out any of the good stuff or microbes, so I don't like a drain to waste system.... I let the drain be sucked back again, that's why I use a heavily charged bio-organic soil but mix it with coco and perlite, to give the soil more breathability even up to the point where its practically impossible to overwater a big plant. It's not that you always hit all dry earth when you water manually, it's actually better to distribute that to 3 times per pot over the course of an half-hour. So the water can fill out the pot more homogenuous. And some of what's been sucked back in can help to fill up this. The capillar-effect works here against gravity. So it's possible to have all the earth from bottom to top in a good humid shape but we need to try to prevent that the topsoil dries out too fast because of our lights and fans.

I find that the ability to see a drain in an organic grow can give you some information of how strong a plant did need the water. This could lead to a decision of giving it more water or less the next time or adjusting the times to do so. Once I see a small drain, I stop watering and recheck after a small pause. If the drain has gone bigger it was too much... if it's been sucked back I sometimes give a bit more and the pot can hold it. This is why I don't use a drain at the bottom of the pot with clay-balls - they prevent the suck back.

At the end of the day all the earth in all pots need to be at a good humidity otherwise already established roots in these not-hit areas will dry out and die, stifling overall growth. So, once you transplant into a final pot you should try to stop letting roots die and also give the roots as much accessability to soil as actually your space or wallet allows :D IF you want your plant becoming big and full in its growth, more = better. Rootboundess is a stifle.

People need to understand what rootboundness means for a plant. In an natural outdoor scenario - where a seed could be dropped by a bird to any sort of habitate - if a plant has to develop without access to a lot of soil - this will also reduce its accessability of water. And without water, a big developed plant can swiftly die if left for days without water in hot summer. A plant has no interest in suicide..... leafes evaporate a boatload of water, if the are rootbound the won't grow great, and even finish more fast. Actually, this can be used for a manipulation technique to prevent vegetative growth if space is limited (stealth PC grow) or balcony grow if too far N or S. But in an indoor controlled environment with strong lights scenario I don't see the point of artifical limitation of growth... well if it's too much growth just do some plant training techniques ... do something with that biomass, make it a plus :D

I'm very interested in information about charcoil! I'm using bio charcoil which I've shred and ground up to dust, then mixed into recycled bio-organic soil. I think this artificially creates a Terra Preta kind of soil because the C offers a lot of binding sites for other molecules and stuff which the plant can later use. That's why some people actively pre-charge it with nutes. Or you mix it with your compost to decompose and over the course of a year or two, it would've been charged by the compost. It also offers a very high surface for bacteria to dwell in so I think it's a good idea to charge it with a Bokashi EMa-tea.

I'm currently wondering if I should add a few more layers to my concept of soil/pot. Alot of what we're doing is to mimick nature indoors. Outdoors the soil isn't the same of you measure in different depths like -2cm, -10cm, - 50cm or - 200cm. The stuff that can be found at these depths is different. And a plant can actually decide at which way its roots grow IF there is humidty present. The top layers are rich in humic and fulvic acids and quite some nutes. The further down it gets, the more clay and rocks will be there and a more mineralic content. Maybe I should add another layer of soil incorporating more clay and perhaps also dolomite lime or other stone meal. If I place it just between the quartzsand and main soil it'll additionally prevent some evaporation.
 

Clumpyoyster

Well-Known Member
Well I guess I'm just one of the ridiculous ones. Currently I'm running a single White Sunshine in a 30 gal Fabric in my 4x4 and a single Raspberry HP in a SIP in my 3x3.

I don't mind all the soil required as it's recycled to my outdoor veggie garden.

View attachment 4425554View attachment 4425555
Just out of curiosity how old is she and what do you expect to harvest off her? Thems are beautiful plants. I just want to have more then one plant going in the tent
 

bsett

Active Member
Just out of curiosity how old is she and what do you expect to harvest off her? Thems are beautiful plants. I just want to have more then one plant going in the tent
One week since flip. So another week of stretch and should have filled most of the 4x4 scrog. No real expectations as this is first time working with these strains and first time trying scrog (actually this is only my second indoor grow).

My first grow was Purple Haze that yielded 13 ounces dry so would be kind of surprised if this grow didn't exceed that.

One reason I'm going with the large pots stems back to my outdoor growing days in Humbolt back in 80's. Each year I would enlarge my holes and see my plants producing more and more. By the end of the decade I had some pretty huge holes with very satisfactory yields. So guess I just have huge on the brain ;-)
 

Mayrazuzo

Member
I'm a big fan of the fabric pots. Use them outside and inside, from 3 gallons to 100 gallons. I'm slowly making the change from running 2 5s to 1 10 per side in my flowering room.
How many plants would you put in 100 gallon pot inside
Perfect sun 1000 light
No till @BuildASoil setup all premade soil from them with no till
 

RevRico

Well-Known Member
How many plants would you put in 100 gallon pot inside
Perfect sun 1000 light
No till @BuildASoil setup all premade soil from them with no till
Just one, same as I would do outside. 4 to 6 months of veg under a good screen and let her RIP, but I'd want at least 2, maybe 4 1000 watt lights over the flowering area.

Outside in full sun, we hit 10+ feet tall and 30 feet in circumference (that's distance AROUND not ACROSS). I fucking miss those 9lb blue dream plants. Clones cut in February, moved to 100 gallon pots in April, harvest around Halloween.
 

Nabbers

Well-Known Member
My last grow was in a 2x4, 7 foot tall tent. That gave me room to grow two plants about 5 feet tall, after using up some vertical space for the container and the led panel. These girls were covered in huge 13-blade leaves. I used 5 gallon fabrics in autopots (Autopot Smart Pot XL). I just finished recycling the coco out of them and the roots really didn't use all that much of the space they had to work with.
 

TrippleDip

Well-Known Member
the closed bubbles being at the top helps divert the water to the center of the pot is what I found. I used them upside down and had the same experience at first with the air pots.

Also, I used to add perlite in my regular containers and found with the airpots if you use regular happy frog it stays watered for 1-2 days on full sized plants. If I were to add more perlite to the mix I think it would be too airy . When filling the pots, moisten the soil and dig your hands in and push the soil out into the cones, like pack the cones as you fill the pots. I found when I did this my root ball and plant was way healthier. After up potting I found the ones i didnt pack had a lot of cones that had soil run out of them so it was just an air pocket with a hole lol

Another thing is making sure the circulation fans arent blowing directly at the side of the air pot. This goes the same with fabric pots in my experiences

Once and a while I use a wetting agent in my soil to help with the peat holding moisture. I use either Pro-Tekt which is a silica solution by dyna gro, or if I dont have that I use a drop or two of safer soap like dr.bronners or Ivory. This helps the water be "wetter" and makes a huge difference with water frequencies and the peat in the soil actually absorbing the water instead of repelling it. It almost emulsifies the medium but I don't think that is the correct term.
This is amazing advice, ty.


When filling the pots, moisten the soil and dig your hands in and push the soil out into the cones
I tried this, and it made a HUGE difference. Jury's out on whether I'll get my act together and keep them hydrated tho. One thing that also worked for me was packing them so that they were higher at the edge of the pot than at the center (like a u shape).

I'm going to try the regular promix next time instead of the high porosity to see if that will keep them watered longer as well. Tbh, I've never tried adding a surfactant to the water because I heard promix comes with one and unless you are reusing the soil it doesn't matter much. I might try it out but I think wetting the soil and packing it in is enough.
 
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