Market Flooded..strain variety overload?

[MrToad69]

I figured we needed a thread to discuss the implications of recent explosion in hybrids...It's a philosophical question..

Are customers going to get sick of the bazillion strains floating around out there at some point and stick to the 5-6 favorites they like? Lost in the crowd?

Everyone, and I mean a ton of people are pollen chucking these days; myself included...Cookie this, Gorilla that...What is really new out there that doesnt already have 20 other close substitutes?
Most flavours, effects and "punch" are now covered by multiple strains...the new frontier seems to be identifying and capturing new cannabinoids...THCP...30x the strength of THC, THCV?...How many veteran smokers/growers haven't even heard if these cannabinoids?

That said..I can see people trying to track down legit landrace strains.
These days its easy to get lost in all the varieties...so for someone to spend $150 or $200 on a pack of so called "elite" beans..Why?

Thoughts?

Mr Toad

 

[skuba]

I’d spend that much if I thought I’d find something special or similar to the parents, looking for a certain taste/smell/effect. It’s a lot for some seeds, but not too bad if you find a plant that meets or exceeds your expectations. Just sell an oz, make clones or reveg your favorites, you already made your money back.

 

[kgp]

No beans are elite. Its all about a combination of potential and luck.

I agree with the massive amount of varieties, its over the top and ridiculous. But with supply and demand, they wouldn't be around if they didn't sell.

Everytime I pop a seed I am disappointed, every single time. How many people have found a better plant in seed than the mother used to breed? I bet the odds are very slim, or you never sampled the real mother. They are out there but the odds are small. 1 in 100 or maybe 1 in 500? I guess it all depends.

But then again. Good pot to someone might be throw away to others.

I have never been more content than I am at the moment. I have no intentions of searching, or hunting anything for a while. Find something good, dial it in and make it better. Repeat until you have a handful and keep the best of the best.

 

[MrToad69]

KGP..

My point exactly..find what you like..and dial it in!

Toad

 

[Amos Otis]

Baskin Robbins has dozens of varieties and flavors of ice cream; it used to be 31. Some people I knew would order a different flavor most every visit. Others, like me, were perfectly happy getting the same favorite.

I'm just the opposite with weed - I like a lot of variety in my stash cupboard. But if I were forced for some reason to have seeds of only 6 varieties, I have a good idea what they'd be.

 

[Chip Green]

I see the growers I know, always chasing. One of them in particular, getting average results time and again, because of a lack of repeatability. The whole gamet, questionable genetics based on potentially bogus strain names, from less than reputable sources... different lighting, little concern for balanced conditions, brand after brand of soil, soiless mixes, nutrients....right now holds a Master's degree in Bro-science, working toward the PhD.

I think there are so many of these types of growers, it will never matter how many "strains" are available, it will never be enough to satisfy the collective, insatiable desire to change shit.

 

[MrToad69]

Appreciate the comments gang..

We all like variety..to a point, but, if I have to cough up $50-90 each time I want to change
my mind I'm inclined to stick with the 10 or so strains I already have and multiple crosses with beans I've made..fem and regs...so when I see 20 different kinds of Gelato suddenly created(the cannabis variety) , I get lost in the noise and ..respond...meh...What am I really missing?

 

[OldMedUser]

Most of the seeds sold these days are bastardized mongrels with catchy names to suck in the rubes.

Looking at some seeds at Gorilla and it's, 'Hey a great cross between A and B. Ready for a pheono hunt at $20 a bean!'

Screw that BS. For $20 a bean I want damn good stabilized genetics and not some hokey F1 or F2 crosses that grow all over the spectrum. I've been making those myself for 20 years FFS. Then giving them away.

There's a sucker born every min tho so plenty money coming in.

 

[BDGrows]

I think its one of those whatever floats your boat type of thing... I personally enjoy seeing all of the crosses, but realistically there are about 15 breeders I trust and don't mind spending the money on their packs. Granted, I dont expect an "elite" out of every pack, but I always find at least one per pack. I think finding that elite cut comes down to growing experience as well as luck, honestly... I also think the 100$+ a pack bubble is going to pop... Granted, the well-know vendors, ie CSI, will maintain their prices and business. I think once everyone gets over the cookies fad and all of the crosses that are made from cookies that the days of spending 150$ on a pack of Somerandomflavoroftheweek x Cookies will be over. And with that, a lot of "breeders" are going to exit the scene as well. With them leaving, I think a lot of the variety is going to go away as a lot of the OG breeders have a stable they seem to stick to. But with marijuana becoming more popular and random people throwing money into it, we'll see.

 

[Amos Otis]

Appreciate the comments gang..

We all like variety..to a point, but, if I have to cough up $50-90 each time I want to change
my mind ....

Where and when are you shopping? There's lots of places where you can pick up sub $50 packs of weed seeds. Some sites run sales every couple of weeks of at least 30% off, then do 50% for a holiday several times a year. Others carry inexpensive lines, while more seed makers are vending quality crosses on their own sites for bargain prices.

 

[MrToad69]

I tend to be one of those people who feel, you get what you pay for...I tend to be selective for one reason or another...but then again like wine...I can pick a $25 bottle that'll easily top $50 or $100 bottle..

It all comes down to personal preference and what someone is willing to pay

 

[BigSco508]

Well my thought on the matter is this if you think your going to get a plant from a pack of beans that looks as good, frosty,massive,color, as someone that has a Filtered, Glam shot of the mother your wasting your time most of these places bang out 500-1000 maybe even more on their pheno hunts and who knows they could of thrown what you or me would think is the Holy Grail in the compost pile to keep something we think is garbage. I don't know about you but i don't the time or money to bang out 500-1000 beans of $100 to $500 a ten pack . But then again nothing ventured nothing gained so i buy what i like pop it and if i think it's good i keep it if its Trash that's where it go's. It is like going to a New restaurant do i really wanna go and pay $100 plus tip to go try food that i might like or do i go to the place where i pay the same and get what i know i like.

 

[djav59]

Finally a thread that cuts straight to the heart of the matter.
Like I said everybody and their granny is selling seeds but what are you actually getting?
I 'm reading posts on skunk well I can say if true skunk is around its well hidden .
There are many skunk like strains but I used to grow it and I can tell you the true stuff which was Afghan in origin was more like road kill than road kill.
I used the scent to find patches during night ops many a time.
It was a short bushy indica like plant early ripening and it did not like salts, only responded to organics and would peter out after five generations unless new genes were introduced even though this is a region quite like Afghanistan (Mountainous, poor soil) it was not the same I noticed it getting weaker by the 4 th gen .
It was a unique strain I used other indicas and afghan strains but this was different forgive me if this is not botanically correct but I am referring to shape and type of plant plus where seed actually came from these were from a diplomatic source in Kabul and I collected direct from the buds.
The very 1st indoor grow I did I used it (this was in the early 80s) it distorted and became black the leaves changed shape the taste became chocolate and coffee like a far cry from its original outdoor form and flavor . This was a hydro grow but the salts and HID had a profound effect on it.
A word about Colombian gold I saw quite a bit of it in the day and there is nothing like it now.
There has been a lot of speculation on why this plant had the gold color I can safely say this it seemed to be partially genetic the plants from straight seed were light lime green or yellow this was not a nitrogen deficiency this was their color.
In short once its gone its gone .

I had many top genetics my partner and I had bred grown for this region but all lost due to life's fuck ups .
So now the race is on to find something that I find of value and worth perusing and preserving thus far I have found very little but not many worth fooling with last 2 grows were ok but not the grail.
I find some of you to be highly competent growers and seem to have very good skill sets kudos to you I am old school and had to do a lot of trial and error much steeper curve in my day there were no social networks .
I do enjoy reading some of these posts and have picked up some good advice I thank those of you kind enough to contribute.
The ones I bitch at pay attention you might actually learn something if you shut up and listen not from me but others .
So I must now chase the rabbit like everyone else which way did it go?

 

[djav59]

Most of the seeds sold these days are bastardized mongrels with catchy names to suck in the rubes.

Looking at some seeds at Gorilla and it's, 'Hey a great cross between A and B. Ready for a pheono hunt at $20 a bean!'

Screw that BS. For $20 a bean I want damn good stabilized genetics and not some hokey F1 or F2 crosses that grow all over the spectrum. I've been making those myself for 20 years FFS. Then giving them away.

There's a sucker born every min tho so plenty money coming in.

Indeed may I ask what your current preferences are?

 

[The Mantis]

No beans are elite. Its all about a combination of potential and luck.

I agree with the massive amount of varieties, its over the top and ridiculous. But with supply and demand, they wouldn't be around if they didn't sell.

Everytime I pop a seed I am disappointed, every single time. How many people have found a better plant in seed than the mother used to breed? I bet the odds are very slim, or you never sampled the real mother. They are out there but the odds are small. 1 in 100 or maybe 1 in 500? I guess it all depends.

But then again. Good pot to someone might be throw away to others.

I have never been more content than I am at the moment. I have no intentions of searching, or hunting anything for a while. Find something good, dial it in and make it better. Repeat until you have a handful and keep the best of the best.

No beans are "elite" I agree with that.

As a beginner grower, most have enough trouble with the growing part. Genetics aside.

After growing a while, you start to notice all the traits people talk about. Then you start to get a preference for what you like to grow or the effects you're chasing after.

While no seeds are "elite" I do like to think, with informative boards like this, that one can make an educated guess on buying seeds to get the type of plant or effect they are after.

I find it odd that you're always disappointed with every seed you pop. I've had the exact opposite experience. After buying clones from all over in California, I started buying seeds from Sannies and Attitude and now US companies. I found way more variety and vigor from seeds. True, some seeds are inferior from bad breeders, but if you do your research on here you can usually find what you're looking for.

There's also the evolution part of it and it's the same with fruits and veggies. Go buy some heirloom tomato or pepper seeds (or any annual fruit) off of rareseeds.com from a remote village somewhere in another part of the world. Grow the original beans out. You'll most likely get a small yield. However if you save those beans from the first fruit you harvested and grow them out, you'll see much bigger plants with larger yields. Note, sometimes it could take a few generations for the improvement but you get the point. The genetics adapt to the new environment eventually. Same with cannabis imo.

I do agree there are way too many varieties out there but it's also pretty cool because of a relatively new industry. Some of these breeders are going to the be the face of cannabis future, while others will disappear. Get ahold of some sought after, newer breeders gear and you will have valuable gear to start with. Matching a good father with the mom plant should improve the offspring. Good breeders have a goal to improve plants, while some are just trying to profit off the name of the mom or the hype somehow.

Remember looking at those old sensi catalogs back in the 80s/90s? I used to think there was way too much variety then, but imagine if you bought those nl5xhaze seeds.

 

[djav59]

I got one of those catalogs from Neville sent $350 the way they said to and got nothing . 6 weeks later I dial a long sting of digits on my rotary dial phone to Amsterdam and some guy picks up and speaks in Dutch when I ask about my seeds he hangs up .I dial back he answers again I say fuck you and hang up so much for my Dutch seed experience.

 

[MrToad69]

Djav
Back when I was going to university, way back in a land far, far away I managed to obtain some beans from a number of buddies...and that's what I had...It wasn't bad. Perhaps it was the nostalgia or the fading memory that made the stuff back then seem that much better than what I have today...
Living in Central Canada, we were a far cry from being in the loop or network to obtain quality seeds back then..so you grew what you could find for beans..
These days, I grow a few indoor but like to throw some autos out at my parents farm when the summer rolls around..Indoor I have some White Gold (White Label seeds) and Auto wise I have some Tangiematic I like from Fastbuds..
I would like to find some Sativa beans (or close to landrace) for a little bit of that Nostalgia sativa smoke I used to have when I was young..but like many other growers, I'm apprehensive to buy sativa beans from breeders when most old school growers report ho-hum results from them.

Cheers
Mr Toad

 

[djav59]

I got to agree for the most part MrToad (there used to be a stereo place named that in Tenn years ago hows that for nostalgia?)
AF Im not so sure of like I said in previous post most of the decent stuff I smoked came from west coast ? barneys Peyote cookies just in process of trying to get some plus I ve checked out Angus site awaiting now it seems legit but ya it may be a step climb back to yesteryear.
Before that DJ shorts blueberry was amazing but I could only get a little of that .

 

[djav59]

Like I tell others it always took 3-5 successive outdoor generations to yeild stable hybrids from the old stuff or any stuff just look at strainfinder and tell me what the hell ?

 

[skuba]

No beans are "elite" I agree with that.

As a beginner grower, most have enough trouble with the growing part. Genetics aside.

After growing a while, you start to notice all the traits people talk about. Then you start to get a preference for what you like to grow or the effects you're chasing after.

While no seeds are "elite" I do like to think, with informative boards like this, that one can make an educated guess on buying seeds to get the type of plant or effect they are after.

I find it odd that you're always disappointed with every seed you pop. I've had the exact opposite experience. After buying clones from all over in California, I started buying seeds from Sannies and Attitude and now US companies. I found way more variety and vigor from seeds. True, some seeds are inferior from bad breeders, but if you do your research on here you can usually find what you're looking for.

There's also the evolution part of it and it's the same with fruits and veggies. Go buy some heirloom tomato or pepper seeds (or any annual fruit) off of rareseeds.com from a remote village somewhere in another part of the world. Grow the original beans out. You'll most likely get a small yield. However if you save those beans from the first fruit you harvested and grow them out, you'll see much bigger plants with larger yields. Note, sometimes it could take a few generations for the improvement but you get the point. The genetics adapt to the new environment eventually. Same with cannabis imo.

I do agree there are way too many varieties out there but it's also pretty cool because of a relatively new industry. Some of these breeders are going to the be the face of cannabis future, while others will disappear. Get ahold of some sought after, newer breeders gear and you will have valuable gear to start with. Matching a good father with the mom plant should improve the offspring. Good breeders have a goal to improve plants, while some are just trying to profit off the name of the mom or the hype somehow.

Remember looking at those old sensi catalogs back in the 80s/90s? I used to think there was way too much variety then, but imagine if you bought those nl5xhaze seeds.

I’m with you, I’ve grown “elite” clone onlys, and they are kept around for a reason, they’re great plants. But for example, last year, I only grew a small personal garden of 7 plants from seed. All bred up on a mountain in mendo county. Out of those 7, 2 of the plants stood out, and smoked better than “elites” grown on the same property by my buddy (chem, doc og, sour d, blue dream, wedding cake, the list goes on.)
The two plants were different strains, one phenotype of each, and were better than the clones. So I guess from my experience, it’s not so far fetched to find a seed plant that will outperform a selected clone. The clones came from seeds after all, usually big hunts, but not always.