Stunted Growth

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guitarguy10

Well-Known Member
Been having problems since the start of this DWC build, there's another thread of 2 i made that explain some of this here:

Seedling DWC Problem

I moved seedlings in rockwool to DWC 4 day's ago and their growth has been stunted and they are going yellow and burnt tips as in this pic: They are under just 2 60w CFL bulbs, temp is about 20C, RH about 50%. Giving them tap water with Sensi Grow A and B enough that the EC is 0.7and pH is...
rollitup.org

Fill Port Idea?

I am going to be trying my hand at DWC (1st time). I will be growing in 12 gallon high strength tote bins with 2 plants per bin. I have the drain part covered and I am just now trying to find a simple solution in order to fill them. These totes, and my grow tent are no where near a water...
rollitup.org

But this thread is to ask if anyone has any idea why my plants have been so stunted? I planted them on Dec. 23 and now 3 weeks later they've basically not really grown at all.

I am topfeeding them with tap water that's been diluted with distilled water to about 150ppm (tap water is 220ppm), pH 5.9. The water level in the buckets is about an inch below the netpots until I start to see roots coming out of the bottom of the netpots (which I have not yet seen). Lights are just 2 of those cheap 45w CFLs, in a 2'x4'x5' tent with passive intake and 6" exhaust. Temps about 21C, RH about 45-55%.

Attached are pics from Jan. 4, 6, 9 and 14th.
 

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Mak'er Grow

Well-Known Member
I'm no pro by any means, but I'd try to raise temps a little...maybe turn of the exhaust fan for a bit here and there.
Also try to add more light 90W CFL isn't really a lot...4-6 or more if you can.
Roots should show within a week usually...if your very careful move some pellets and see how they look if they still aren't coming out the net pots yet.
Maybe stick to just distilled with a little calmag added.
If nothing changes within a week then there has to be something else effecting them.
Just suggestions...things I'd try.
Good luck and happy growing.
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
The first main tap root has a really hard time getting a good start to branching out when put right into DWC. The tiny titty bitty hairs get covered by water and are damaged so it tries to just keep growing longer and longer with no real branching. Roots look like that?

I always suggest rooting in a small 2of or so cup of coco and getting a nice lil plant established, then either rinsing off as much coco as possible or not at all and transplanting THAT root mass into the hydroton.
I just suggest using a container small enough that hydroton will still at least bury the whole thing in the netpot you're gonna use.
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Buuuuut.... Since theyrecl already in there, keep your ppms no higher than 200, and just give it time. Lots of lightning and good air exchange is important.
Slow down your exhaust and try to raise the humidity to above 70%. That surely will help.
 
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guitarguy10

Well-Known Member
K i'll try putting some more CFLs in there, that or would they be ok if I just hang my light (240W LED https://gn.uk/led-grow-lights/gn-telos-8 ) up now? I don't want to give them too much light?

I've got the exhaust off at dark and on during light, I only have one timer, which is for light but might take it and use it to turn on/off exhaust for now.

I can't tell what the roots look like, how would I do that when they're surrounded by hydroton pebbles?

I think that you're right in the future I am just going to start seedlings in a small cup of coco until they're established and I know roots will grow out of net pots.

I also added a humidifier just now, hopefully things perk up.
 
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CannaCountry

Well-Known Member
This: "I am topfeeding them with tap water that's been diluted with distilled water to about 150ppm"

Feed your plants...they need food to grow, despite them being seedlings. Good luck friend.
 
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guitarguy10

Well-Known Member
CannaCountry said:
This: "I am topfeeding them with tap water that's been diluted with distilled water to about 150ppm"

Feed your plants...they need food to grow, despite them being seedlings. Good luck friend.
Click to expand...
Yes, they have 150ppm. Read my other thread, 1/8 nutrients resulted in severed nutrient burning, there are pics in this thread and that one.
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Should be around 300ppm for the little ones. Top feed with the nute water you should be able to suck out of the tub with a syringe or turkey baster. They aren't getting any nutes without roots down into the soup. Twice a day top feed.

You should be able to lift the net pot out to see if roots are showing yet. Or lift the lid and shine a light under there.

Roots2.jpg
 
OldMedUser

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Airwalker16 said:
The first main tap root has a really hard time getting a good start to branching out when put right into DWC. The tiny titty bitty hairs get covered by water and are damaged so it tries to just keep growing longer and longer with no real branching.
Click to expand...
50 DWC grows under my belt and I've never seen such a phenomenon. YMMV tho.
 
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guitarguy10

Well-Known Member
I'm not trying to argue with anybody, I'm just getting conflicting information. I was feeding them about 300-350ppm nutrients (about 1/8-1/4 strength) and I was told by several people in the other 2 threads to stop immediately that was too much.

I am using tap water (and have no option to use RO water) which is already hot at 200ppm (well 189 according to the city) to which I had added like 1/8 nutrients to make it 300-350ppm then a bunch of ppl told me i had to stop immediately and give them no more then 150-200ppm, so I diluted down my solution with distilled water until it was at about 150-200ppm, and now I'm being told to go back up to 300ppm? Which is it?

I have been topfeeding, that's what I've said (numerous time I believe) that that's what I've been doing. I'm not trying to sound facetious or ungrateful it's just that I've said multiple times that I am already doing the thing that you're telling me to do.

I'm sorry if I sound rude or ungrateful, I assure you I am grateful for all the help, I am just confused now, not to mention frustrated (which is nobodies fault but this is just turning into a mess).
 
rkymtnman

rkymtnman

Well-Known Member
guitarguy10 said:
I was told by several people in the other 2 threads to stop immediately that was too much
Click to expand...
your leaves are telling you that. one of those pics is severe nute burn (like half the leaf).

i'd think about a quick 12 hr flush with distilled and then try the 150ppm.
 
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CannaCountry

Well-Known Member
guitarguy10 said:
Yes, they have 150ppm. Read my other thread, 1/8 nutrients resulted in severed nutrient burning, there are pics in this thread and that one.
[/QUOTE

If 1/8 is burning them, make it 1/16...but rest assured the hydroton isn't lending anything to the plants, and neither is 150ppm water. In fact what makes up that 150 ppm?...NPK or is it Ca or Mg or Fe or something else all together?. But you do you...I'm just a person sitting in a chair, far removed from what you're doing. As to the varying answers and opinions you're getting...were you expecting 100% consensus? We all have opinions and you've opened up the can for us to give them, as differing as they may be. You're the grower...make the call. Good luck.
Click to expand...
 
MrGreenFingers99

MrGreenFingers99

Well-Known Member
guitarguy10 said:
I'm not trying to argue with anybody, I'm just getting conflicting information. I was feeding them about 300-350ppm nutrients (about 1/8-1/4 strength) and I was told by several people in the other 2 threads to stop immediately that was too much.

I am using tap water (and have no option to use RO water) which is already hot at 200ppm (well 189 according to the city) to which I had added like 1/8 nutrients to make it 300-350ppm then a bunch of ppl told me i had to stop immediately and give them no more then 150-200ppm, so I diluted down my solution with distilled water until it was at about 150-200ppm, and now I'm being told to go back up to 300ppm? Which is it?

I have been topfeeding, that's what I've said (numerous time I believe) that that's what I've been doing. I'm not trying to sound facetious or ungrateful it's just that I've said multiple times that I am already doing the thing that you're telling me to do.

I'm sorry if I sound rude or ungrateful, I assure you I am grateful for all the help, I am just confused now, not to mention frustrated (which is nobodies fault but this is just turning into a mess).
Click to expand...
When people are telling you to feed at 150ppm they are not including the ppm of your water, so if your water is 150ppm to start with and people are telling you to feed at 150ppm then your total ppm will be 300!
I cut a hole in the bottom of my 6inch net pot and then turn a small cloning net pot upside down over the hole I just made, place the rock wool cube with my germinated seedling on top of it, this way there is a direct route for the taproot down to the res, no clay pebbles to go through.
Sorry not the clearest of pictures but hopefully you get what I mean.
20190905_182738.jpg
 
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guitarguy10

Well-Known Member
I figured I would update my situation in case anyone was interested.

My plants have remained stunted, they are on their third set of leaves but all the leaves are tiny and it has not been growing.

So I finally gave in and slowly removed the hydroton one pebble at a time trying to remove the plant doing as little damage as possible to them. They all had roots that were maybe an inch or so long, in other words the roots weren't even close to penetrating the net pots to access the water in the reservoir. Clearly this has been the problem.

So I put these plants at the bottom of empty net pots and did my best to get the roots to come out of the bottom so that they will now have access to the reservoir and then covered the rwc with hydroton to support the plant.

I realize that having done all this to these already young and fragile plants may end up killing them, but I planted them over 4 weeks ago and they're like 1" tall so I was about to scrap this grow and start again in coco. It has been about a day since I did this and they haven't changed yet (which is a good thing cuz it means they're not dead).
 
shiva71

shiva71

Well-Known Member
Ive only one dwc grow but it seems clear to me, if your rez water isnt up to/above the bottom of your netpot, and youre watering from top (how often?) its gonna be dry in the netpot, where your roots are. There simply isnt enough water around for the roots, hence the sloooow growth.
Im at a similar stage to you (2 weeks). I have the rez level slightly above the bottom of netpot so with the bubbling that should keep the bottom of the hydroton moist. Also have a feeder pump going, into the netpot which i have on just for 10 mins 3 or 4 times a day, just to keep the environment in the hydroton plenty moist for the roots. My girl seems to be doing ok.
Get some h2o to those roots man!
 
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