'I'm appalled': Lawyers alarmed as Ottawa gives more powers to U.S. border officers at Canadian airports

gb123

Well-Known Member
Concerns are mounting over added powers Ottawa has granted U.S. customs officers to strip-search, question and detain U.S.-bound travellers — on Canadian soil.

The changes are part of Canada's new preclearance act, which the federal government says will enhance border security and make travel to the U.S. easier.

Also watch: Next steps for Canada's immigration system (Provided by Global News)










But Pantea Jafari, an Iranian-Canadian immigration lawyer, fears it could make travel more difficult for her.

That's because the act gives U.S. customs officers in Canada broader interrogation powers — at a time when the U.S. has toughened its stance on immigration and has increasingly hostile relations with Iran.

"I will not allow a border officer to have access to me and have unfettered right to question me to no end," said Jafari, who's based in Toronto and serves many Iranian clients.

Since the preclearance act took effect in August, she has stopped travelling to the U.S. and says the country's current standoff with Iran has only strengthened her resolve.

"My concerns of going to the U.S. have now 100 times increased."

Also watch: Flawed system: Canada’s family reunification program comes under fire (Provided by Global News)










Preclearance act explained
Canada's new preclearance act overrides a previous agreement with the United States that allowed travellers to clear U.S. customs in preclearance zones at Canadian airports, before flying across the border. Eight major Canadian airports already have preclearance areas — and the new act paves the way for more zones involving all modes of transport.

Proponents say preclearance offers many benefits, including allowing Canadians to clear U.S. customs in their own country.

"They land in the U.S. as a domestic passenger, so you don't have to go through long lineups," said Gerry Bruno, co-chair of the Beyond Preclearance Coalition, an industry group supporting efficient Canada-U.S. border travel.

While they don't dispute the benefits of preclearance, some immigration lawyers claim the new act could jeopardize Canadian rights.

The big concern is that American preclearance officers could now further interrogate Canadians who withdraw their application to enter the U.S., perhaps because they feel uncomfortable during a customs inspection.

Previously, law-abiding travellers could simply leave and return home, because they were still on Canadian soil.

Now they could be detained — even handed over to Canadian authorities to face charges — for refusing to answer questions about why they're withdrawing.

"You say, 'I think you're racially profiling me and I'm offended. I don't want to go to your country, I want to leave,'" said Calgary-based immigration lawyer Michael Greene. "[U.S. officers are] entitled to examine those reasons and if they think you're not being truthful, they're entitled to detain you."

Government defends changes
Jafari said the new rules are particularly concerning for racialized populations, such as those of Middle Eastern descent, who could be targeted for questioning.

"We're the ones that are deemed the threat, right; the domestic threat of some sort that they need to data mine."

Public Safety Canada said the withdrawal rules were revamped to prevent bad actors from probing preclearance zones in search of a weak entry point.

"Allowing a traveller to withdraw without any type of examination creates challenges in terms of border security," spokesperson Tim Warmington said in an email.

He added that U.S. preclearance officers questioning travellers who opt to withdraw can't "unreasonably delay" them.

But what constitutes an "unreasonable" delay could be open to interpretation, argues Greene.

"When you look at it from the U.S. perspective of wanting to protect the security of the country, that could result in some very extensive questioning," he said.

Protected by Canadian rights?
Bruno said that law-abiding travellers shouldn't encounter problems at the preclearance zones, and maintains that it beats clearing customs in the U.S., where you "can't withdraw."

"You're there. You're subject to U.S. laws," he said.

U.S. preclearance officers in Canada must follow Canadian laws, including the charter and Human Rights Act. In 2017, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau made this point when defending the new act — before it had become law.

"There is extra protection," he told The Canadian Press.

However, Canada's privacy commissioner has argued that protection appears to be "hollow" due to Canada's State Immunity Act, which grants the U.S. government immunity in most cases.

"A Canadian who believes a U.S. customs official has broken Canadian law has little recourse in the courts," states the Office of the Privacy Commissioner's website.

Right to strip-search?
Immigration lawyers are also concerned that under the new act, U.S. preclearance officers can now strip-search Canadian travellers.

Public Safety spokesperson Warmington said that U.S. officers must have reasonable grounds to do the search and that it will only happen in rare circumstances "where Canadian [border] officers are unable to respond or decline."

Immigration lawyer Len Saunders said his concerns with the act are compounded by the fact that some customs officers appear to be getting tougher at U.S. land crossings along the country's northern border.

In 2019, U.S. Customs and Border Patrol doled out almost double the number of five-year bans to travellers crossing from Canada, compared to 2018.

"When the Americans are treating Canadians like this on American soil, why would you allow them so much autonomy on Canadian soil?" said Saunders, whose office sits close to the Canadian border in Blaine, Wash.

"I'm appalled by what the Canadian government has agreed to."

Travellers who feel mistreated can submit feedback to a "preclearance consultative group" set up to provide oversight, said Warmington.

He also pointed out that Canadian customs officers will have equal powers in U.S. preclearance zones.

Canada currently has no preclearance zones in the U.S., but Warmington said the government is "exploring the potential."
 

gb123

Well-Known Member
a link?.......... its there for you to read...Google is your friend and works


so even if you decide not to go lol

"could now further interrogate Canadians who withdraw their application to enter the U.S.,"

and

"A Canadian who believes a U.S. customs official has broken Canadian law has little recourse in the courts," states the Office of the Privacy Commissioner's website.
 

TrippleDip

Well-Known Member
How is this different than what was already in place in any way. If you go through customs in the us then you are still on us soil, can you really turn around and leave as the article implies? "Previously, law-abiding travellers could simply leave and go home, because they were still on Canadian soil." Where is there us customs on Canadian soil. You always pass Canadian customs first then us customs. Fake news.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
How is this different than what was already in place in any way. If you go through customs in the us then you are still on us soil, can you really turn around and leave as the article implies? "Previously, law-abiding travellers could simply leave and go home, because they were still on Canadian soil." Where is there us customs on Canadian soil. You always pass Canadian customs first then us customs. Fake news.
At the border or in the airport when the US agent asked you questions you could withdraw your application and return to 'Canada'. With the new format they can hold you and process you as if you were on American soil.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
And I am an (relatively) old white guy and I am hesitant because of the "Have you used marijuana?" question. I would be crossing at a border station so if they do not accept my answer of "No." they could detain me and if eventually decide to let me go fine me and not allow me in for five years. At one time if you feel unsettled you would just say that you are withdrawing your application to enter and return to safety. Maybe a change in administration there (can we call for a regime change?) things will get better.
 

chex1111

Well-Known Member
Why are we giving up our rights and freedoms with legalization? It comes with strings attached that the Gov or police now has rights to search and detain, when they previously did not. This summer I had a cop jump out from behind a truck getting towed and stop me in the middle of the highway. He interrogated me about where I was going, where from, do I have cannabis on me? Do I work in the industry? How many lights are at the last show you saw? He looked around my truck as much as he could. I asked if I was being detained or free to go? He let me go.

You can get stopped on the highway any time now, for no cause. The police can follow you back to your house and search under the new drinking driving laws also. So whats so liberal about that?
 

CalyxCrusher

Well-Known Member
Why are we giving up our rights and freedoms with legalization? It comes with strings attached that the Gov or police now has rights to search and detain, when they previously did not. This summer I had a cop jump out from behind a truck getting towed and stop me in the middle of the highway. He interrogated me about where I was going, where from, do I have cannabis on me? Do I work in the industry? How many lights are at the last show you saw? He looked around my truck as much as he could. I asked if I was being detained or free to go? He let me go.

You can get stopped on the highway any time now, for no cause. The police can follow you back to your house and search under the new drinking driving laws also. So whats so liberal about that?
It's far easier to convince people to willingly give up rights and freedoms using the guise of safety and security.
 

Hust17

Well-Known Member
Let’s close trades with America!!

Fuck em! If they want to shit talk us at any chance they can get, let’s just ship our oil somewhere else or refine it here. They need us a hell of a lot more than we need them. There’s no way the world would side with them over us, we would be the golden nation that everyone wants to be, away from any American influence.

FUCK YOU AMERICA, FUCK YOUR PRESIDENT, AND FUCK YOUR CORPORATIONS!!
 

Egzoset

Well-Known Member
Salutations,

Google is my friend.
Google Search, maybe. Google News on Cannabis certainly not as the smell of tainted bias feels just too obvious, even when dealing with sources we'd normally expect to be objective!

:wall:

As a straightforward test pay attention to sources where you can successfully manage to post a single anonymous comment which shall stay on plain display despite some fair amount of rational criticism, while in fact CBC and peers articles retained by Google News repeatedly proved being obvious propaganda tools with heavy "moderatorship" on top of a strong "editorial" line.

For example only a few weeks ago on CBC a vulnerable audience was "informed" that the canadian ban originated from the sixties, with zero participant caring to correct such misleading statement, apparently... Which is a legacy of TrudeauManiacs who actually prefer not to evoke its bigot roots dating back to Victorian-age "science", still guiding Québec's Collège des Médecins today and more particularily so-called total abstainance "re-hab" warriors and their friends, all too satisfied to blame suicide on cannabis even when it was accessorial at best, euh... Too bad i must try to stick to the announced topic as there would be quite a lot of criticism to have right there!

:shock:

Why are we giving up our rights and freedoms with legalization?
I figured it results from a religious-like self-serving mediatic convergence of factors as those from above, likely explaining why back in 2015 neither "decriminalization" nor "legalization" actually meant what the average voter ever thought it could mean:

About INCIDENTAL Légaleezation - From 2015 Liberal electoral platform [480x360] .PNG
The goal here was to get everybody confused in hope to gain the power of a majority even if it was based on the will of a minority. In my province it's become "incidental" indeed if you're looking for a trusty relationship with your dealer, to say the least... While we wait to be told how many billion$ of public money got spent on "punishment" and policing it's still a farce when it comes to Public Health and now the cat is out of the bag, or the rabit out of the hat of Canada's most talented illusionist: e.g. Civil Asset Forfeiture:
VC: Province seeking to seize properties associated with Squamish cannabis dispensary (2020-Jan-16)​
VS: Province seeks millions in properties, cash tied to illegal pot shops (2019-Dec-22)​

One significant key being "Chad William Jackett" i guess.

In any case Trudeau's "Légaleezation" is about further vilification intended to reverse the traditional safety reputation of cannabis, trying to induce a level of fear and suspicion supposed to "save children" from inside...

Good day, have fun!! :peace:
 
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chex1111

Well-Known Member
Salutations,



Google Search, maybe. Google News on Cannabis certainly not as the smell of tainted bias feels just too obvious, even when dealing with sources we'd normally expect to be objective!

:wall:

As a straightforward test pay attention to sources where you can successfully manage to post a single anonymous comment which shall stay on plain display despite some fair amount of rational criticism, while in fact CBC and peers articles retained by Google News repeatedly proved being obvious propaganda tools with heavy "moderatorship" on top of a strong "editorial" line.

For example only a few weeks ago on CBC a vulnerable audience was "informed" that the canadian ban originated from the sixties, with zero participant caring to correct such misleading statement, apparently... Which is a legacy of TrudeauManiacs who actually prefer not to evoke its bigot roots dating back to Victorian-age "science", still guiding Québec's Collège des Médecins today and more particularily so-called total abstainance "re-hab" warriors and their friends, all too satisfied to blame suicide on cannabis even when it was accessorial at best, euh... Too bad i must try to stick to the announced topic as there would be quite a lot of criticism to have right there!

:shock:



I figured it results from a religious-like self-serving mediatic convergence of factors as those from above, likely explaining why back in 2015 neither "decriminalization" nor "legalization" actually meant what the average voter ever thought it could mean:

The goal here was to get everybody confused in hope to gain the power of a majority even if it was based on the will of a minority. In my province it's become "incidental" indeed if you're looking for a trusty relationship with your dealer, to say the least... While we wait to be told how many billion$ of public money got spent on "punishment" and policing it's still a farce when it comes to Public Health and now the cat is out of the bag, or the rabit out of the hat of Canada's most talented illusionist: e.g. Civil Asset Forfeiture:
VC: Province seeking to seize properties associated with Squamish cannabis dispensary (2020-Jan-16)​
VS: Province seeks millions in properties, cash tied to illegal pot shops (2019-Dec-22)​

One significant key being "Chad William Jackett" i guess.

In any case Trudeau's "Légaleezation" is about further vilification intended to reverse the traditional safety reputation of cannabis, trying to induce a level of fear and suspicion supposed to "save children" from inside...

Good day, have fun!! :peace:
Sounds like some skids being captain obvious about it. If you rub it in the authorities faces you can expect recompense.
 

Cannasaurus Rex

Well-Known Member
Where is there us customs on Canadian soil
UMM at 8 points of entry all major airports have US 'soil' in our terminals where US customs pre-screens entrants to the states, since like 9-1-1. Canadians do not pass thru our own customs when leaving our own country, just like America btw TSA is not u.s. customs.
 

OldMedUser

Well-Known Member
Let’s close trades with America!!

Fuck em! If they want to shit talk us at any chance they can get, let’s just ship our oil somewhere else or refine it here. They need us a hell of a lot more than we need them. There’s no way the world would side with them over us, we would be the golden nation that everyone wants to be, away from any American influence.

FUCK YOU AMERICA, FUCK YOUR PRESIDENT, AND FUCK YOUR CORPORATIONS!!
Canada would shrivel up and die if we cut off trade with them. They are the only ones buying our oil at 1/3 the world price as we don't have any way to move the oil to the west for asian markets or to the east to feed refineries there that are buying their oil from South America and Saudi Arabia. It's the fine people of Canada shooting themselves in the foot by fighting against pipelines that will enrich every Canadian once they get thru.

Thanks to the lack of foresight by the Conservative party here in Alberta for the 44 years they were in power we never built the desperately needed refineries that could have prevented this bottleneck in the first place. It's because we're trying to pipe diluted bitumen from the tar sands that the protests are so vehement. If we were shipping value added finished product that pipeline would have been finished by now.

Now they're back and screwing over the poor to balance the budget while filling the trough to feed the corporate piggies that got them back in power. Almost 5 billion to subsidize the oil industry's lack of profits while cutting back education, mental and physical health and all levels of social services. Like no more cost of living increases for welfare and AISH recipients. Only $30 every quarter but that extra $120 at the end of the year means a great deal to those with so little.

With a lead time of 7 - 10 years to bring a new refinery on line there's no quick fix there either.

America is on it's way to being a 3rd world country and will drag us down with them. It's going to take a whole new system of governing to fix their mess and it's likely to involve a lot of bloodshed.

“The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is its natural manure.” Thomas Jefferson
 

Hust17

Well-Known Member
Basically get the pipeline done and we can say fuck you ‘Merica!

I’m not for hurting the environment, but it would be huge for Canada as a whole to get that done.
 

chex1111

Well-Known Member
UMM at 8 points of entry all major airports have US 'soil' in our terminals where US customs pre-screens entrants to the states, since like 9-1-1. Canadians do not pass thru our own customs when leaving our own country, just like America btw TSA is not u.s. customs.
"the machine has selected you"
 

WHATFG

Well-Known Member
"You say, 'I think you're racially profiling me and I'm offended. I don't want to go to your country, I want to leave,'" said Calgary-based immigration lawyer Michael Greene. "[U.S. officers are] entitled to examine those reasons and if they think you're not being truthful, they're entitled to detain you."
Wow...
 
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