randallb
Well-Known Member
I agree, lst evens the canopy and you keep the main cola.
Join my mixed Auto grow... Mephisto, Fastbuds, Royal Queen Seeds...
- Thread starter wil2279
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wil2279
Well-Known Member
I don't think that you will always ruin an auto's yield by topping, but I do feel that if you are topping, you are stunting the growth even if its only for a day or 2... which i personally feel in the end has to lower the yield even if it isn't by much. I feel that LST is a much safer route with autos. now since you can't really clone autos like photos... there is no real way to tell how topping ultimately affects the end yield. I say with autos though... to with the low stress training instead of the high stress topping method.
Manzanilla
Member
The leaves of the new growth looks small and deformed, is that normal?
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
If you read my earlier post I said "I would never top an auto. I tried once. I also took the fan leaves off. God what a pathetic plant that grew. I wanna say it did 14 grams but it may have been 7 vs her sister who did around 100g." and this was 100% opinion I did not intend it to be interpreted as fact. As far as topping autos reducing overall yield, I do believe that to be fact. Autos run on a genetic timer and anything you do that reduces amount of vegging the plant does, reduces the plants overall size and potential for yield. With photos you can top as many times as you want, they can just spend more time vegging and ultimately become a bigger better plant. With autos you cant get back the vegging potential lost when you top them.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
The only way to truly compare would be to do a large sample size of the same strain of autos. Say a dozen topped and a dozen LST. Maybe even more. Most autos I have seen that have been topped produce a pretty small plant. Yes they may have some fatass kolas. But I have seen LST autos produce fatass kolas as well and in my opinion, more of them. I cant tell you how many times I have read that HST like topping can and typically does reduce yield because they cant spend an extra week in veg recovering. And Im not even saying HST will ruin yield. It did for me the time I tried it but I took to many fan leaves off as well. With a photo it would have been fine, an extra week or two in veg and it would have been a beautiful plant. I do believe topping will reduce yield by say 10-30%. Is that ruining yield? No. But who doesnt want an extra 10-30% .
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
Exactly. Best of both worlds. Save the HST for photos, you can just leave them in veg longer and they will recover and be better than ever.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
Personally I would call your topped auto a pretty small plant. But genetics could be a big part of that. A couple of my plants are very small with main stems about the size of yours. But many of my plants have these giant tree trunks.
MATTYMATT726
Well-Known Member
Well seeing as you don't know me, you'd be wrong about my plant. My plant looks small because temps are in the low to mid 60s for winter. Cold = slow growth and smaller plants than usual. The strain is a generation 7 strain, up to 210 grams a plant average and a journal on AFN shows over 7 oz to the strain. Also, there are a few ways that have been journaled to prolong veg on autos or atleast maximizing growth during veg. So again your thoughts on topping slowing and reducing yeilds are purely speculations. That being said i really couldn't cate less for anyone else's plants but my own so whatever works for you does. Just don't steer people the wrong way because you believe in your way.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
Temperature makes plants look small? No. Your plant IS small. Temps, topping, nutrients, lights, whatever the reason/s, it IS small. That is fact. Sure you may be able to prolong/maximize veg growth a bit, but damaging the plant is most definitely not a part of that. Topping is PHYSICAL DAMAGE. Its not speculation when youve done the resarch and your own experiments. And the fact that you put "up to 210 grams" and "a plant average" in the same sentence.... Is it UP TO, or is it AVERAGE? One or the other doctor.
MATTYMATT726
Well-Known Member
Are you retarded. Cold= SLOW GROWTH. Written above. Again i posted a nice like from a journal started here and taken to AFN on my 1st auto grow where i also topped it and the branches were breaking off and had string EVERYWHERE holding those less than topped buds up. You can't make it work and sucks for you but topping sure does up those fat buds. Sucks to be you.
MATTYMATT726
Well-Known Member
Youre also a clown. Because without cloning you cant3 have accurately tested topped vs untopped with the same strain. Autos can't be cloned so... kepp it moving r00kie.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
The only way to accurately test topped vs untopped with autos would be to do a large sample size of both, at least a dozen, and then compare final weigh ins. Im not saying you cant get big fat juicy kolas off a topped auto. Just saying topping will reduce overall yield by at least 10% compared to LST and who the hell wants to reduce their yield? As far as comparing photo period plants, final size and yield is dictated by how long the plant spends in veg. Every time you top photos, you leave them in veg longer to recover and get bigger. Theres plenty of information out there about why LST is better than HST for autos, look it up.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
Funny how Randallb and Wil2279 both agree with me yet you remain adamant that HST is best for autos. As far as I can tell you have done what two grows? And you have always topped your autos? Soooo your telling me topping is best when you have nothing to compare to. Personally I have grown autos with no training what so ever, HST in the form of topping, and LST. LST is definitely giving me the best results and most auto growers out there are finding the same for themselves.
Dendrophilly
Well-Known Member
Few pics of LST vs non-LST
These girls are gold leaf autos from ILGM. Both popped on November 20th. I’ve seen a lot of talk about let or not for autos so I wanted to do a comparison for myself and anyone else that’s interested. As you can tell the one on the left was the lst plant. It started flowering about 5 or so days...
www.rollitup.org
@JoeBlow5823
You're all over the place bro.
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randallb
Well-Known Member
You can certainly clone them. Done it a few times on light deprived lowers. It usually pushes the clock back a week or two, but they will flower nicely.
Dendrophilly
Well-Known Member
Grizz stretching out, took the transplant well.
Feed got a little too spicey for the auto spanish diesel. Transplanting to a larger pot in the morning.
Lemon Haze is a male im leaving in a corner somewhere; might not see him again.
Feed got a little too spicey for the auto spanish diesel. Transplanting to a larger pot in the morning.
Lemon Haze is a male im leaving in a corner somewhere; might not see him again.
wil2279
Well-Known Member
that Grizz is looking healthy. good deal.
wil2279
Well-Known Member
I don't have a lot of experience with autos. I only have a couple outdoor grows under my belt. I am just going with what i feel is obvious. if an auto goes from seed to harvest in say for sake of argument... 90 days. If you grow the auto out with very little to no stress you with get a certain yield. Now if you take that same auto and stress it in any way... lack of water, over watering, excessive heat, over feeding it, topping it... you then make that plant focus its energy on rehabilitating for at least a few days then i say you will get a smaller yield. Lets say you top an auto and it takes 3-5 days to recover from the "shock" of being topped. Well then that is 3-5 days that you lost in Veg. Well if your plant is in veg for say 5 weeks... well that is 35 days. Well then you just lost 8.5-14 % of your plants veg time. I don't see how you can argue that you are going to lose a little yield even if it isn't much in the end. Yes... topping will even your canopy but so does LST. Topping creates more bud sights but so does LST. There isn't anything you can accomplish with topping that you can't also do with LST with the exception of stunting your plants growth by stressing it too much. Now if you are growing photos i think topping makes a lot of sense. but you can veg your photos as long as you like before flipping to flower. This is just my opinion. If someone else has a method that works for them... I say great. As a newer grower i think it is good for people to hear from all kinds of growers so they can find what works for them. If you like topping autos, awesome... do what works for you. I am just saying that as far as my grows go... I will be using LST and no topping when it comes to autos.
JoeBlow5823
Well-Known Member
Very well put and I agree 100%. With topping, the plant has to redirect all of its energy that was headed to the top. This redirection takes time. The nodes still remaining after topping take time to start growing at their full potential. The plant cant simply "flip a switch" and start growing its branches out as fast as it was growing its topsite out. This results in lost veg time and a smaller plant overall. And really with autos, every extra day of vegging REALLY makes a difference in the final size. When you look at your "5 weeks of veg" the plant was really just a seedling for the first 2-3. So looking at it that way, you really only get 2-3 weeks of vigorous veg growth. Then if a plant is really only spending 20 days in veg, losing out on 5 of them could easily be 25% of your yield. Growth is exponential in the veg state.I don't have a lot of experience with autos. I only have a couple outdoor grows under my belt. I am just going with what i feel is obvious. if an auto goes from seed to harvest in say for sake of argument... 90 days. If you grow the auto out with very little to no stress you with get a certain yield. Now if you take that same auto and stress it in any way... lack of water, over watering, excessive heat, over feeding it, topping it... you then make that plant focus its energy on rehabilitating for at least a few days then i say you will get a smaller yield. Lets say you top an auto and it takes 3-5 days to recover from the "shock" of being topped. Well then that is 3-5 days that you lost in Veg. Well if your plant is in veg for say 5 weeks... well that is 35 days. Well then you just lost 8.5-14 % of your plants veg time. I don't see how you can argue that you are going to lose a little yield even if it isn't much in the end. Yes... topping will even your canopy but so does LST. Topping creates more bud sights but so does LST. There isn't anything you can accomplish with topping that you can't also do with LST with the exception of stunting your plants growth by stressing it too much. Now if you are growing photos i think topping makes a lot of sense. but you can veg your photos as long as you like before flipping to flower. This is just my opinion. If someone else has a method that works for them... I say great. As a newer grower i think it is good for people to hear from all kinds of growers so they can find what works for them. If you like topping autos, awesome... do what works for you. I am just saying that as far as my grows go... I will be using LST and no topping when it comes to autos.
wil2279
Well-Known Member
If you think about it like that it is even worse .. you are right. The first couple of weeks you just have a seedling with no real extensive root structure. It is spending more energy making roots that it is making leaves. So yes... If you are lucky you might get 3 weeks of good veg.